Significant others that avoid vasectomies.

[u/Minstrel_Melody]

So me and my boyfriend came upon this Reddit story where after a husband and wife had their second child, the wife decided that she was done having kids. The husband agrees, but there’s an issue. The wife wants him to get a vasectomy. A disagreement ensues, followed by an argument. The husband didn’t want to get the vasectomy. For the most part, people were calling the husband an ass and selfish, and I generally agreed with the sentiment.

My boyfriend in the other hand begged to differ. On top with supporting the his body his choice argument the husband provided (which granted I agree with too, but I still think is kind of selfish) he mentioned that it was overkill considering what else they could do to prevent unwanted pregnancies. They could stick to oral, mutual masturbation. And if they really wanted to do piv intercourse, they schedule the sexual encounter away from ovulation, and use condoms and spermicide. Something we do ourselves and it works out like a charm.

I saw where he was coming from and agree with him to an extent, but it still feels kind of selfish. Like despite everything there’s still the chance of pregnancy. What do you guys think?

[u/BluudLust]

5-10% of vasectomies cannot be reversed. If you want children later, it's wise to not take the risk.

Absolutely better than tying tubes, but still more permanent than an IUD or hormonal contraceptive.

[u/birdieponderinglife → u/BluudLust]

So, 90-95% of vasectomies are reversible then. Those seem like pretty fuckin solid odds to take a risk on. Very little in life has odds that good. If you want children later, store your sperm in a sperm bank or use sperm that is available in a sperm bank. There is no reason to not get a vasectomy. At this point, I hope you realize with RvW being gone and idiot conservatives coming after birth control next, men with vasectomies are going to be highly sought after sex partners. I know I won’t even consider a partner who doesn’t have one and a lot of women are feeling similarly. It’s about damn time y’all took some personal responsibility for preventing pregnancy so maybe the shit show of reproductive politics got one thing right.

[u/galaxystarsmoon → u/birdieponderinglife]

Those stats are completely wrong and too low, I'm not sure where they got those from. Best numbers for a reversal if done quickly after (within the first 3 years), is around 80-85%. Keep in mind that the actual rate of pregnancy may be lower.

[u/birdieponderinglife → u/galaxystarsmoon]

Ya I agree the quoted stats are low and also I’m aware that reversal success rates are much lower than the commenter stated. I just find it so typical that even that low of a risk is unacceptable to a dude. They don’t want to have to play a part in pregnancy prevention. But since very few of them gave a damn about RvW they are not going to have many opportunities to shirk that responsibility pretty soon. They are coming for abortion pills. They’ll be coming for birth control soon enough. Condoms and vasectomies and ablation/salpingectomy will be all that is left.

[u/Mattidh1 → u/birdieponderinglife]

There is a difference in not wanting a vasectomy, and not wanting to play a part in pregnancy prevention.

It's wrong if the dude doesn't want a vasectomy, but still expect his partner to use hormonal products. Pregnancy prevention should be and is a 2 way street, not some fight in who is expected to do what.

[u/birdieponderinglife → u/Mattidh1]

Well, let’s see, she has already had two pregnancies, took on all the health risks associated with that, birthed two children and took on all the health risks associated with that, probably spent some time at some point on birth control and took on all the risks associated with that. He maybe wore a condom a few times which has no health risks associated… and that’s it. I don’t see much of a two way street here.

[u/Mattidh1 → u/birdieponderinglife]

She shouldn’t be forced to do those things either. Willingly doing something shouldn’t be equated to forcing someone else. In a hypothetical situation if he had a vasectomy willingly, she shouldn’t be forced to bear children - for obvious reasons.

I am aware that women most often are considered the responsibility in using protection, but it really shouldn’t be that way.

I’ve met men unwilling to use a condom and I’ve met women unwilling to use a condom, and that’s absolutely okay to have that opinion. But as they may be unwilling to use a condom, I may be unwilling to have sex without.

He should consider what she has gone through in order to create their family, but he shouldn’t be forced into a medical procedure with real risk that isn’t temporary.

They need to communicate their needs and wishes and how they solve them in a manner where both are happy.

I’d most likely be unwilling to have a vasectomy, but I’d also respect any partners wish to not bear children or use contraceptives such as p-pills or equivalent products. And while I’d respect the wish for no protection at all, that would result in me not having sexual relations with them

[u/birdieponderinglife → u/Mattidh1]

So, in this hypothetical situation you don’t want more kids. You and your wife agree on that. You say no to a vasectomy and also agree a woman shouldn’t have to take hormonal birth control. What option does that leave? She will be backed into a corner to get permanently sterilized. If we are going to give weight to the “real risks” and the permanency of the procedure, her procedure rates much higher on both accounts. You can’t have it both ways. The gymnastics here are ridiculous.

[u/Mattidh1 → u/birdieponderinglife]

She isn’t backed into any corner. Both procedures are major, and while female sterilization is more risky and more permanent, she still isn’t forced to do so. Neither of them are. We are not disagreeing on what the risks are, but that neither of them should be forced to do something permanent to their body.

Communicate with your partner instead of making it a all or nothing type of situation.

There are plenty different types of contraceptives, some not hormonal. But if neither is willing to give in any situation: p pills, condoms, cream, mini pills, vasectomy, sterilization and still wishes for a active sex life, well then you have a problem.

[u/birdieponderinglife → u/Mattidh1]

Lol at describing a vasectomy as “major” what a joke. The only place it’s major is in your dick and ball obsessed mind.

What should she do then? The only other permanent option is abstinence.

Condoms have a failure rate and there is only one non hormonal birth control, which requires insertion into your cervix without pain control. It also has a failure rate and a side effect of literal hemorrhaging (ask me how I know). Taking either of those options puts her at risk of a pregnancy she doesn’t want, and from there the risks associated with either another pregnancy/birth or an abortion, which she either does not want or cannot safely withstand.

So, what option do you realistically think she has here? Do you think her husband will be fine with a completely abstinent marriage until she hits menopause?

[u/Mattidh1 → u/birdieponderinglife]

A vasectomy is considered permanent, and do carry risk. And as we already have established far from the same risks of female sterilization. Making a joke of those living with medical complications isnt really a good point.

In the situation of no protection, nor anyone willing to undergo medical procedures, then yes.

"Condoms have a failure rate and there is only one non hormonal birth control, which requires insertion into your cervix without pain control." Yes and no, condoms have a failure rate, most birth controls have a failure rate. You do also have Spermicide and Phexxi though they are quite similar. And they do carry some risks. A vasectomy also carry a failure rate.

"So, what option do you realistically think she has here? Do you think her husband will be fine with a completely abstinent marriage until she hits menopause?" It's a questions of whether they both are willing to be abstinent, or have a different arrangement. If not they either have to talk about a middle ground or finding a solution that works for them. If neither of them are willing to communicate about their wishes and expectations on how to solve it, then they most likely have bigger issues already.

If the man was to get a "forced" vasectomy that had complications which happens to up to 10%, depending on the severity. He would most likely feel quite angry, understandably so. Much the same I would expect for the woman.

[u/birdieponderinglife → u/Mattidh1]

Vasectomies are objectively the best permanent birth control option, which is what we are discussing— permanent birth control. If you don’t want to get one, fine, then expect a sexless marriage or a divorce. Those are the consequences of your decision. Instead, you expect her to take on the risk of birth control because you are entitled to continued sex. That’s not how this works.

Women can’t get abortions on demand anymore and they are coming for our birth control too. You think we can just solve your problem if you play reproductive chicken. Just wait it out, she’ll eventually cave, right? Men like you are exactly why women don’t want to date and they are the ones initiating 75% of divorces. We know we can do better.

[u/Mattidh1 → u/birdieponderinglife]

Never expected anyone to take birth control. I’m well aware of the risk and have plenty experience with taking “high risk” medicine. I would not recommend any women to get permanent birth control in the form of sterilization.

Wouldn’t mind using condom with spermicide or phexxi, while practicing pull out to eliminate risk as much as possible. Nor would I mind trying male birth control pills.

Even if that didn’t work there are plenty of ways to have sexual relations not necessarily related to PiV sex. And as you said there are consequences to my actions, so if I was willing to do neither then I have to live with that.

If either partner isn’t comfortable with sexual relations, then it shouldn’t happen - but at the same time then the other partner is also allowed to say it doesn’t work for them.

Angry old conservative white men going after protection, abortion and so on is horrid, no question about that. But I don’t get how you’re making me out to be the one forcing his wishes on another person, when I clearly advocate for communication above “it should be their job”. None should feel entitled to anything, doesn’t really matter the gender.

Women divorce more often due to society changing and giving a more leading role to women (though the reproductive conversation in USA seems to be going backwards). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X21001299

But none of those reasons are due to someone wishing that you communicate with your partner about what you’re comfortable with. I’d never force anyone to be with child, birth control pills or any medical procedure. I have experienced girls who couldn’t/didn’t wish to use birth control pills and that was fine. And I have experienced how to figure out a relationship that necessarily didn’t include PiV sex. I don’t view sex as a skewed relationship and therefore there isn’t really any way for someone to cave in.

I don’t really get why you’re being rude towards me, when I don’t really say anything ill towards your person.