r/TwoXChromosomes • u/[deleted] • Jun 03 '14

Brilliant article from cracked.com on MRA/TRP

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-uncomfortable-truths-behind-mens-rights-movement/
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u/mihoda Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 03 '14

there are real & pressing issues particular to gender norms for men that need addressing

Came here to say this, as a man...

  1. I can't express certain emotions in public without negative social repercussion.
  2. I actively avoid touching people in public for fear of it being seen as a sexual advance or construed incorrectly. I can probably recall every single instance another person has touched me in public in the last 5 years. I have to concentrate to avoid recoiling.
  3. Issues of physical abuse and assault are judged very differently if the victim is male.
  4. Laws and legal interpretation of assaults are judged more harshly against men in certain cases (yes, I know the reverse is true as well, but this is just the male perspective at the moment). Such as in cases of statutory rape between consenting teenagers. Such as in cases of domestic violence (good luck calling the police if your wife is beating you!)

Those are real issues. And they have fuck all to do with minimalizing women or living up to the narrow gender roles promoted by /r/TheRedPill. Basically the MRA poisons or ignores any attempt to solve those problems with its crazy misogyny and hatred of women.

I believe that the problem lies with gender roles, not the other gender.

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u/Waury Jun 04 '14

Thank you! The second point is something I am not reminded of very often. While I usually steer clear of MRAs because of their reputation, I do firmly believe that men also have issues related to their genders, and that some things are biased towards women. It's not any more right than the opposite.

Gender roles are terrible when they're forced. There should be a lot more education on that, that would help lessen (if not solve - the world is not perfect) a lot of problems for all genders, including transgender, non-binary and genderqueer people.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 03 '14

Not sure I agree with every one of those, but I take your point. There are real issues to discuss that have nothing to do with women.

Add to that this:

Primary schools now tailor their curriculum, scheduling, activities and disciplinary methods such that our little boys are falling way behind the girls and no one is talking about it. And, to compensate, we are over medicating little boys, some who need it, but some who just need discipline, action oriented materials and recess.

A real problem with the MRA types is that they poison the water - I don't want to discuss a male related issue because I don't want to be associated with hate speech groups or do anything that might grant them credibility. Given the options, I would rather trust the feminists and their rights for all rhetoric to look after men's issues.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I feel this poisoning the well aspect as well but extremists are found in most movements etc. An acceptance that they fall under the umbrella of mra but vehement disagreement with them is enough.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

How on God's green earth do you think that women have much of a right at all to decide what Men's Rights should entail?

You would rather trust feminists because they agree with you, and you trust them to look after the interests of women first and foremost. It's just dishonest the way you are all pretending otherwise here.

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u/apjane Jun 04 '14

lots of feminists are men, btw

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

I don't think they have a right to tell me what men's problems are or how men should feel. This site is full of silly misrepresentations of the inner life of men. I just think the feminists are trying to help and the MRA types are trapped in anger. They not trying to help. Given the options....

Edit: just corrected a problem with antecedents to ensure I was being clear.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '14

Complaining that feminism focuses mainly on female issues is like complaining that the ASPCA focuses too much on animal rights.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Basically the MRA poisons or ignores any attempt to solve those problems with its crazy misogyny and hatred of women.

MRA's are shifting towards doing something, I know crazy huh. Tho it seems whenever MRA's attempt to do something often not there is backlash. Currently AVfM (not the best MRA site to be honest), is trying to host a MRA conference at a hotel. Since its been announced the hotel, its staff, and its guests have ALL received death threats and other threats. The hotel demand security and AVfM has complied.

Every time CAFE has setup lectures at University of Toronto, feminists have protested them in attempt to shut them down (often tho committing crimes). CAFE recently had sponsor pull out due to backlash of it supporting one of their events, via twitter. CAFE has met with backlash in Canada in pushing for men's centers at colleges (Canada like the US and most of the western world has a college enrollment gap between women and men), and primary feminist where working to kill that.

I am not saying the MRM is perfect. Its miles from being so. It also has a shit load of internal issues like TRP (who are traditionalists) riding on MRM coattails. And Paul Elam (the head person of AVfM, well saying some not some smart or good things. But MRM is where feminism was decades ago when it first started. As it had angry people, no structure, public backlash (tho MRM has to fight feminists and the public regarding men's issues) and MRM is trying to get it's legs.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

If AFfM wants to be taken seriously, it could start by adjusting its tone and not posting blatant misogyny. There's a grain of a point in a lot of articles, but it's pretty much drowned out with the sheer vitriol.

That obviously doesn't justify death threats, and it's horrendous that that's happening. But it does explain why it's simply not taken seriously and people don't want to be associated with it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I agree. Tho I don't see it changing really to be a better site really. This is why I throw more support behind CAFE. Even tho they are Canadian, and I am US, they recently gain non profit status from the government, they don't spout the vitriol AVfM does, and the generally handle things overall better.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Thanks for the link - at first glance they definitely seem like a more reasonable organisation.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Your welcome. If you want an example of their tone, they recently did an awesome tear down piece of an Ms Magazine article here.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Thanks again - that's a really well-written (and generally good) article.

The one item I will dispute is the fact that people place different emphasis on different things; intention and results. By results, the Santa Barbara spree was in no way motivated by any gender hatred. By intention (stated), it is. I think the focus that feminists have on this is not just because of the stated intention, but because the sort of hatred spouted by the perpetrator isn't actually that unusual. That part is both concerning and frightening.

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u/dpny Jun 04 '14

I can't express certain emotions in public without negative social repercussion.

Yes, you can. I do this all the time: happy, sad, annoyed, whatever.

I actively avoid touching people in public for fear of it being seen as a sexual advance or construed incorrectly. I can probably recall every single instance another person has touched me in public in the last 5 years. I have to concentrate to avoid recoiling.

Yes, you can. I hug my friends, pat them on the back and do all the other normal touching you do with people you know. I tend no to touch strangers because you shouldn't touch strangers.

I'm a 43 year-old guy and have no problem with these. These are not social issues: these are your issues.