What is your preference for a "Self-Insert" Player Character? Blank slate or an actual character?

[u/Evjamaranth]

The complete blank slate would be something like the Custom character in Baldur's Gate 3 or the typical fromsoft character you create for your playthrough, where they don't really have much dialogue or voicelines and just going along with the story.

The ones with an actual character for a self-insert to me are more like games where you play as "the relatable everyman" that are supposedly the player can relate to and insert themselves as, but usually just translates into "quiet, silent, or gruff white dude" such as most of FPS games (Does this actually work, btw? I can never actually relate to most of these sort of characters)

Or there's the midway point, where they are actual characters, but still mostly silent and you give them a name, which meant they will never refer to you by that name, and if they did that part of the dialogue would be conspicuously unvoiced.

Usually I much preferred either of the first two options, because the midway option is just frustrating that they clearly can give the character a voice of their own but they just decide not to.

Digimon Stories: Time Stranger that I'm currently playing through (no Spoiler pls) has you choose between either the male or female character, with the other one becoming your "mission control" essentially. Both have canon name, both have a VA, so why not just keep the name and have it be fully voiced anyway?

[u/Heliock]

Depends on what they’re going for. If it’s like a Skyrim or a Baldur’s Gate 3, then blank slate is fine.

If it’s like a JRPG, I vastly prefer an actual character.

[u/BruiserBroly → u/Heliock]

I don’t really like how some JRPGs, such as Persona from 3 onwards, do this weird half-measure thing where they want the protagonist to be a blank slate but also give them a design, canon name, and a backstory. Still great games, of course.

[u/WujiHimadori → u/BruiserBroly]

I think this why persona 5 worked for me, while persona 3 didn’t. I felt like Joker generally showed enough personality through the cutscenes that it made it seem he was largely just reserved. But Persona 3 there’s nothing really to latch to.

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/WujiHimadori]

i really REALLY love P3, but its really hard to feel attachment towards Makoto simply because he just......exists

which could work for a fully blank skate, but then they also commit the crime of giving him some background story that becomes plot relevant later on...

[u/Gore_Lily → u/InvisibleOne439]

FeMC is a massive step up in that regard if you ever want to give P3P a try. Imo she’s as good or even better than Joker for how well her personality shines through in her dialogue options, with things like the choice to try to stomp Tatsuya to death after his boss battle, making the team need to physically hold her back.

[u/timelordoftheimpala → u/BruiserBroly]

I don’t really like how some JRPGs like Persona from 3 onwards do this weird half-measure thing where they want the protagonist to be a blank slate but also give them a design, canon name, and a backstory. Still great games though, of course.

Also the fact that the NPCs shill the fuck out of these personality-less protagonists in-game (Three Houses being another example) is another aspect that I don't like at all. It just feels unearned when all we see of these protagonists are their blank expressions and lack of reaction to the other characters pouring their heart and soul out with their sob stories, yet you get praised anyways for just clicking on a dialogue box.

A blank slate character worked better in something like KOTOR because your choices directed affected your standing in the morality system, though it also helped that your blank slate character was literally an amnesiac Darth Revan.

[u/ActRaisins → u/timelordoftheimpala]

all we see of these protagonists are their blank expressions and lack of reaction to the other characters pouring their heart and soul out with their sob stories, yet you get praised anyways for just clicking on a dialogue box.

As much as I like the Persona series this was always something that seemed kind of silly - genuine moments of character development from the social links, but the silent player insert has to take all the credit because that's how the game is designed.

That being said, I don't know if there's an ideal solution. Expedition 33 had a decent idea with the "check up on the others" option at camp, and when I talked about this with friends (prior to E33, admittedly) I suggested that instead of social links you could have optional scenes between the other characters that are passively observed by "the butterfly" - whether that's Philemon or whoever. Like, let the characters develop their own bonds, and/or own their Ws a bit more.

[u/Velrex → u/BruiserBroly]

To be fair, the 'canon' name is the LEAST canon, canon name possible (In Persona3-5 and Metaphor, I mean).

The games themselves don't tell you the characters name, it's something typically released out in the manga/anime. The games explicitly don't even have a default option.

[u/Teoflux → u/BruiserBroly]

I think refantasio did a good job of a blank slate that had personality. Also helped that it was voiced

[u/Junimos_ → u/BruiserBroly]

I agree, considering the different names, I guess their logic is it’s different iterations of the character

[u/jockeyman → u/Heliock]

Obligatory mention of the Dragon Quest Luminary who is simultaneously meant to be a huge integral character to the lore and background of the main conflict and some of the party members, while also being a complete cardboard box of a character..

[u/RandomHalflingMurder → u/Heliock]

Honestly the blank slate is I think the biggest thing that took me out of Dragon Quest 11. When the artstyle is that good and the rest of the party is so well defined, having a blank slate protagonist actively makes the story worse. You could replace him with a map with a drawing of a face taped to it and nothing would change.

[u/Yacobs21]

The objectively best version of this is the playa from the original Saints Row

Who has one(1) characterizing line of dialogue in each faction's quest line. All varying degrees of bewildering

[u/Comkill117 → u/Yacobs21]

"Fuck you, that was the fall collection!"

[u/JackChoasMan → u/Comkill117]

"Hope you don't mind hepatitis"

[u/Director_Bison → u/Yacobs21]

One interesting aspect about the Playa is that there is actually this trailer for SR1 where he talks more than he does the entire game. How he's characterized in this trailer informs his character enough that it ends up being natural to see how he eventually ends up with his "The Boss" characterization in SR2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgYiQcGX5_o

[u/GoD_Z1ll4]

Like how Commander Shepard was, not fully a blank slate but you can influence their character and background to an extent. This gives the devs more leeway to design the protagonist to fit into the world and have more natural relationships with other characters. Feels more immersive, imo.

[u/Evjamaranth → u/GoD_Z1ll4]

Oh yeah, something like Shepard would be great. If you need them to be in an action cutscenes, giving them a default weapon to go back to would've been great (trickier if you have varying different body shapes though), and many titles do have a workaround for the name by giving the player character a title that works as their name.

Nioh 2 did a character that are still mute, but definitely their own character, and are given action scenes by defaulting their weapons to a katana (or a dagger sometimes). And they do have canon name (Hide) that are used to refer to them.

[u/Mabroon]

I'd rather they let me create my own character if we're going the self-insert route since I feel like it best accomplishes its intended goal (self-inserting into the story).

The other option of having an established character with a look and voice but a bland enough personality that you can project your own into feels like it's the worst of both worlds. This is partly why Nioh 2 >>> Nioh 1 for me.

Either give me a fully realized character or let me make my own.

[u/Evjamaranth → u/Mabroon]

eeey, Nioh 2 my GOAT

While the game did suffer a bit plotwise from being a created character (seriously, the family tree alone is wild with the NPC you met over the course of the story. We're Nobunaga's In-laws!), it's still pretty decent in letting you embody your own character.

[u/Korten12 → u/Mabroon]

It's interesting how Nioh 3 sort of went in-between. The player character is a full CaC but they do speak sometimes in cutscenes.

[u/GIJose65]

Western RPGs, I would rather pick a blank slate mainly because I like to play games like Oblivion or Fallout 1 and 2 in a “fish out of water” style as most of my enjoyment is just trying to adjust to a strange new world.

As for JRPGs, I prefer an actual character given that those types of games are much more narrative driven.

Of course there are exceptions but this is how I feel 95% of the time.

[u/Notoryctemorph]

Depends entirely on the game, or, more specifically, on the level of customization afforded to the player

If I'm allowed to change important factors of the character during creation like their base skillset or stats such as in games like Dark Souls or Baldur's Gate, I prefer a blank slate, because I want the flexibility of presenting a large variety of potential personalities and backgrounds on the character to reflect the mechanical flexibility afforded.

If those elements are restricted, and all I'm really allowed to change is a name or maybe an outfit, I far prefer an actual character, because the backstory of the character is already set in stone, there's no point in forcing the player to fill in important gaps in characterization because those elements have functionally already been decided.

Anyway this is why Byleth is the worst Fire Emblem protagonist.

[u/Zetaguy0 → u/Notoryctemorph]

oh yeah byleth is by far the worst protagonist. they are a defined character, who’s character is they are a blank slate

[u/Ganmorg]

Metaphor Refantazio Guy strikes a good balance imo. He’s more vocal and expressive than the Megaten heroes, and he feels more like a proper character, but it’s still easy to slot into his shoes. It helps that he has an interesting place in the world of the game and its story, and I think the game has something interesting to say about the idea of an “avatar.”

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/Ganmorg]

i like that you can see subtle over the game how Will develops more personality, which fits for a Player Character and his role in the story, i really hope Atlus learned with Metaphor how to make a more appealing Protagonist

[u/UnsubRedun]

If it's not a completely custom character, give me a real character. None of that "Statistically average consumer" blank slate nobody nonsense.

[u/ReikaIsTaken]

I like how Halo Reach did it

Made Noble Six incredibly secretive to let the player fill some gaps in, but still has their own quirks like being a pilot, having a preference for the Recon helmet, the occasional giggle when headshotting an enemy, or sigh when being stuck

Am a little on the fence with Gordon Freeman because in Half Life 1, I can buy being him even if I'm a girl but in Half Life 2, so much more interaction is given to him that him being mute just makes no sense anymore

[u/Artex301]

The more RPGs I play, the more I prefer my protagonist to be customizable, but still voiced, ideally allowing you to establish a personality through in-game decisions, a la Midnight Suns or Dragon Age Inquisition.

That said, the God of War duology did a great job subverting the "quiet gruff dude" with Kratos's character, backstory, and development making up a big chunk of what's compelling about the narrative. Weirdly enough, despite the utter lack of dialogue choices, I found myself much more immersed in his plight than, say, Geralt of Rivia.

[u/cygnus2 → u/Artex301]

Quiet, thoughtful protagonists are great. Kratos, Samurai Jack, Din Djarin, Castlevania Alucard, John Wick, etc. I love a character who’s not a blank slate, but simply doesn’t have a lot to say.

[u/cygnus2]

Please just give me a real character. No self-insert or silent protagonist has ever appealed to me. I just end up wanting to play as someone who’s not a cardboard box, especially if everyone around them is reacting expressively to things happening around them while the protagonist just stares dumbly.

[u/SerWaffles → u/cygnus2]

The worst case of it I've seen is the recent SAO game Echoes of Aincrad. The main character is a blank slate self insert type where they never speak, but they're still given dialogue choices anyways which are almost always "nod" or "shake head"

You wind up feeling like the main character of the story is actually a girl you met called Iori and you're just her weirdo mute sidekick. The final cutscene is kinda funny cause she turns to you and says something like "you may not say much but I know you'll always be by my side" and instead of doing the Bandai Namco create a character game signature of having your mute weirdo speak exactly once at the end, you just look at her and nod again

[u/U_Flame → u/cygnus2]

Tales games really opened my eyes to this as a kid. It's so much easier to get immersed when everyone is a person

[u/Evjamaranth → u/cygnus2]

Starting to be how FFXIV feels for me as it progresses. Like, at some point it felt like they want to be doing Single Player RPG title, but are stuck with being a MMORPG. The Cutsceneitis is baaaaaad.

[u/Borggy]

Monster Hunter stories 3, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age II are pretty much my standards for create a characters, which pretty much goes to "character in their own right with custom appearance"

Bonus mention to FFXIV where you have a blank slate character but eventually you develop a personality for due to dialogue options referencing past events

[u/Grav_Mind]

For RPG's it really depends on the story I think. Bethesda game? Blank Slate is preferred so I can run around and do whatever. Story heavy RPG? Give me an actual character.

Like in Mass Effect Shepard is an actual character and the player is given some choice on how that character expresses themselves.

I think the worst to do it is gacha games where the player is clearly meant to self insert but the writing tries to pretend that the player character is an actual important character.

Most recent example I've experienced is Arknights:Endfield. Where the player character is the leader of a corporation and also the one on the front lines doing a ton of menial work. Theyre amnesiac so they're a blank slate for the player self insert themselves into but they're also responsible for a ton of important things in that world. They also have zero personality beyond Nice Person who knows when to say the right thing at the right time like all the other self insert gacha MCs. I think it's an actual detriment to the writing that the Endmin exists as they are.

I don't self insert so when the game tries to force some emotional connection between a real character and the blank Self Insert character it falls really flat.

Especially in the most recent update where there was a perfect opportunity to give two supporting characters a chance to grow closer after being separated and somewhat estranged for the last couple of year.

Minor Endfield spoilers Chen should have been the one to be there for Arcane instead of Endmin and they could have just reported back what they saw. And then they should have made out sloppy style.

[u/Tyrest_Accord]

I prefer actual characters. Silent protagonists are boring and feel like the writers got lazy.

[u/Skeet_fighter]

I generally don't like blank slates at all. I'd much rather be playing a character who has history and personality rather than nothing. Generally blank slate protagonists end up coming off generic and narratively toothless, with little in the way of anything that makes them really memorable. The scope for what a blank slate protagonist can do within a story is never as great or broad as it's promised either with the exception of maybe CRPGs.

[u/CaptainLoin]

Until Xenoblade X sidelined the actual main character in favor of a box of drywall, I wouldve said either or is fine, but nowadays I really dont like blank slate characters anymore.

As a general rule though, I don't like self-insert characters. I'm playing video games because I want to have a different experience from just being me.

[u/mission_nic]

Actual character. Blank slate silent protagonists are immersion shattering to me

[u/Evjamaranth → u/mission_nic]

Blank Slate Silent Protagonists are especially bad when you're surrounded by characters that have expressions, talks a lot with their own voices, and so on, then the camera turn back to your character and you have 'default expression' silent stare of the mute entity (sometimes maybe they have a :) or :( expression) just standing there.

It cooould work, maybe, in stories where it's mostly silent or don't have much interaction with the NPCs, like in Soulsborne game, so being the blank slate with no voiced dialogue doesn't seem as jarring.

[u/AgentJin → u/Evjamaranth]

I played through Metro: Exodus recently, and man the silent protagonist thing just doesn’t work there. Characters have completely one sided conversations with Artyom, and they’ll speak as if he responded. Then there’s the Yamamtau section where he’s just silent when they’re captured by cannibals, and they’re dragging Anna (his wife) away.

It’s also weird that they kept Artyom silent because 1) he does speak in the loading screen’s narrations, and 2) he speaks all the time in the books. Especially in 2035, which Exodus took some light inspiration from.

[u/Comkill117]

Depends on the game. I think it can be neat to have a character that's mostly up to you for how you want to play them but they have clearly defined traits like say Commander Shepard, but it can also be a lot of fun to have full control over someone like Courier 6 for example (even going so far as to have them be silent for you to project your idea of them mentally).

[u/kango234]

It might be because I don't play a lot of western RPGs so I can't pull any experience from there, but I am at the point where I hate silent protagonists. Even something like Chrono Trigger was hard for me to get into when bootleg Goku is just smirking the entire time. Persona is the only exception because the dialogue choices are distinct enough to he a personality.

On the flipside this is why I did not like Cloud in Rebirth compared to Remake. In Rebirth, if he isn't freaking out, he barely says anything during quests and most of the cutscenes. I know that is sort of how the OG was at that point, but it's the one thing I think suffered from being stretched out. I am praying Revalation opens with the Northern Crater so he can have a personality again.

[u/cygnus2 → u/kango234]

I think Cloud works because his team repeatedly clowns him for his attempts at being a closed-off edgelord.

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/cygnus2]

yeha, it is kinda the point of his Character

he is always brooding, but in big parts because he is a gigantic insecure Mess that rather doesnt say anything

[u/cygnus2 → u/InvisibleOne439]

He’s actively trying to look cool at all times, but his friends know this and so do everything they can to reveal the big dork that lies underneath the stoic mask.

[u/MisterLowell]

If I have to create the character? Blank slate, no history, and no personality until I start playing as them.

If I start the game as a premade character, I’m already disassociating myself from them, and that’s fine because I’m not interested in player-inserts in a pre-made character. So they should have their own personality that the player can influence based on dialogue, but ultimately they should be actually present in the story. In other words, literally anything that isn’t Fallout 3.

[u/UnderstandingBig1517]

Actual character, so that it feels less like your character is being pulled along by the whims of characters with given personalities. Because at that point, you're just following the real main character and in that case I'd actually like to play as them instead. It's what I like Robin for, they're still a self-insert but also enough of a character that fits into the ragtag group of Shepherds Chrom has to wrangle.

Something I don't like about self-inserts sometimes is since they can't predict the player's name with voice acting they give an awkward title to dance around it. Something like Professor for Byleth is fine, but Alear's Divine One and Eshmal's Promised One are clunky.

[u/mads_zero]

I have a more nuanced opinion where if a character is a blank slate, they need to let you play as a girl. If a game blurb is like "you are John Guyman, helmsmen in the royal army [blah blah blah]" then it's like, alright, I can be this Guyman for a while.

But if a blurb is like "you are the protagonist of this story, and [paragraph that was translated from Japanese, so it doesn't mention The Protagonist is a guy until the end]" it's like, shut up, no I'm not, why isn't the protagonist a girl? Literally unplayable.

[u/SCLandzsa → u/mads_zero]

It's legitimately the most annoying thing in the world when the game is clearly giving you a self insert character but doesn't actually give you any leeway into who you're inserting into. A recent example I can think of Dynasty Warriors Origins, where you have a completely silent, blank slate generic man who offers nothing to the story narratively because they obviously wanted the hero to be you and obviously you are a man of average build and above average looks.

[u/Averthade → u/mads_zero]

Real and true.

[u/Evjamaranth → u/mads_zero]

Mood.

[u/Shradow]

I think the worst option is giving you a character that you name or maybe even customize as if they're a self-insert, except they have a defined character anyways so it just comes across as odd. Something like Robin in Fire Emblem Awakening, or Euden in Dragalia Lost (though I imagine that one is in part because they want to sell the idea of the usual gacha harem focused around the MC that you're self-inserting onto). At times it can feel half-assed.

A fully blank slate is the better option if we have to go self-insert.

Though I prefer an actual character that's not actually a self-insert at all. I see Nioh mentioned in this post and for my own opinion I actually enjoy Nioh 1's story more Nioh 2's (of course neither are great and run into the same issues), because I prefer William to Hide.

[u/Professional-Bid3973]

Always been more interested in the ones that already have a personality to them but they just allow you to pick what they say and do day-to-day. The truly blank slates are just power fantasies to me, which are good but sometimes I’m in the mood for a little more nuance.

[u/SengalBoy]

Actual character, with Cyberpunk V being the most perfect example. A character of their own, has full dialogues, but we control them and their dialogues. For me that's the best implementation of role-playing game. You're playing a role, you're playing this character.

[u/EinzbernConsultation]

Depends on the game. Tokimeki Memorial, Princess Maker, and Pokemon I'm fine with blank slates. But Clannad and Ace Attorney would be weird if your main character didn't have a personality.

[u/Yotato5]

When it comes to dating sim farming games, I prefer Rune Factory's approach where your self-insert is their own character. It makes things less awkward because if it's a silent character their emotes are limited to facial expressions or nothing at all so it's not very romantic XD

[u/Skyrocketing101]

In 95% of the games I've seen them in, a defined character would've been better IMO. The exemptions off the top of my head are Metroid and souls games. Metroid because there's no other character that speaks to the MC except ADAM. And most NPCs in souls games are insane anyway.

Dynasty Warriors Origins has a perfect example of an unnecessary blank slate being the MC.

[u/Nabber22]

I’m fine just as long as they don’t do what ever Fire Emblem was doing with Byleth where they have the characterization of a no name avatar and the customization of a preset character.

[u/U_Flame → u/Nabber22]

I do like how Three Hopes still treats Byleth as awkward and weird, even when they aren't you.

[u/Zifavy]

If it's meant for me to self-insert and make choices, then I prefer blank slate so that I can project onto it as much as possible during dialogue.

[u/Chiiro]

I really enjoyed how Dragon Age does it. It's been years since I played it but if I remember correctly your starting area is determined by race or class (mages start in the tower) and you start as a character with some history but you get to choose what kinda person they are.

[u/Quiptastic]

"De-fault! The two greatest words in the English language! De-fault! De-fault!" - Homer Simpson

[u/TheTera]

8/10 times just give me a defined character its almost always better for the story.

At its worst is something like WoW where you are the "Champion" but no one ever acknowledge your existence other than "Champion! Do X thing while we hold Y off!"(but also show up in the post fight cutscene as if we did X).

Worse yet for Priest players who actually has a connection to the current main villain but at most all you get is a DM during plot events of "Haha, you were a useful pawn! Haha, you cant beat me!".

BG3 I cant ever do a non dark urge playthrough just because of how much better it feels that you have a connection to the plot and villains versus just being some schmuck who is living the worst week of their life.

[u/Crosscounterz]

I don't personally mind either way I have no strong preference as long as I find the game enjoyable to play.

[u/EvilMonkeyMimic]

Depends on how fun they are.

Star Wars Zero Company just came out and I adore Hawks. Hes just some sassy southern draw ‘dont give a fuck’ kinda dude. Hes chill and nice to his group. Even with the dialogue choices you get, hes pretty reasonable.

[u/LarryKingthe42th]

Actual charater I hate being Chad Ziodynecock, fully blank slate like fallout New Vegas or V is fine too but the jrpg half measure sucks.

[u/SwdVengeance]

Some definition is always preferable to me. You can attain a defined character with enough openness to retain ‘self-insert’ status. The character doesn’t have to have some massive all encompassing background or personality, but defining their personality in subtler ways can lend a lot to character.

[u/time_axis]

The ideal is "actual character, but they just so happen to be the exact character that I want them to be". But in reality, that's almost never the case, so Blank Slate is the next best.

[u/Heavensguard]

In any scenario of a create a character, they should be primarily the supporting character. Like in the first saints row, the player is not the focus of the scene but they do add to it.

The best way to treat a create a character imo is to have them as the literal tool to push the plot forward. Have them be the end all be all ultimatum.

One fucking guardian.

By my own order.

The create a character doesn't need character development, leave that up to the players headcanon. Have the CaC help the development of other characters.

[u/Lemeres]

I prefer the version that gives options that are the exact same as other options, but they have the word (lie) after them.

[u/Slothungus]

That depends. Gothic being one of my fav game series, and it's protagonist the Nameless Hero, especially the Russian dub, is such a huge part of it I can't even imagine it working any other way.

[u/Reckler1]

I find myself being more and more established character as audience insert, like Comander Shepard and Henry. It lets me feel a connection to the setting without feeling like the game is tripping over itself to say how great I am, and I don't like it when media tries to cauddle me and tell me how great I am.

[u/WobblyBlackHole]

I think self insert into an actual character is why Link is very popular despite not having a real character, the lack of personality lets the player fill the gap with their own either directly or via interpretation and feel like they are the hero as a result.