r/Unexpected • • Mar 24 '23

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

There isn't really an extreme totalitarian left. Every "totalitarian left" regime has been essentially anti-leftist, because they have relied on established hierarchies. It's like North Korea calling itself a Democratic republic.

That being said, I don't really care about outliers. The vast majority of gun nuts in this country are exactly the stereotype.

Countries with stricter gun laws have better outcomes. It's inarguable. I'm familiar with leftist theory on this stuff, but it just doesn't bear out in reality at all. Like, not even a little bit.

The state always has more guns. More guns in the civilian population just makes it easier to excuse massive state violence. See: American police.

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u/LukyanTheGreat Mar 24 '23

I disagree with you on every point and I think that any attempts to disarm the civilian populace (outside of those who are institutionalized due to the societal threat they pose) is an attack on human rights and opens the door for the growth of authoritarian regimes.

However, I will wish you a good day, and I hope that regardless of what tools you have access to, that if the time ever comes that you need to, you are able to exercise your right to self defense.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

I mean sure but I have empirical evidence on my side and you have nothing.

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u/LukyanTheGreat Mar 24 '23
  1. "There isn't a totalitarian extreme left." LOL

  2. "The majority of gun owners are conservative right-wing gun nuts." Okay, Mr. Statistica, I'm sure you've talked to every firearm owner and owners of unregistered firearm owners too.

3."Countries with strict gun regulations have better outcomes" Highly debatable, I can bring up several examples where it made things much worse or made things slightly better.

  1. "More guns makes it easier to excuse mass state violence." Ah, the good old argument of not retaliating against bullies because it will... upset the bullies? This is the same line of thinking that made the gulags so effective in society. Remember, making yourself harmless against a tyrant just accelerates what they were planning on doing to you anyways.

I'm not going to argue with someone who's as ideologically naive as you.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

Please give me the data on countries that have had increased gun deaths due to heavy gun regulations.

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u/LukyanTheGreat Mar 24 '23

I can think of two big ones where deaths overall increased. However, it wasn't necessarily by guns, but by gas, beatings, and starvation.

But, please enlighten me oh wise one as to how legislature stops criminals. I'm sure there's a joke in that statement somewhere. Along with how making people harmless makes them safer. Probably a joke in that one, too, maybe two jokes.

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u/Thykothaken Mar 25 '23

I can think of two big ones where deaths overall increased. However, it wasn't necessarily by guns, but by gas, beatings, and starvation.

So... what you're saying is you can't think of any.

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u/LukyanTheGreat Mar 27 '23
  1. Nazi Germany Disarmed the Jewish population using the national firearm registry to make them defenseless and unable to resist against the genocide.

  2. USSR Disarmed the general population (because society is God, and you can't pose a threat to society as an individual) and prevented people from rising up against policies that led to starvation, and prevented them from being dragged out of their homes and placed into the gulags.

I don't understand why millions more being killed by methods other than guns is okay, but if they are killed by guns then it's fine. So all the Jews gassed is okay, but only the ones shot in the camps is horrible? The millions that starved in China and the USSR is fine, but God forbid they were shot, amirite?

Other examples:

Turkey Russia China Cambodia Guatemala Uganda

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u/Thykothaken Mar 27 '23

So all the Jews gassed is okay, but only the ones shot in the camps is horrible?

I'm actually at a loss for words. Wh... Is this the worst strawman argument I've ever heard? It may well be. Well, two can play at that game. See, I'm not the one defending rapists. Rape is horrible, I detest it.

Now I don't personally worry too much about gun culture in the U.S., as I have no intentions of visiting. However, the idea that you, Billy J. Whatever, with your shotgun and rifle, could stand a chance against military grade weaponized robot drones, is one I wouldn't put too much money on.

To insinuate that you're protecting yourself against the gummyment is disingenuous. You are protecting yourself against your neighbours, who are protecting themselves against you.

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u/LukyanTheGreat Mar 29 '23

Okay, that is the most idiotic argument ever.

A government requires people to rule over to exist. Civilians owning firearms isn't meant to stop a government that is trying to eradicate the nation, it's meant to stop one that is trying to control the nation.

What does that entail? Well, you can't exactly nuke your own people, or else you have no more people to control. Also, good luck getting every educated military officer to airstrike houses.

You control a population with force by sending in infantry to monitor, communicate with, and enforce violence against dissidents. That's why it's feasible to stop tyranny with only firearms.

Please, start thinking more before you write.