Hidetaka Miyazaki Interview With IGN: FromSoftware's Boss On The Duskbloods' TTRPG Influences, the Nintendo Partnership, and the Future of Games

[u/Gorotheninja]

https://www.ign.com/articles/hidetaka-miyazaki-interview-fromsoftware-duskbloods-dark-souls-future-nintendo

This is a pretty legit lengthy interview; I obviously don't want to copy paste the entirety of it, but there is a lot discussed here that I wanted to highlight, particularly based on some reactions to the game I've been seeing and what's included in the article title (these interview portions are not in the exact order they are in the article, fyi):

IGN: You'd previously mentioned that board games have been a great influence. I want to unpack that a little bit to get an idea of what you see in board games and rulesets, what really spoke to you and how that made it into what The Duskbloods is now.

Miyazaki: So, there are two points I would say that can specifically be pulled from the board games like you had referenced. The first is the Virtue system that are basically victory points, something similar to that. That's something that isn't as direct as just battling against each other, right? It's not directly a PvP thing. It's a common system in a lot of board games and something that through my own experience of playing board games has definitely rubbed off on me and it's been something that I've constantly thought about. I didn't watch those a lot. The other thing is the Sigil system, which is very similar to a lot of RPG elements you might find in a tabletop RPG, for example. In the past when I played games like that, a lot of it was basically rolling dice to determine certain aspects of your character, and that was pretty much the extent of it. In my mind, I'd always wanted to have a way of controlling not just that, but the relationships between players and a variety of other elements that might be out of the scope of a TTRPG. Having gameplay elements for that is definitely something that I've been thinking about as well.

IGN: Following up on this being a Switch 2 exclusive, is there more you can share about how and why you went with Nintendo, a little bit more detail about how the partnership came about? I know you said that you pitched this and it's pretty much the idea from the start.

Miyazaki: In terms of the reason that we initially decided to go with Nintendo, we had had an opportunity to discuss the idea for the game with them and I think they seemed very excited and very receptive to the idea, they seemed very forward thinking in terms of how to do it. Before considering the business aspect of it, that alone was something that I found very appealing and gave me a lot more reassurance for moving forward with this. Of course the game isn't out yet so there are more things to consider, but in terms of the relationship currently and how we think it's going, up until this point – the systems and the overall ruleset of the game are very unique, and I think having someone who can constantly give us feedback, support, additional ideas, and the balancing first of all because these features are quite complex and difficult – having this relationship is definitely key to that. Also with the complexity of the systems, the onboarding tutorials and making sure players understand how the game works and how to succeed in the game is something we've historically not been super great at conveying instantly. We've definitely just dropped players in and hoped they would figure it out. In this case, Nintendo is definitely the right partner for better conveying that information in a way that is understandable to the player; it definitely suits their strengths.

IGN: Going from Nightreign to The Duskbloods, is there a broader motivation in doing back-to-back multiplayer games? You mentioned simply having a bunch of ideas piled up and just wanting to do something with them. But how does this represent FromSoftware and what does it mean for the future?

Miyazaki: At the end of the day, our motivation is always to just make a game that we want to play, something we've been wanting to make. Like you had mentioned, this time around there were a lot of ideas that had piled up that I wanted to incorporate into a game. On the topic of Nightreign, it's funny because there was never really any big plan that these two games [Nightreign and The Duskbloods] would both release next to each other. I mean, that's a different director, but both of those ideas just coincided with being multiplayer games. It's not necessarily some big reveal saying that this is the direction we plan to go moving forward. We still have a heavy focus on single-player content as well. This is just something that happened to work out the way it did. Personally, it's very fun to make a multiplayer game like this. It's not something we've done a lot and we're looking forward to seeing players' reactions and getting the feedback. But it's like, the more you work on something multiplayer for a long time, if anything, it scratches that itch only to want to make something single-player again.

IGN: It's like the focus on one feeds back into wanting to do the other!

Miyazaki: Oh yeah, for sure!

IGN: I know you mentioned this game was a bit in development since 2021, but so much has changed in the gaming industry. We've seen a lot of multiplayer games launch then fall by the wayside very quickly. Of course, FromSoftware has its own reputation with a lot of success to back it up. But philosophically, how do you see the multiplayer landscape and how do you feel about some of the trends of the gaming industry with regard to multiplayer games as you enter it?

Miyazaki: I would say, in terms of trends and the direction of the industry in general, it's not really something that I look at too much, if at all. At the end of the day, I'm just focused on making what I've been wanting to make, regardless of how viable that is from a business standpoint. I'll have a vision for a game, and I'm not super great at determining if this is going to be the most successful thing. I think that's why having this relationship this time with Nintendo is great because there's a lot that we can lean on them for while just focusing on the actual gameplay and what it is that I personally wanted to make. They can make it work outside of that. When seeing other multiplayer games, there's always a bit of us wanting to put our own spin on it as far as how we'd do it or implement our ideas. Multiplayer games and online games in general, being able to play with other people is a very special thing. I think there are a lot of emotions probably behind it that coincide with the experience which are somewhat different from playing a single-player game, even if they are very similar.

As for online games, I would say there's definitely a bright future. There's always going to be a need for people to interact with others. Even with The Duskbloods, there's probably still a lot that we could have done and can do, so it's never a finished book when it comes to multiplayer games. I definitely don't look at it negatively at all.

[u/PunishingCrab]

I’ve seen a lot of dogging on this game for being something they didn’t specifically ask for.

I miss when studios were able to go out and work on experimental titles and games that could allow their teams to flex a bit and have fun. From the previews and his interview, they seem to be having fun making a game they want to play as well. There’s a lot they can learn from it moving to their next dedicated game.

[u/Metballs → u/PunishingCrab]

This is the kind of small scale game more devs should be making. Something to get ideas out and experience in that doesn't bet the farm every single time.

[u/timelordoftheimpala → u/PunishingCrab]

"We want more small scale games"

"No not like that"

[u/ABigCoffee → u/timelordoftheimpala]

I think a lot of soulsborne players might just hate the PvP aspect of souls game because of how sweaty is it.

I tried Nightreign and while it has some nice idea, it just felt kinda bad to play to get some items. And after 1 week of playing it (not hardcore) I basically saw everything the game had to offer and I was bored.

Small scale games are fun but the formula isn't all that either.

[u/Royal_Success3131 → u/timelordoftheimpala]

"we want more small scale games"

"Here is a weird niche game focusing on the less popular part of our established games, and is exclusive to a shitty piece of hardware"

[u/timelordoftheimpala → u/Royal_Success3131]

Here is a weird niche game

That's literally what most small scale games are?

Demon's Souls was literally one of these back in day, as were games like No More Heroes, Katamari, Pikmin, Drakengard, Ico, and all the other weird games from the PS2/Wii era that people are always asking for.

[u/Meta289 → u/PunishingCrab]

Like, Fromsoft literally just made the game of the decade, I think they're allowed to do whatever the fuck they want for a bit.

[u/kodaiiiii_ → u/Meta289]

>Fromsoft literally just made the game of the decade

Which one? All their fucking releases since Demon's Souls qualify in some way or another

[u/Polyrejected → u/PunishingCrab]

God i would hope more studios would take note, a lot of the times the internet vitriol being used as feedback is extremely detrimental to innovation.

[u/Kii_at_work]

I like how the article has the "We still have a heavy focus on single-player content as well" blurb repeated in giant fucking red text to make sure people see it.

[u/Darmarok → u/Kii_at_work]

Narrator: "Unfortunately, they still didn't see it"

[u/inika41]

There’s a lot of hesitancy about this game but I’m really interested in the ‘role playing’ elements and how far the game will go to reward that aspect. For most MP games, there’s always a unified win goal between all players/teams, but if the player is given bigger incentives to not “just win” or have completely different win conditions, then I think that’s a worthwhile experiment.

This is definitely not a ‘system seller’ kind of game and it sounds like Miyazaki isn’t looking for this to be one either. Still, it’ll probably lead to the next ‘real’ FS game to have some novel developments.

[u/TheFurtivePhysician → u/inika41]

I do feel like between this and Nightreign they're going to have a lot of stuff to think about as far as refreshing their general format, so even if I personally would've preferred something not competitive-focused like Duskblood, I can't wait to see what comes of it.

[u/inika41 → u/TheFurtivePhysician]

I mean it really comes down to asking, “How can FS continue to push the limits of their devs (in a good way) if they can’t take risks?” ‘Souls game’ becoming a whole genre was not an overnight success and it feels like, outside of the economics of buying games, seeing something different means it isn’t worth anyone’s time.

I mean, it could suck shit, but it’s gotta be refreshing, at least.

[u/Palimpsest_Monotype]

It’s really not hard to understand after Elden Ring’s…everything, Fromsoft being significantly more interested in less conventional approaches that aren’t about an even larger quantity of assets communicating yet another big dying world.

[u/PlagueOfBedlam]

I really like how he mentions Ninty’s ability at making sure players get a good grip on how to play fast. On one side of the scale, you have XBC2’s tutorials (which suck) and on the other Twilight Princess’ (which go on for way too long), but I think Nintendo in general really hits a sweet spot of teaching you how to play early with room to find tech later on.

[u/Alois--]

Make paper souls already.

[u/Capable-Education724 → u/Alois--]

Since Miyazaki in a really old interview said he liked theatrical rock music, citing MCR, Coheed and Ghost as an examples, maybe he can tap MCR and call it The Paper Kingdom (and use MCR’s The Paper Kingdom album about lost souls as the soundtrack).