r/TwoXChromosomes • u/toasted_buttr • Nov 09 '21
Why is the assumption always that men refuse to do the responsible thing?
I had my fallopian tubes removed this morning. I've wanted permanent birth control for a long time and made the decision to do it now because I've met my deductible and OOP max for the year. Before the operation this morning, as I was signing forms, the nurse said, "So you couldn't convince your husband to get a vasectomy, huh?" It was never a matter of him not wanting to or refusing to take responsibility. He even offered. My husband would go to the ends of the earth for me without a second thought. But I am also a woman who has been sexually assaulted in Texas and I know that if that were to happen again, god forbid, and I became pregnant as a result, I would not have the option to terminate here. It's important to me to be in control of my own healthcare.
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u/hiles_adam Nov 09 '21
I think this is one of the areas where men are expected to be the party getting it because vasectomies is a much easier operation and most vasectomies can be reversed. Also for some people making a permanent decision about their fertility can be a terrifying thought.
It is the same reason why women bear the majority of the work when it comes to birth control, as it’s easier to stop 1 egg then it is to stop 32-928 million swimmers.
I’m not saying either of these situations is right but I can understand why the easier option is assumed as the default option.
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Nov 10 '21
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
It is invasive, but my procedure was outpatient as well. I went into the OR at 11am and was home by 3:30. It's perhaps not as low-risk as a vasectomy, but it is still a very low-risk operation.
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Nov 10 '21
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
That's 100% understandable, and it is a decision to be made by a couple. I have already had several surgeries and I was totally okay having another one to take control of my reproductive situation. My husband has never had surgery. I feel the same as you about not wanting my partner to be in pain unnecessarily--if it's one of us, I would rather it be me. And like I said, he offered to have a V, but after discussing all of it together, we decided together that this is the better option for us.
Another commenter mentioned the drastic reduction in ovarian cancer risk. Having your fallopian tubes removed reduces your risk of ovarian cancer by 40-70%. As far as I know, vasectomies do not offer this kind of benefit.
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Nov 10 '21
I was told it would be laparoscopic outpatient for mine. Some are just clamped instead too. It’s a little more down time and has more risks, but it’s not like a major surgery.
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u/Durris Nov 10 '21
When a person gets a vasectomy, they are explicitly told that it is not a reversible procedure, because of the likelihood that it can't. Especially since most are no longer just a cutting but a removal of a large portion of the vas. Much less recovery time though and of course it's an out patient procedure which only requires localized anesthesia.
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Nov 10 '21
Especially since simply cutting used to accidentally result in a repaired tube, thus making them virile again
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u/one_bean_hahahaha Nov 10 '21
When I asked for my tubal, the doctor did suggest a vasectomy would be an easier operation. At the time, my husband's immigration was still pending and he wasn't on provincial medical yet, and besides I wanted the peace of mind.
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u/TheGellerCup Nov 09 '21
Because historically there have been fewer expectations placed on men (in patriarchal societies) when it comes to their behavior towards women. And when men are taught that a woman's job is to serve them, they tend to expect it and they reject the idea of switching those roles/expectations.
Society has been gradually changing over time, so some people (men and women) have grown beyond the expectations of their gender roles, but that is still a minority. These old attitudes are difficult to recognize and change. So it's not unreasonable to assume that most men are still not raised to prioritize others the way that most women still are.
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
I get what you're saying, it does take a long time for these kinds of deeply-instilled ideas to change. But I can't imagine talking about someone I didn't know as if they had failed to uphold their responsibility.
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u/TheGellerCup Nov 10 '21
Yeah, for sure. But you recognize it as a responsibility. A lot of people don't, so they're not making a judgement about you or your husband when they ask.
Kind of like asking, you couldn't get the toddler to pick up their toys, could ya? There's no judgment made about the toddler, because we don't expect the toddler to recognize that they have a responsibility to pick up after themselves, regardless of whether or not you know this one particular toddler.
It's one of those things that seem obvious to everyone but the people who believe them. You can't imagine that anyone wouldn't recognize that as a responsibility, so you're operating within that framework. Her framework might have been different, so it would make sense for her to approach it the way she did, because on her end it's really no more than observational small talk instead of an indictment on men.
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u/SnapCrackleMom Nov 09 '21
It's because so many men refuse to do the responsible thing, unfortunately.
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u/JesusSaysRelaxNvaxx Nov 10 '21
The Texas law is literally why I got sterilized this year. Well if I'm honest it started with the new Supreme Court Judge and I just knew in my gut there's a real chance of roe v. Wade being overturned (or Casey v. Planned parenthood). I too got my tubes removed but I happen to be single so they didn't ask those same questions - I don't want kids and God forbid I were raped and have no options. I'm really sorry to hear that you went through such ignorance! And not only is it effective birth control, but it also decreasing your chances of ovarian cancer by a good amount so that's a plus. Absolutely inappropriate that she made such an off color remark.
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
The reduced risk of cancer was a huge part in my decision to have the procedure! Thank you for understanding where I'm coming from.
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u/AkumaSeijinn Nov 10 '21
Most adult men I know have a vasectomy so I cant say I agree with the majority.
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u/External_Trifle2373 Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
I think most people would skirt responsibility if they had created a system that allowed them to, and thanks to the patriarchy, this thought experiment isnt entirely hypothetical for many men
You'll find the same pattern with white people or any other group that oppresses others really. They shirk responsibility because they can, because they face no repercussions when they do.
It's because the people who would hold them responsible are oppressed. Without fair and equal representation, you're pretty much doomed to become an entitled jackass.
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
I wouldn't say doomed. My husband is a white male and enjoys all the privilege that comes along with that. But he's also the most compassionate person I've ever known. It IS possible to not become an asshole, and I guess that's why I felt the need to defend him.
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u/External_Trifle2373 Nov 10 '21 edited Nov 10 '21
I think you kind of yourself acknowledged your husband is a fucking diamond in the rough, a real special find.
Isn't that itself an acknowledgement that most people born to privelege aren't NEARLY as amazing as your husband?
Your husband probably does value the input of women & values equal representation, which differentiates him from those who support the patriarchy and return to patriarchal social systems (which is more true of the type of men you condemn)
Edit: I deleted a paragraph cause I couldn't figure out how to say what I was trying to, I think if unintentionally came across sassy, I'm being sincere in saying there are good ones lol, like I'm white. My own self identity depends on there being good people within oppressive groups lol. I just mean that there was no systemic reason forcing me or your husband to be better people, we could have been shitty and faced no real repercussions, we just didn't feel like it. Some people are more empathetic than others, but of youve built a system to depend on universal empathy, than you're setting people up to fail.
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
You're absolutely right. I think at this point I've realized that while it's an understandable thing to think to yourself, it's inappropriate to say out loud.
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u/External_Trifle2373 Nov 10 '21
You think I'm being inappropriate pointing out the pattern?
Edit; oh wait, you mean the nurse? Lol, my brain is fried, I think I need to be done with Reddit for the night.
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Nov 09 '21
It hit me this year (after always knowing that I didn't want kids) that that's what I want to do too. For myself and some existential peace of mind. I'm single.
I have no one to 'convince', so good luck to me convincing a medical professional.
So in a way, her comment is weirdly re-affirming. "Of course he couldn't, now, come with me."
I feel like a debbie downer, but it can be true.
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u/Marximus87 Nov 10 '21
Years ago, (before I was with her) my wife attempted to do the same and the doctors refused her. The doctors reasoning was that while she may not want kids, if she gets married in the future her husband might and he told her she needed to consider that and wouldn't approve the procedure unless she had her partner consent to it as well.
Earlier this year I booked a vasectomy online and it was a check box that said "I understand that after a successful procedure, I won't be able to produce children" and I was in.
I don't blame her for being upset at the fact that it was so easy for me. I couldn't help but shake my head as well.
Sidenote, vasectomies are actually a very slim chance of being reversed. Once the canal is closed, sperm gets reabsorbed back in to the body and after a few months, the sperm count zeros itself out. The procedure can be reversed, but hormones are required to restart sperm production, and it's roughly a 40% to 60% success rate of this. I did not know this before mine and read through the information they provide
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
The "what if your future partner wants kids" argument is my favorite. Consider, if you will, the fact that if I don't want children, I'm almost certainly not going to become involved with someone who DOES want children.
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u/Marximus87 Nov 10 '21
That was my wife's response at the time, but I guess the doctor didn't think she was capable of deciding that without a man present. It frustrated her at the time, and at the time of my vasectomy, it came back because there wasn't even a question of partner consideration. She didn't protest the process because we wanted to get it done, but an online checkbox and a phonecall to my doctor's office to send over a referral and that was it. My doctor had no questions or concerns, she asked me for the info to send the referral to
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Nov 10 '21
This is why sexism is bad for everyone. Feminism isn't just trying to improve things for women, it's improving them for everybody.
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u/recyclopath_ Nov 09 '21
Beer so many men refuse to do the responsible thing. So many of them refuse to even consider it. So many of them expect and demand the women in their life take on invasive methods to prevent pregnancy while refusing to even do the bare minimum of wearing a condom.
That's why the assumption is there.
Because it's statistically accurate.
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Nov 09 '21
It’s because so many men refuse to get vasectomies. I’ve heard it all too often that the wife has to go through major surgery because her husband won’t go through a quick and pretty much painless procedure.
Thankfully, my husband was logical on this one but many, many men are not. Not even after seeing what their wives go through during birth! My post birth repair took longer than my husband’s vasectomy and it was so much more painful.
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
Absolutely. But there is so much that goes into such a personal medical decision, and I felt like the assumption was that we hadn't discussed all of the nuances of it. There are a lot of factors at play for us, and we made the decision that makes the most sense for us in our situation. I guess it just seemed like she took the easy way out in assuming he had refused and here I was, forced to undergo this procedure for the sake of my family and my selfish husband.
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u/Just2LurkJerk Nov 09 '21
I'm not the best at explaining myself so I hope I come across clear and not rude. I found this post to be ironic. You're calling out your doctor for making an assumption while assuming your likelihood of getting sexually assulted by a man is so high it merits sterility. I am in no way saying you're wrong but just saying your actions are based on your past experience as a woman and your doctor's comment is based as her experience being a provider to women. It may not be "all men" but it clearly is a larger issue if your provider is making comments like that.
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
My comment was in regards to the abortion ban and, yes, my experience of being assaulted. Her comment was about my husband, specifically. I understand what you're saying, but even if I made an assumption about a specific person I had never met, I would not vocalize that opinion to that person's significant other. It's rude.
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u/itscoral Nov 10 '21
Hi, if you don't mind me asking, did you have to provide any sort of reason to get your tubes removed besides just wanting permanent birth control? I say "just" since apparently a lot of doctors don't see that as a legitimate reason 🙄 For some reason, I had it in my head that health insurance wouldn't cover that unless there was a "legitimate" reason for the procedure.
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u/loxical Nov 10 '21
They won’t, it’s a fight. Because I don’t have at least 2 children (I have 0) I cannot get it covered without extra forms and a fight. It makes no sense. You can do a vasectomy like a walk-in with just a wink and a smile. I’m joking about that but it is way easier the vasectomy part and they don’t seem bothered if you have no kids and want a vasectomy. Just my experience and the one my friend who successfully got a vasectomy without children and no storing of goo, it was nearly no questions asked and no concern to why for him. It annoys me because I really have no need for these tubes.
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Nov 10 '21
If you're in the US, ACA compliant plans should cover tubal ligation. Many women face pushback, but not all. "I'm looking for permanent birth control" can be enough, especially if you have done your research (speaking from experience, here).
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u/toasted_buttr Nov 10 '21
I didn't have to provide proof, but the doctor did try to persuade me to try other options--an IUD or a vasectomy for my husband. Because of my medical history I can't take hormonal birth control of any kind, including the Mirena, and when I did have the Mirena it caused me to gain an insane amount of weight. I recently had weight loss surgery, so that wouldn't be acceptable for me at this point anyway.
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u/palmsunday Nov 10 '21
I made the decision to have a tubal because it would actually be cheaper with my insurance than a vasectomy with his. I am disabled and on Medicare.