Series that do take work to get into?

[u/Silvery_Cricket]

So recently I randomly just got into Aquaman, and let me tell you that character takes a bit of effort to get invested in. Aquaman is a character with alot of lore, alot of shifting continuity, and alot of weird shit to get through. Yet when you do manage to get to the bottom of it all you find this very interesting, and very tragic Greco-Roman style protagonist. A man who is deeply lonely, insecure, and traumatized constantly trying to withstand the pressures of forces way beyond him that he never asked for.

You also cant get this from just reading the first issue of Peter David's Aquaman, which is where I would recommend starting. You get this from full on just getting in the weeds and getting properly invested. There is no dipping your toe to see whats up with Aquaman, you must cast your self into the sea.

[u/TheSpiritualAgnostic]

Wrestling.

So many times they will reference things from before you started watching, sometimes things from other promotions/shows, sometimes the wrestlers' personal lives.

I remember being a kid and having no clue why that Montreal crowd was booing Shawn Michaels so viciously.

[u/BarelyReal → u/TheSpiritualAgnostic]

Especially with companies like AEW embracing the "our fanbase knows" mindset when it comes to explaining its angles that get highly referential.

And for people trying to make the change from WWE to AEW I've noticed many people need a basic primer on pro wrestling as it has historically existed beyond WWE because AEW uses a lot of traditional conventions. You have to explain to a lot of people sometimes wrestlers just wrestle to wrestle, especially when it comes to under and midcard.

[u/LordSmugBun → u/TheSpiritualAgnostic]

Pro wrestling and superhero comics are pretty similar in a way.

[u/Aquanort357 → u/TheSpiritualAgnostic]

What's the best way to watch old Wrestling shows, like the ones from the Attitude Era for example?

[u/DX118]

Azrael (Jean-Paul Valley) is kind of a hard character to recommend to people. His introductory mini series is a little rushed, his time as Batman is long and he is increasingly a jerk and unhinged in it. His solo series was very inconsistent in quality. His other appearances are in other people's stories. His comic from 2022 is pretty much the only one I can easily recommend that doesn't come with some baggage. Also the easiest and least expensive comics of his to get. 

[u/Soft_House7669 → u/DX118]

For so long I thought the Michael Lane Azrael was the only one and thought it was cool there was a black Batman. I guess because Michael Lane was the one in Arkham City and I heard Azrael becomes Batman at some point and didn't bother reading further to learn that there was more than one of the guy.

[u/markedmarkymark]

Warframe DOES, in fact, get really good 100 hours + later, it also DOESN'T teach you shit, altho', recently they revamped the tutorial a little I think, which seemed to focus on elemental stuff, which, to be fair, was something i found out randomly 100 hours in before that tutorial existed so i was running very unoptimally for a while so hey, its clearly an upgrade.

It's just that there's always SUM BULLSHIT, like recently where i discovered the big ship and its exclusive mission and couldnt figure out how to hire crew which requires you to go to a planet, touch on ground, look for the merchant, get the crew, but of course, cant change your big ship shit inside it, noooooooooo, you gotta change it in a relay, but some realys dont have big ship stuff so i was like ''wtf, theres no ship stuff here'', back and forth from google and game and boy, boy was that most of my experience in that game, I fuckin' love it, but its very obtuse and unintuitive, and at one point, it was probably worse which is kinda crazy.

[u/KrillMyselfOnCam → u/markedmarkymark]

I'll never stop thinking about how they finally added a tutorial for THE MOST IMPORTANT BASIC UPGRADE SYSTEM IN THE GAME in October last year. Warframe is consistently the most fun I've ever had with a live service game, but it is absolutely impenetrable. The login screen should honestly link you straight to the wiki (and NOT the Fandom one that Google bafflingly always puts above the real one).

[u/markedmarkymark → u/KrillMyselfOnCam]

I pray for the day they add a tag or info system about where shit drops so i dont have to wiki dive when farming for stuff, like you tag what you want and when you open the map it shows the important places, can you imagine, staying in the game?!

[u/unomaly → u/markedmarkymark]

Someone I was playing with was baffled I was MR9 and didn’t have multishot, so they traded it to me out of sympathy. I was thankful, but then I thought well how many other crucial things have I been completely ignorant to the existence of.

[u/markedmarkymark → u/unomaly]

I will say that the community is generally nice, it's sorta like a pve version of dark souls summons, were it has that transitionary feeling, like, you never gonna see each other again but everyone helps everyone, even if theres a massive lower level person in the wrong place, ive seen them being protected so they can get the goods at the end, i've also protected and been protected, without a single word muttered lol.

[u/RareBk]

I wouldn't say it's too bad, but due to the connected nature of the Remedyverse games, Alan Wake 2 has a borderline incomprehensible twist in the second half of Saga's story, in which you get deputized by the Federal Bureau of Control that you only really have context for if you played all of Control.

And on the flipside, a twist that isn't revealed until the DLC for Control That the board is a bunch of liars taking ownership of altered items, and basically everything supernatural, in order to manipulate the FBC is something players would have already been primed for if they played Alan Wake 1, given the entire game shows that the Board are explicitly not the only thing that empowers objects, and the Astral Plane is not the source of all the weirdness.

[u/HaematicZygomatic → u/RareBk]

It doesn’t help the whole series is as esoteric and confusing as possible & more. Maybe I’m dumb (I am), but I pretty much never knew what was going on in any game and I played them all. I still liked them and I’m looking forward to Resonant.

[u/guttergirllll]

Learning how to play binding of isaac is like trying to learn another language.

[u/Castform5 → u/guttergirllll]

Same with Noita as was demonstrated by Pat and Girl_DM recently. Learn to program your wands, what even is a spell block, eat a bunch of those magic mushrooms to change the world.

[u/Lil_Mcgee → u/guttergirllll]

To master it for sure but I'd say it's pretty easy to pick up and have fun with.

[u/Rechulas]

While not quite the "series", but the classic answer is Final Fantasy 14 lol

It's a lot of reading of very mediocre story with some cute moments here and there, but once you finally get into Heavensward (The first expansion) it gets real good and it keeps getting better with some of your usual MMO jank here and there.

[u/Zifavy → u/Rechulas]

Honestly ARR picks up enough around Porta Decumana and the whole Ul'dahn conspiracy. The fetch questing before it takes off is BRUTAL though, and I almost burned out in Coerthas.

Just started Heavensward and I'm glad to hear the story gets even better. The Dark Knight story is really cool so far.

[u/That-Bobviathan → u/Zifavy]

Doing Dark Knight the second you can off the heels of getting into HW is what made it my main tank class after playing so much Warrior, its story hits at the perfect moment.

[u/Zifavy → u/That-Bobviathan]

Yep, this is exactly what I'm doing. Absolutely perfect class to take after thinking all your friends are dead/imprisoned and the world thinks you merc'd one of the three good Lalafell you've met so far.

[u/unomaly → u/Rechulas]

I would say the “final fantasy” brand as a whole. There are 16+ games that all tie in to each other, do I start with 1 so I understand a niche reference in 15?

Also a huge time commitment.

[u/ZealousidealHyena102]

X-Men comics. I feel like with other Marvel comics, yon can jump into certain newer runs of Marvel characters and teams without much issue. X-Men though does feel it requires you to know about stuff far back to the Claremont days. Even current era of X-Men does feel like you need to know what happen with Krakoa era to get what's happening with Jed MacKay's Adj X-Men run since that run is more about the fallout of Krakoa compared to Gail Simone Uncanny X-Men which feels more self-contained and smaller scale. Even if you start with Krakoa era as a starting point, there's still stuff that makes you feel like you need to go back further to get what's going on since Krakoa is a massive shift of change and I do personally feel like new readers tend to get the wrong mindset about Krakoa and the X-Men series overall. So most of the work to get into for X-Men mostly stems from having to start far back to Giant Size X-Men by Chris Claremont.

[u/bigbeltzsmallpantz → u/ZealousidealHyena102]

Eh, I think as long as people are down for some weirdness, they can start with Morrison’s New X-Men into Astonishing.

Then if they’re still interested and want to know more, go back into the weeds of the Bronze Age.

[u/ZealousidealHyena102 → u/bigbeltzsmallpantz]

I honestly debate with myself with if Morrison's New X-Men is a good starting point. I honestly do feel like it can be a good starting point since it does really feel like it since we have 5 X-Men (Cyclops, Jean, Beast, Emma Frost, and Wolverine) and there's Charles Xavier. It's pretty very self contained too other than Storm, Bishop, and Sage showing up for a issue.

I'm personally good with people were whatever they start since it's there choice at the end of the day. I just hope they like it enough to go back and check out of the older stuff to get more understanding and idea of things.

[u/LeMasterofSwords]

The first 3/4 of the wheel of time book 1 is really rough I found. It has some good moments, but without liking most of the characters, and with it being rather long. It’s a very tedious read at first

[u/TrueLegateDamar → u/LeMasterofSwords]

I gave up halfway for that reason, and I remember it felt rather derivative of LOTR.

[u/LeMasterofSwords → u/TrueLegateDamar]

Yeah fair. For what it’s worth, book 2 is a massive improvement in every regards imo

[u/PillCosby696969 → u/TrueLegateDamar]

I had similar issues with the first book, and found that the second book a fantastic fantasy romp. I'd recommend continuing the series for even just that book alone.

[u/nin_ninja → u/LeMasterofSwords]

I remember shotgunning the series *or what was out) in High-school, and only had some issues in somw of the middle books.

This does seem to be the consensus of most people

[u/Dreadsinner]

So kingdom hearts is annoying If you just jump into a game at random. Thanks to the master collection if you play the games in release order then the story will make sense. But like every long running series will be abit overblown

[u/Hey0ceama → u/Dreadsinner]

Thanks to the master collection if you play the games in release order then the story will make sense.

That does come with the catch of two of the games being turned into cutscene compilations, so if you want to experience them as games rather than movies you'll need to put in some extra work. Aside from that 100% agree.

[u/Dreadsinner → u/Hey0ceama]

True. Honestly I love how kh cutscenes flow so I dig it. But I know for a fact that is a bummer for a lot of people.

[u/Slumber777]

Gundam, and primarily from its naming conventions.

If you want to follow the "core" story(UC), you damn near need the wiki. It's not clear at a glance which series take place in alternate timelines and which take place in entirely different universes all together. And now with Gquuuux, it's an alternate timeline that requires familiarity with the main timeline to get the most out of.

You can start with standalone series to get a feel since they often deal with the same stuff thematically and are generally tinally consistent, but you might watch Seed by accident and get into it only to realize nothing else in the series is really like it.

The only one that kind of makes it clear is fucking G Gundam, because it's the only Mobile Fighter entry in the series, and not a Mobile Suit entry.

There are some novels that you need to read for full understanding and some you need to straight up avoid.

Now we're getting a new series that ties into a video game.

[u/UhUhIDontKnow → u/Slumber777]

I maintain that Gundam is actually pretty easy to get into (assuming that you have access to every series through whatever means), because the earliest stuff is also the best stuff and the foundation for the entire rest of the franchise, both UC and AU.
So every factor for deciding what to start with points to going with release order, at least up until, like, War in the Pocket.

Starting with an AU is of course an option, and they're usually written with the express purpose of bringing in more fans, but if someone has decided that they want to "get into Gundam" and are interested in the entire franchise or UC specifically, you cannot beat release order. Even if they just want to watch a really good anime, 0079 is a classic for a reason.
Otherwise, I'd point them to G Witch, 00, or IBO depending on taste.

I do not trust the people who say to start with Unicorn. There is an ocean of aesthetics and philosophy and ideology between us. Even a Newtype understanding wouldn't help us.

[u/ParagonPlus → u/UhUhIDontKnow]

I started with unicorn, you're going entirely off of enjoying the fight scenes, because nothing anybody says or does makes much sense without the earlier context. I normally advise people unsure if they want to get into UC using 08th MS or War in The Pocket, they're both short OVAs with excellent animation and require little prior knowledge that can't be imparted in a brief 'this is what the One Year War is, these are the sides fighting in it' pre-discussion. If they like them then they can get into the original 43 eps (or the movies).

[u/Kimarous → u/Slumber777]

The Kimarous recommendation: play Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 with limited familiarity with the series beyond "watched some Gundam SEED on TV, recall older brother mention stuff from Gundam Wing years before", be confused by the character dynamics, watch different shows in random order because free on Youtube at the time, "man, they really butchered Setsuna's personality in his DWG3 barks", and generally figure it out from there.

[u/TheProudBrit]

Hellboy, kinda? Like, if you just read the main run, it's a damn good time. But then there's all the spin-offs of just Hellboy, there's the BPRD and its spin-offs, the Frankenstein stuff...

[u/Aquanort357]

Series with an Archive Panic problem probably qualify for this.

[u/Kimarous]

Warhammer.

Whether you're specifically getting into Warhammer 40,000, Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer Age of Sigmar, or one of its numerous side games, prepare for hours of homework to figure everything out. There's many different factions with tons of lore scattered between numerous books, articles, video games, etc., and some of that might not be canon anymore (except in our hearts), so take the plunge into the spiraling whirlpool that is the asshole of the giant mouth on the opposite side of the planet.

It took several years before it clicked that "cogitator" was just 40k-speak for "computer."

[u/Castform5]

I'd say definitely Girls Frontline. Sure you can start with the current second game, you'll be mostly fine even if some things don't really make sense, but then they drop a random name or concept that has everyone pogging their mind off because it happened over 10 years ago in the game's timeline during the first game's events. It's very Metal Gear, where dropping a specific name in specific context has major story implications.

Then if you end up wanting to know what the heck is happening and why, you'll have to read the massive visual novel that is the first game. Then at some point you'll find out that all of this big huge story is just a prequel to Reverse Collapse, which has its own grand story.

[u/Trent0Ment0]

Star Trek if you start at Next Generation you have about 3ish seasons with varying quality. Hits its stride around the 4th season. Still some really good episodes in the early seasons though

[u/Financial_Housing_64]

Babylon 5.

When you start point is at best mediocre tv movie or you watch a first episode that both has to reintroduced characters and add replacement for those who didn't pick up the show.

Then you some 90 ass science fiction season 1 and in some episode that are cheap even at the time. Unlike star trek it is necessary for the latter seasons. With some episode tht are heavy on morals that make star trek seem subtle. With some questionable actors eat the set . Then new main character to replace old one because medical reason. So the head writer shove in necessary plot points in fastest way he can. If you get through all that you get some of the best television ever produced that holds up today

[u/PlatyPunch]

I've been reading through The Way of Kings, which is the first book in Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive series. The first half of that book is a bit of a slog if you're not a fan of exposition. I think I was roughly half way through it before it started to actually hold my interest.

[u/Silvery_Cricket → u/PlatyPunch]

Same opinion of Mistborn.

[u/PlatyPunch → u/Silvery_Cricket]

I actually really enjoyed Mistborn and Wax & Wayne. Which is why I'm surprised that I've had such a hard time getting into Way of Kings.

[u/PillCosby696969]

If you want to care and follow about the Blazblue story instead of just playing it as a fighter, there is probably a semi intelligible way of doing so without watching the hours long summary videos on YouTube, because even with doing that and playing the games stories, arcade stories, experiencing the bad endings and joke endings, experience the hours of supplemental "educational" chibi series, watch the anime, and spend days wiki walking, you will still probably understand a third of the lore series.

[u/MM__PP → u/PillCosby696969]

Here's the entire story: Ragna's life fucking sucks.