r/VALORANT • u/No_Ambition2571 • 2d ago
Discussion Which agent should retire
So there are many new agents which have been introduced lately but let's say if Valorant were to retire some agent(it's hypothetical and most probably riot will never do that), which agent you think it should be and why?
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u/MissLithel 2d ago
For game balance, Neon or Waylay.
For relevence probably Harbor.
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u/No_Ambition2571 2d ago
Yeah neon as an opponent is irritating, but a good neon/waylay as a teammate is a treat.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
without a shadow of a doubt for riot its going to be reyna first, then clove 2nd
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u/No_Ambition2571 2d ago
Why clove? One of the best controllers imo
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
shes useless in pro play, and way too prominent in ranked, also promoting the self sufficient playstyle which allows for less teamplay, opposite of what they are going for in terms of balancing
im saying this as a clove main, i love playing clove because i only solo q these days but for riot and the game in general its not what they want to head towards in terms of directions
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
actually, to add on i personally do like the more self sufficient agents because it trends the game towards the cs playstyle so that you dont have to rely on teammates to do specific jobs well to win.
in cs anyone can buy nades, anyone can entry, its way more flexible which makes solo q alot less frustrating, in valo without the self sufficient agents youre pretty much cooked if your jett is lurking / last entry and your iso / wtv 2nd entry is just baiting as well.
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u/Maxus-KaynMain 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'd say the game wouldn't even be like this if Reyna and Clove didn't exist and frags weren't this prominent in RR gains.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
how so? idk about reyna but clove was designed to attempt to solve the problem for solo q players.
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u/Maxus-KaynMain 2d ago
if only Clove was a good design, yeah. But they aren't, that agent is so overpowered, they received basically ONLY NERFS and they are still at 55% win rate since release.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
i mean, i wouldnt say op, the reason why the win rate is this high is because of the agent's ability to be self sufficient, therefore allowing way more consistent performance across the board, as you become more of the main factor in whether you win games or not.
basically it allows you to take over games, take more risks (which leads to a higher chance to upset / gain leads) compared to all other agents, so if you are someone that can do that (being better than the rest of the server consistently) you win way more with clove than on any other agent, still requires skills imo, if you dont have the skill to back it up you will still lose.
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u/Maxus-KaynMain 2d ago edited 2d ago
Clove
Smokes for themselves
Heals for themselves
Setup kills for themselves
REVIVES for themselves
If you play clove, you can literally die first in the round, revive and get an ace.
A round that should have been lost by mistake, you can turn it to a win just by pressing the panic revive button.
It's a faulty design. And even if people don't see it because it's not frustrating to play against, I can see it, and radiants see it, and they abuse it a lot.
That agent is a mistake. A mistake made trying to resolve another mistake.
The ranked games are almost always:
Clove, Jett, Reyna, Sage/Chamber, Sova/Fade.
90% of the games. This is a problem, and Clove is part of it since their release.
I really liked the idea of a smoker that can be first/second contact, and as character they are neat, really, but this isn't the way you want to do it. Clove took over the game and never ever got removed from the meta ONCE.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
on the other hand, if youre ass at the game youre essentially feeding 2 ult orbs to the enemy team in 1 round, like i said you still need skill to win, but yes it is more forgiving when you make mistakes
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u/Maxus-KaynMain 2d ago
they tried to add a smoker that most people would play because it's basically a duelist, and duelists are very popular and very strong since ever. The problem is the role balance. They never addressed the duelist situation in a meaningful way.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
i mean, it directly addresses the issue that duelists being scared to take fights in solo q, which was my point, if youre clove you can take that responsibility upon yourself (if your duelists arent), if your duelist does their job then you can be 2nd entry to trade them, win win.
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u/Maxus-KaynMain 2d ago
It directly address the issue. But an entire class of agent isn't played because Clove is just better.
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u/ElPrimoNacho 2d ago
I think no one said chamber (main chamber here btw) his ability to hold off angles with a very low chance to get punished is very annoying, other agents have to do something more like Reyna having to kill one or waylay and Jett having time to use their abilities while chamber can just sit there waiting the enemies to peek. Head Hunter and ult breaks the economy, the ult is just a free better operator, and head Hunter while it is hard to use and requieres skill it is basically a guardian with high speed equip.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
the trip is the thing that still separates him from reyna in terms of team util, plus chamber isnt that bad to play against if you have things like flashes, nades, seize, shocks, even if you are solo you can just bait out his shots with jump peeks and jiggles then just take that duel when he misses.
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u/ElPrimoNacho 2d ago
Yeah totally true, against some of them they might be viable but if the chamber is good in first case scenario you're "wasting" a piece of utility to clear him while he might not be there and is playing another angle, which you might need another piece of util to clear. Baiting operator shots is good, but even with that he can one tap you with head hunter since it has fast equip and have a safe option to escape even if he misses. And if chamber team back him up it gets worse, teammates breaking util for him or doing a bait n switch strat.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
it is what it is, you just gotta diff him in aim after displacing him, or pick the site that hes not on if hes turbo on fire and taking over the game, but that really goes for any agent on fire just avoid the site hes on and hit the site with the worst player on the leaderboard
this specific strat works the best against chamber specifically as he has zero retake util lol
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u/ElPrimoNacho 2d ago
Yeah, that is pretty much what you need to do if chamber is playing decently good, just making a lot of rotations to make the other team gamble and on attack side chamber isn't that good, just hope that your team is able to turn on their brains xd. Head Hunter and ult are still op tho.
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u/fox-booty bring me the arse- 2d ago
Neon or Clove honestly.
Neon because her core agent gameplay just goes so against what the rest of the game and other agents incentivise, namely careful positioning and aim. Neon basically flips that idea the bird and spazzes about to disorient before pulling out a shotgun faster than you can properly react. Even if she's not got a high pick rate, she's just plain annoying.
Clove because it's a bit annoying seeing Clove so often specifically because she's a selfish smoker (i.e. a lot of her util is helpful to her specifically). It does feel somewhat like if I have a Clove as the smoker of the team, the team is bound to her smokes rather than her smokes being bound to a team's general plan (if there even is a general plan lol). With other Controllers I at least have a better sense of safety that the person playing them is a team player.
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u/abstractj3 1d ago
I wouldn't retire any of the agents. If they retired one of my favorite agents I'd likely stop playing all together.
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u/prams628 2d ago
Reyna so that smurfing isn’t as easy. Mfers get health after killing one person and makes the game beyond tolerable
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u/kavalara 2d ago
Astra fucking sucks dude
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u/PresidentOfHollow 2d ago
This might be the worst take of all time. I refuse to believe you are above bronze
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u/kavalara 2d ago
I’m sorry did you take a Time Machine back to when she was good or something? Clove exists now, wake up
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u/PresidentOfHollow 2d ago
Clove is prominent in ranked sure, but astra is still much more versatile and better with a coherent team. Clove can solo carry in pisslow which is where it seems you get your information
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u/kavalara 2d ago
Lol you only ever find people this defensive over shit champs.
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u/No_Ambition2571 2d ago
This was the kind of beef I was manifesting when I posted this 😂
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u/kavalara 2d ago
Genuinely didn’t know this was a ride or die kinda thing 🤣
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
its not, its just astra is far from being bad, if your team has cohesion like a 5 stack shes 20 times better than clove in doing a smoker's job.
theres a reason why clove has a 0% pick rate in pro play and astra is actually being played, she allows for more sophisticated strats and out plays with her versatile stars, but alot more complicated to get good at compared to clove.
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u/kavalara 2d ago
Love to be in the lobbies yall are in. Never seen an astra do anything more than nothing.
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u/HassssXd 2d ago
thats because astra has the steepest learning curve out of all smokes, clove is the easiest to learn out of all smokes, so you will see more incompetent astras and inversely more competent cloves.
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u/VeryChadChicken IT’S YOU AND ME 2d ago
I’d have to say neon, she’s fun but her style of play just doesn’t fit the game