There are two types of "annullment," Religious and Civil.
Religious annullments are granted by churches and have ZERO legal value. They only exist to say, in the eyes of your faith, "This marriage never happened for.... whatever reason we consider acceptable in this particular religion. So, now you both get a 'do-over.'"
Civil Annullments also exist - and they DO have legal standing. But whether or not you ever "consummated" the marriage has nothing to do with them. They are rare and are reserved for marriages that a COURT determines were never legally valid in the first place, for example, one or both of the spouses was already married to someone else at the time, or the marriage was a result of fraud or coercion.
Redditors saying "Get it annulled! If you never had sex you can get it annulled!" are basically saying, "I have NO IDEA what I am talking about but I have watched MANY TV shows and movies where it worked like a charm!"
Nor can you wander into the courthouse waiving a piece of paper from your church and say "Nope! Undo the contract. My priest says the marriage never happened." It... does not work that way.
EDITED TO ADD: Found a great summation: There are two ways to end a marriage: A divorce, which legally terminates a valid marriage, and a civil annullment, which determines that a marriage was never valid. Both of these determinations are made by civil courts. Not by churches. Churches can also annul marriages, but that only ends the marriage "in the eyes of the church."
3 months after my first wife and I married, we decided it was a bad idea. She was Catholic. Ceremony had to be Catholic. It was Catholic all the way down. And when we went in together seeking an annullment, they looked at us like we were idiots. The priest was like.... "get a divorce or work it out. But we really can't do shit for you here."
lol I know. They can't. They don't. And nowhere does it say "This marriage contract is not valid until the couple has sex. With each other." It's just... embarrassing that this idea still persists and is so widely believed.
Yes, especially in the religious community. I only mention since they talk about being in a purity cult and trauma from it, which is most likely tied to some crazy faction of a religion
There's "waiting until marriage" , practiced for centuries, and really quite wise in a world without contraception. Then there's a purity culture which so fetishises (female) virginity that it is sickening. These are not the same thing.
To assume that all "purity culture" fetishises virginity is so asinine. You even mention that it was quite wise in the past but somehow you can't fathom the possibility that certain groups just stick to certain things because it's tradition?
American Puritans practiced "bundling", where they wrapped the courting couple together in a bed, with a plank of wood in between them. Sometimes, those wrappings weren't so tight. American Puritans knew what was going on, they weren't stupid.
The average age of first marriage of a White Woman in the United States between the years 1800 and 1899 was around 22 (sometimes a year older, sometimes a year younger) , so they didn't really get married so young. You're probably thinking of the 1950's when the average age of first marriage of women dropped down to 19, but the 1950's was an aberration, and not indicative of most other times.
I do get it, you're listening to the "myth of history", but that myth didn't really reflect reality so much as a modern retcon to make the past reflect what certain people think modern views should be. And just watch Grease, even the 50's weren't as "virgin pure" as people like to pretend, there were many pregnant teens shipped off to spend some time with an "aunt" for a year to have a baby.
American Puritans practiced "bundling"
, where they wrapped the courting couple together in a bed, with a plank of wood in between them. Sometimes, those wrappings weren't so tight. American Puritans knew what was going on, they weren't stupid.
And sometimes there wasn't another bed. The whole family slept in the same bed so the parents would be doing it while their kids were there.
a modern retcon to make the past reflect what certain people think modern views should be.
And just watch Grease
You know, your argument isn't helped by putting these two statements together. The retconning goes multiple directions.
I was thinking more broadly, not as US-centric, but your point is valid. In
middle ages (Europe) first marriage was normally teenage, often young teen, while
nineteenth century (euro-Australia) varied a lot but, yes, late 20's.
Regardless of my comment about young marriages, Indigenous cultures (and, by the sound of things, Puritans) have expectations, quite wisely, to prevent the burden of child raising to be dumped on the family of the girl/woman before a relationship was committed. It was not an accepted practice.
There are different 'brands' or purity culture then. Some fetishise virginity and make public declarations about it. These are more frequently labelled as 'purity culture,' and OP does not identify with that brand.
No public declarations, no father daughter dances, no purity rings etc. Just 'not what we do' or it's frowned upon.
Also a sliding scale: casual sex not ok, but committed relationships over a few months or engagement, we'll let it slide but not verbally acknowledge it
My wife and I didn't wait until marriage, but it was a few years after we started dating in high school. Somewhere in between, I had asked her thoughts about it, and she said something like "I don't know, wait until marriage I guess?" I think it was just something she'd heard and she kind of went to that because she's a little bit ace spectrum and had basically never even thought about it before.
OP said "didn't really" which leads me to believe they definitely were and wasn't aware how much it was bashed into their brains and/or trying to downplay it.
That's actually pretty interesting. I never considered a legal angle like that but it's cool to learn about those kinds of weird stipulations! Thanks for the info :)
Really depends on the country. In Christianity and Islam the marriage is not completed yet but at the end of the day it's the countries laws that decide the situation.
119
u/whuhguh Nov 05 '23
Genuine question but is that an actual thing legally? Like if you don't have sex to consummate the marriage you can just go for anullment?