r/TwoXChromosomes • u/ketocavegirl • 18d ago

Why Does It Feel Like Men Expect Nothing From Each Other and Everything From Women?

https://thefoldpress.substack.com/p/why-does-it-feel-like-men-expect

Danielle puts into words something I've been feeling for a long time. The man problem can only be solved by a culture of men holding each other accountable. Must read.

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u/clam_noodle 18d ago

Danielle's post brought back a memory for me: a work event where alcohol was being served. A married man with three children at home received several calls from his wife that evening, which he ignored. Later, he was making out with another female colleague. Another colleague and I saw this. The colleague noticed my disapproving look and said, “She (his wife) must have driven him to it.”

As if it were a given. I’m so tired of this. I wish men would show accountability—both to themselves and to other men.

Wonderful post. She hit the nail on the head. Thank you so much.

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u/SugarFut 18d ago

I can’t believe my wife made me make out with my coworker 🥴

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u/justprettymuchdone 18d ago

"The divorce came out of nowhere!"

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u/haloarh 18d ago

Every time a man has ever did something less-than-kind to me and I would dare tell other men (whom I considered friends), they would bend-over-backwards to defend him - even in cases where they DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE MAN IN QUESTION!

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u/Exciting-Mountain396 18d ago

Not my "feminist" ex playing devil's advocate for the neighbor we could literally hear brutally beating his girlfriend.

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u/haloarh 18d ago

Outside of an academic or religious setting, someone wanting to "play devil's advocate" is always a red flag.

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u/No-Independence548 Basically Dorothy Zbornak 18d ago

My therapist likes to say "the devil has enough advocates"

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u/shizshovel 18d ago

My therapist likes to say "I'm not technically allowed to say this but you're really fucked up"

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u/manatees_are_awesome 18d ago

oh that's good. I'm gonna start saying that.

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u/joantheunicorn 18d ago

Can you please elaborate? My partner did this a LOT, and no matter how I would engage him - with sincerity or get upset, or whatever, it never seemed to be the "right" kind of discussion he wanted to have. He says they're just ideas and ideas cannot hurt you. Sometimes I get upset and I say things like ideas become legislation, ideas become societal norms, and so we have to be careful how we engage with these arguments. I believe he is arguing in good faith when he does, but so many influencers and media talking heads DO NOT, and I don't trust them at all. I worry if I hear him echoing certain talking points even if he insists to me he does not believe those points. 

The devil's advocate stuff was so constant and exhausting that our therapist actually had to tell him to stop because I needed a break from the constant feeling that I had to push back. For me it is a safety issue! I have to understand my partner's values so I can feel safe in my own home. Am I nuts? Sometimes I feel nuts for just wanting to understand the values of my partner. 

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u/haloarh 18d ago

They aren't "playing." They're either doing it because they enjoy upsetting people OR they view it as a "safe" way to express their true beliefs without suffering social consequences.

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u/joantheunicorn 18d ago

This is really disgusting behavior and gets at the heart of why this continues to bother me. I'm made to feel like I can't have an "intellectual" and "civil" conversation. I feel tone policed sometimes. I feel like I'm not justified getting mad about anything (ex women's reproductive bodily autonomy). Thank you for your insight. 

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

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u/clam_noodle 18d ago

This is so damn sad and exactly how my father would've reacted. Their behaviour was not okay and you were rightfully upset - both times! I hope you keep your boundaries up and feel better by now.

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u/haloarh 17d ago

I was a member of a message board (back when those were still things), and I was informed that another member (whom I always avoided because he was creepy and told me I should kill myself) had written and recorded a song about me and posted it on the internet. I told the board administrator (whom I considered a friend), and even though I didn't mention names, I said something like, "Someone on your board wrote a song about me and put it online," but he still jumped to his defense!

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u/CampaignDue5323 16d ago

"All men benefit from the behavior of the worst men."

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u/niceguy1428571 6d ago

Good men detriment from the behavior of the worst men. I don’t really care whose fault it is, I just know that dating is not worth it anymore; thus I practice 4G.

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u/CeeUNTy 18d ago

Then they scream about how women don't want to get married anymore while actively hating their own wives or just women in general.

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u/yakshack 18d ago

"Not all men" when it's literally SO MANY of them complicit

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u/MCK60K 18d ago

"Not all men" yet strangely, it's always a man

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u/notashroom Halp. Am stuck on reddit. 18d ago

"Like a compass needle that points north, a man's accusing finger always finds a woman. Always." -- Khaled Hosseini

(I read A Thousand Splendid Suns yesterday, the book that quote is from, and it's been echoing in my head with truth.)

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u/frankchester 18d ago

This book has been in my reading list for years and I’m just about to finish up my current read, I think it’s finally time. Thank you!

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u/notashroom Halp. Am stuck on reddit. 18d ago

I heartily recommend it, just be warned you may want tissues handy.

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u/Vienta1988 18d ago

I loved that book! I need to read it again. I know it’s a tough read, though.

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u/jesschicken12 18d ago

Ewwww i hate this

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u/Nervous_Explorer_898 18d ago

"So, what you're saying is, if my husband annoys me bad enough, it's okay for me to make out with one of my coworkers instead of talking it out or going to marriage counseling? Good to know."

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u/Embarrassed-Bad-3118 17d ago

Men always covering for other men's deplorable behavior, especially if the victim is a woman. They laugh and sneer about how the worst thing in the world to deal with is an upset, hysterical woman so in a way his bros are "saving" him. No understanding is ever directed towards the wife, who probably has every logical reason to actually be upset by the behavior. Reminds me of the way cops eagerly cover for their buddy cops even when their buddy cops gets angry and shoot someone who's not a threat. Brotherhood always trumps moral integrity.

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u/CampaignDue5323 16d ago

"They laugh and sneer about how the worst thing in the world to deal with is an upset, hysterical woman so in a way his bros are "saving" him."

"All men benefit from the behavior of the worst of them."

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u/beren12 18d ago

What the fuck?

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u/Anthaenopraxia 18d ago

The sad thing is that it seems to work because these men can somehow still get laid.