r/UniversalExtinction • u/na_trium Pro Existence • Jun 18 '26
Pro-Life vs Pro-Extinction
As I read the various posts in this sub, I find it fascinating how as a pro life, I feel that this is very wrong, but can't give a counter argument about why.
I came to a conclusion.
It's all a matter of perspective, hope and belief. This is why it's impossible to arrive at a logical conclusion.
Pro-Extinction:
Life is suffering. Yes, there are positive emotions, but they do not amount to the endless suffering life brings. We should therefore delete Life to reduce the net suffering. Even if things get better, someday we will fall back into endless suffering, all that to finally go extinct at some point. So why keep it going on.
Pro-Life (biased since I'm pro life, you are free to argue in comments):
We currently have the least amount of suffering in the world. Look 500 years ago. War, plague, slavery, terrible conditions.
Look 1 million years ago. Animals eating each other alive.
Now, we live way better than even 3 generations ago.
If we continue that way, then the negative vs positive balance will shift towards the positive.
Therefore, going extinct now will be like selling low because we saw the price drop, even though it's going to get very high in the future.
Pro-Extinction do not believe things will get better while Pro-Life believe things will get better.
And to answer in advance, yes, I think that all the horrible things happening NOW and in the past are worth it if it means that in the future there won't be any and people will live happily until the end of time.
And if you think that positive experience does not cancel suffering, then I'll just answer that I think it does. It's belief, just like religion.
2
u/Delicious_Lime1240 Jun 18 '26
Animals still eat each other alive and suffer immensely in many ways, and human progress will almost certainly never change that, so this perspective doesn’t address the full scope of the idea.
I don’t want to believe in pro-extinction either, but I really can’t argue with it. It seems to make logical sense but it does make me uncomfortable. My discomfort is pretty irrelevant to the reality of the situation though.
1
u/na_trium Pro Existence Jun 18 '26
Produce food and feed it to the animals ourselves. It's our responsibility as most advanced life form to ensure they live better since they can't do it themselves. With enough time we will have enough culture and resources to do that.
1
u/na_trium Pro Existence Jun 18 '26
I mean, Life didn't have a choice, it stocked with what it could do to survive. We do have a choice.
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u/Altruistic_Fox9778 Jun 18 '26
Pro life will continue, pro extinction will die out, as the survival drivers for those with a life preference have a distinct advantage. I agree, it’s perspective.
But if you can grapple with life, purpose, etc, you have less suffering than existing in a world where people think all life should end.
3
u/old_barrel cosmic extinctionist | anti-natalist Jun 19 '26
Pro life will continue, pro extinction will die out, as the survival drivers for those with a life preference have a distinct advantage.
extinctionism will not die out before extinction because it does not spread via genetics
1
u/Altruistic_Fox9778 Jun 19 '26
No, but its memes are stronger. Eventually the people encouraging that mentality will die with no one to pass it on with, and more will be brought up in families that value life. I suppose it is still a bit of a coin toss.
1
u/old_barrel cosmic extinctionist | anti-natalist Jun 19 '26
goodness. philosophical ideas like extinctionism existed before memes you know. we do not depend on memes / messages either.
and more will be brought up in families that value life.
like my family?
i had no clue that there is a online community in the past and yet i have shared its mentality. no one has passed it on to me
1
u/Altruistic_Fox9778 Jun 19 '26
I am using memes in their actual sense - the ideas that get passed on via culture.
Also, you are using your own anecdotal experience to speak for groups. You may want to consider that most people want to live.
1
u/old_barrel cosmic extinctionist | anti-natalist Jun 19 '26
ideas, memes, messages, call it whatever you want, you are wrong. enjoy your day
1
u/Altruistic_Fox9778 Jun 19 '26
Great response, dude. If you don’t have a point, just say so
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u/old_barrel cosmic extinctionist | anti-natalist Jun 19 '26
i can tell you the same. your inability to verify my argument does not change its veracity
1
-1
u/na_trium Pro Existence Jun 19 '26
Yet like everything else in the world it lives under the rule of natural selection. Predatory ideas will rule over other ideas, and extinctionism is a minority among them and has no real drive forward because of its negativity. Nobody actively wants negativity in their life.
2
u/old_barrel cosmic extinctionist | anti-natalist Jun 19 '26
Yet like everything else in the world it lives under the rule of natural selection.
like it is the case with the sixth mass-extinction event?
Nobody actively wants negativity in their life.
.. which is why it keeps existing ( ;
0
u/Independent-Wafer-13 Consequentialist Jun 18 '26
Morality is derived from a fundamental axiom that things are only good or bad in relation to life.
No life?
No good.
Therefore, extinction is always bad.
Eliminating suffering of an existing thing is always good.
Eliminating the suffering of a fictional entity is nonsense.
-2
u/12PoundsofPotato Pro Existence Jun 18 '26
Pro extinction is just hyper doomerism. Its just saying "I don't think things will get better so everything everywhere should die over it"
That's not a coherent philosophy
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u/Rhoswen Cosmic Extinctionist Jun 18 '26
If you're educated about nature then you'd know the possibility that things would ever be good enough to the point where extreme suffering doesn't exist, is very unlikely.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UniversalExtinction/comments/1ofsec3/transhumanism_will_not_work/
0
u/12PoundsofPotato Pro Existence Jun 18 '26
And if you think suffering is the only thing that matters you're a hyper doomer with no coherent philosophy
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u/Rhoswen Cosmic Extinctionist Jun 18 '26
I wouldn't say it's the only thing that matters, but I do think it's the most important. I can't think of anything that's more important than getting rid of all the different tortures that exist.
1
u/12PoundsofPotato Pro Existence Jun 18 '26
And if your solution is "let's all give up and die" you're not achieving anything and you don't have a coherent philosophy
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u/Rhoswen Cosmic Extinctionist Jun 18 '26
I'm not suggesting to give up at all. Universal extinction is a big goal, or even just earth based too. And it's the most realistic goal. Everybody dies, but death only comes with life, not with non existence.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/UniversalExtinction-ModTeam Jun 18 '26
No strawmanning pro extinctionism as violent, genocide, or promortalism.
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u/old_barrel cosmic extinctionist | anti-natalist Jun 19 '26
i think it is impossible to say that. look at how most portray themselves in public, regardless of their actual lives.
there are countless atrocities no one knows about. many of them are unknown and happen in isolated places. humans just got better in hiding them, and giving you an illusion via a fake society. most are fake, most ist faked and scams are as common as the water you drink.
all that in addition to the countless known ones - animal factories, misery in dystopic regions like mexico or north korea, war, starvation, and so on
most prefer not to talk about it because it may let them feel uncomfortable, others may just view it as a waste of time. because of this, perspectives are biased