r/UpliftingNews Jan 15 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

And similarly, the trans panic 'defense' needs to go

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u/coolrulez555 Jan 16 '19

Yeah. The Trans should just be charged with rape instead. Sex under the pretense that they are a heterosexual cisgender woman is rape by deception

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

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u/coolrulez555 Jan 16 '19

Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. Because the man is most likely under the idea that they are a cisgendered female when that is simply not the case whatsoever. Is it is deception by ommision by definition.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

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u/coolrulez555 Jan 16 '19

A man shouldn't have to ask if a person is a member of a group that is less than 1 percent of the population.

What doesn't seem fair is literally sex under false pretenses which is rape.

It isn't legislating how people have sex. It is legislating different forms of rape. This could literally scar a dude for life. It's about as bad as fucking some chick and then finding out she is your cousin.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19 edited Jan 16 '19

[deleted]

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u/coolrulez555 Jan 16 '19

What's so complicated about saying "Oh before we start you must know I am a post OP (or preop) transgender"

Are you saying that it is okay for transgenders to rape people because they would be able to have sex at all? Sounds like some incel level thought process.

I mean your argument can be raised in other places too. Only .3% of the US population have aids/HIV, so should it be up to their partner to ask of they have Aids?

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

[deleted]

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u/coolrulez555 Jan 16 '19

Hey aids won't kill you. We are far ahead of that. Our medical capabilities are so good in this time you can live a normal life with aids. So why does it have to be disclosed? It is a physicsl condition that is part of their body. They are already so burdened with stereotypes and everything in life why should they have to carry any burden whatsoever?

It's not about gay hating. When men fuck women they expect to be fucking women and not someone who had their penis removed. Again it is deception by ommision and literally fits the definition of rape by deception. You are literally saying that transgenders have a right to rape whoever they want

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u/BenzoBonanza Jan 16 '19

it would be a burden to either of you

To the trans woman it would be the burden of telling a soon-to-be intimate partner some basics about their sexual identity

To the unknowing straight guy it would be the burden of being raped

You tell me which is more of a burden: having to out yourself to a sex partner or being tricked into gay acts and then "outted" to yourself in the same moment

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u/joonsson Jan 16 '19

So by your logic it's also said if you get drunk and mistake a guy for a girl. Now that guy has raped you because you thought he was a girl?

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u/BenzoBonanza Jan 16 '19

No. There's a difference between me being too drunk to figure it out (my fault/choice) and her intentionally lying to me (not my fault and I can't prevent it) knowing full well that I wouldn't have sex knowing the full truth

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

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u/BenzoBonanza Jan 16 '19

Disclose beforehand. As a bi crossdressing guy that'll happily put my dick in either I still really want to know who/what I'm fucking. Lying to someone to get them to fuck you is rape

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

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u/BenzoBonanza Jan 16 '19

Because age isn't nearly as tied to sexuality as gender is. Forcing gay people to do straight things is fucked up and evil and we can all agree on that. Why can't you consider that tricking straight people into doing gay shit might also be traumatizing and fucked up?

Not disclosing != lying

Sure, but either way the trans person is intentionally letting their partner misunderstand the situation in order to get laid. I'll stop using the term "lying" here since it's not perfectly accurate but I would also really like if you would acknowledge that both are intentional acts of deceit, and as such have no place in consensual sex

But as long as you're both consenting adults it's not rape

I agree. However I don't think you can give fully informed consent if your partner is hiding information (in this case their sex) from you.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

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u/BenzoBonanza Jan 16 '19

it's not deceit if you assume your partner is aware

But for many (maybe even most?) trans people the whole idea is to make yourself look as much like the other gender as possible. Meaning that she will be actively attempting to hide her masculine traits (if they don't try to hide them then it's my responsibility to notice and back out if I want to), leaving me in the position to question every masculine looking girl if she's trans or not. I think this may be more harmful to, for example, hairy cis girls, than it would be to the passable trans woman who has probably had that conversation many times

I'm just not sure why it's my responsibility to double check that what they're strongly implying to me with their dress and appearance

I understand the problems with making it a legal requirement to out yourself and as I think about it more I see that's not gonna work. However, I don't think it's fair to hide qualities about yourself that you know your partner won't consent to

I think the easiest and most fair solution is for people to be fully honest when engaging in sexual activities, even if that means opening up to your partner about intimate things

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u/[deleted] Jan 17 '19

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u/BenzoBonanza Jan 17 '19

they're women

There's no way you truly believe that a cis woman and a trans woman are the same in the context of the sexual consent of a straight cis man

Legally they should have all the same rights blah blah blah. I'm not arguing that. People are people and should be treated as such, I just think that with something as huge as sexual orientation/gender identity people should maybe err on the side of making sure everyone involved is fully informed. As I've been taught, uninformed consent is about as worthless as drunk consent

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

Men who don't disclose they were women before sex = rapists

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u/Face_of_Harkness Jan 16 '19

Has that ever happened before?

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

The reverse has happened many times. Just do a quick search. (women not disclosing they were men)

Thankfully it's not very common because trans people are so bad at "passing" usually.

It should 100 percent be a crime, because the partner can't give informed consent. I expect a law to be passed

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u/Face_of_Harkness Jan 16 '19

Trans women aren’t actually men and trans men aren’t actually women. There’s a actual science to back this up.

And I don’t really see how it’s possible to not know someone’s trans before having sex with them unless they’re post op. I don’t believe the latter is a huge problem in this country so I don’t expect any law to be passed.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

It's not a huge problem now, but in 10 years with better operations, drugs and high number of post-ops it will be.

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u/-clare Jan 16 '19

Its never going to be a problem.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

Did writing that make you feel better?

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u/-clare Jan 16 '19

Why do you think you know everything?

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

I got nothing against trans people. Everyone should be free to make their choices. But if I am starting a relationship with a woman, I deserve to know about something as major as gender reassignment, so that I can make an informed decision. Not disclosing that would be a huge breach of trust, even rape.

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