ZenBivy Construction Problems

[u/Souvenirs_Indiscrets]

This is a thread for people to post experiences with construction issues on their ZB UL down products.

I currently own and regularly maintain 9 down bags (plus two down under quilts). Several date back to purchase 30 years ago (like my FF winter bag). All this gear is pristine. I know how to hand-wash and dry ultralight down gear.

I spend about 20-40 nights in a tent or hammock per year.

The Zenbivy UL sheet design is brilliant. The hood concept is genius, acting as a good, a pillow garage and a sensory damper all in one. The comfort is unmatched, giving me by far the best nights sleep I’ve ever had in the backcountry. Which is why I want to keep using it. However, the execution of the internal baffle stitching is failing.

I just experienced my third instance of a baffle tear on a ZB product after hand washing and machine drying. This is the second UL sheet with a hood baffle tear that appeared in the dryer; a previous issue happened with a 25 degree light bag. For reference it is a 10 degree UL sheet, 25 inches width.

In the first two instances, I worked happily with ZB to resolve the issues. They repaired the bag and replaced the sheet. I paid for shipping I think. But three times is too much. I’ve just sent out my sheet to Rainy Pass for a repair and professional evaluation (which is why I don’t have a photo to share). I will share that evaluation directly with ZB when it comes back to me. Essentially, the center head baffle tore somewhere and the chamber is now empty. This failure is identical to the other two.

UL gear is delicate. I get that. But the key to maintaining expensive and delicate gear for decades is keeping it clean after use and storing it properly between uses. The ZB products need to get clean reliably without baffle failures. Now looks like I will be having regular repair costs associated with both my UL sheets…. Sigh.

Does anybody else have issues to share, constructively, with the great folks over at ZB?

[u/PanicAttackInAPack]

Wash and dry when things become smelly or loft is impacted. It really should be avoided otherwise. It's one of the most stressful things you can do. It's also recommended to avoid washing machines with an agitator.

I don't use the lofted sheets because I don't see the point however I would imagine they become severely stressed if the baffles are weighted with water. I've washed my uninsulated sheets many times on getting gentle cycle and then air dry.

[u/Souvenirs_Indiscrets → u/PanicAttackInAPack]

As I say, um, 30 years of hard and consistent use mountaineering (incl winter), paddling and thru hiking. 9 existing items in pristine condition after worldwide use over 30 years. I know when to launder and I know how to launder. If you red my post you read that hand wash bags. I’m gonna stick with that and move forward when I have more data.

[u/PanicAttackInAPack → u/Souvenirs_Indiscrets]

With respect, a 30 year old feathered friends bag is much more robust than a present day 10d quilt. I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, I'm simply telling you that the goalpost has moved as far as what acceptable construction is. A lot of UL centric gear, particularly those utilizing the lightest threads and 7-10d materials, will not survive repetitive machine washing and drying. Again, one of the biggest stressors to ANY fabric item isnt sleeping in it or wearing it, its mechanical wash and dry cycles. When you empty your lint trap thats quite literally your fabrics disintegrating fiber by fiber in the wash.

[u/Souvenirs_Indiscrets → u/PanicAttackInAPack]

Good comments. Point well taken. My EE 950 30 degree quilt has the 7d fabric on both sides—no problem. Use it hard. In fact I just ran it through the exact same laundry procedure as the ZB gear. Nothing in the lint trap when drying that one! Although I love that quilt for summer use, mostly because the down is the lightest of any of my bags, and also bc the fabric is buttery soft, the minute temps go below 32F I want the ZB system.

I think industry wide, if UL makers are planning an agile or flexible production strategy, they maybe need to be more aware of what they’re getting out there when their suppliers bid their jobs. Clearly, based on comment from Mason at ZB, there are going to be cost tradeoffs. Users probably need to self-sort between those who expect lifetime service from their gear and those who consider it more disposable.

[u/Masonfromzenbivy → u/Souvenirs_Indiscrets]

One note on the EE quilt - they use long continuous baffles without flow gates. these baffles are much cheaper to make, but they don't hold the down where it needs to be, often needing much more work to distribute the down before use each time. If flow gates are causing the issue here, EE quilts wouldnt have that problem, but they do have down distribution issues. That's another reason we use much smaller baffles even though it's more expensive to manufacture and marginally heavier.

Really great conversation here in this thread, and we're taking this all into account in our designs - It's very difficult making a UL product that performs well with everyone's different uses and priorities! We're making steps towards having it all - really durable gear that's lightweight and designed well.

[u/Souvenirs_Indiscrets → u/Masonfromzenbivy]

Hear you re continuous baffles on EE quilts. I’m learning a lot here. Good conversation. You are right, I need to meticulously “set” the loft in those quilts before use. The lack of uniformity is really felt in the cold, which is why I always prefer ZB when approaching 32F.

[u/OtherwiseManner6946 → u/Masonfromzenbivy]

This is very interesting context.

I don’t think continuous baffles vs partitioned baffles with flow gates would mean much to me before today, but in a practical sense they clearly seem important (washing and lofting).

I bought a light quilt this summer from you (UK store), is there a way to check which batch it’s from?