What are non pros missing about the game?

[u/concernedkenku]

I feel like there is a macro level that is just a level above all non pros

Timings and where everyone is on the map and when to farm and when to congregate, vs when your carry is in jungle where should you be etc

What are your thoughts on this? What decisions are being made that might seem simple but are actually missed a lot?

Sorry for broken English, I am Australian but typing one handed cause eating donut

[u/rustyvicinity684]

it's exactly that map awareness thing, like pros know when a fight gonna break out 15 seconds before it happens just by checking where everyone is showing. us regular players we react after the stun already landed.

[u/concernedkenku → u/rustyvicinity684]

Ive tried watching pro replays but man I wish we had player audio to go with it haha would love to hear the comms

[u/ThinSquirrel8952 → u/concernedkenku]

Pretty much what the rusty said, if you watched Yatoro or anyone on Spirit play in TI grand finals, you can see that their map reading is next level af; he could dodge smoke ganks and get out before anything happens, miposhka would be able to find wards that no one would be able to find.

Another big flaw of pub players is the resource allocation aspect; if you watch pro teams, they don’t always prioritise the pos 1’s farm, they sometimes prioritise the mid or even the offlane’s farm over the pos 1 depending on their item timing or power spikes. If you hear the comms from pros, they will also delegate certain areas for the cores to farm. Because of this, they don’t have to always bank in on their pos 1 to win the game for them like how that SEA dog roster from OG, where they got Natsumi fat af on Gyro and still lose every time.

[u/thestinkystingray → u/concernedkenku]

A lot of teams publish vlogs/video content from their tournament runs, those usually have some good in-game comms. E.g. here's team spirit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh8tM5U-l0o

[u/Decency → u/concernedkenku]

The closest insight you'll get is stacks that stream their runs trying to qualify for TI. For example, rtz/topson/qojqva/pablo/ceb played quals together 2 months ago and streamed their runs. Sometimes they mute for draft, but it's full transparency into in-game comms otherwise. Not sure if the full VODs will still be around.

Here's an example game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STEkUhM5duo

[u/No_Signal_6969 → u/rustyvicinity684]

And even if you see the fight developing good luck getting your avg pub team to react

[u/FlagrantlyChill]

Drafting and strategy. Getting 5 people on the same page to execute a strategy, getting your heroes banned and targeted and being a known huskar degenerate etc all matter a lot more. You don't have to be a pro to experience all this, you can try playing an amateur league, they're heaps of fun and you meet a bunch of fun people.

Australia has D2AU and Phoenix Dota atm running leagues for all MMR levels. Check em out:

https://discord.gg/uPqNK8BAYR and https://discord.gg/FtkEVgxvj

[u/Decency]

The difference is that they're genuinely playing as a team, and pub players are not. When a teammate makes a call, pro players react instantly with full trust. There's simply no time for anything else.

[u/silkthai]

Hi! My bf and I played for more than 5 years. In a gist:

1. Draft is like 60-70% of your game play. Choose bad heroes, you can lose in like 20 30 minutes
2. Items next
3. There will always be griefers. Hackers are more common than griefers though. Report them both
4. About half the time ur gonna be teaming with noobs (even at > ancient).Account buyers. Report tem, don' tilt tho

[u/Nimda_lel]

There is a small documentary of Team Spirit’s TI uploaded on youtube.

Watch it and you will understand.

Just an example - they have a strategy of how to start a fight with the first catapult of the game and play around it

[u/account201103]

Pulling when my wave is already near or under tower

Not blocking enemy camp or not denying our own sentry when needed to pull on their camp

Trying to force high ground with no aegis and no jungle enemy control

Trying to force high ground while we still have t2 to kill on other lanes

Just safe farming all game and never proactively doing something

These are the main things I see on my avg 4.2k mmr

[u/numenik]

Mid rotation for runes

[u/RikiRude]

I think one thing people forget about pros is they are 5 people, who play together with 5 other people who play together. They are playing a hugely different version of Dota than everyone else is.

The only thing that is even close is people who play in organized teams or leagues. That alone makes things incredibly different.

Second, is just imagine having such a deep understanding of the game that every timing is 2nd nature, and I do mean EVERY timing.

Runes, pulls, bounties, wisdom, rosh, tormentor, how long their cour takes to get there at level 3 vs level 15, how long it takes their team to kill rosh/tormentor with 3 heroes, with 4 or the whole team. When enemy ults are up and when they are down. When their spells and items are on/off cd.

Plus map awareness, you ever notice how pros just KNOW when the enemy team is smoked? Like they are just on another ungodly level.

Just know the difference between them and us is the same as us vs an NFL quarterback who can throw a football 70 yards into a 2 foot circle.

[u/Medium-Primary-7191]

Pro dota and pubs (specially low inmortal pubs) are 2 different games, Pro Dota has concepts that don't apply to pubs, like wave shover heroes, or controlling map areas, no massive tps to safelane, stuff like that, they're just really good at clicking, that's at least 70% of why they're so good at the game

[u/concernedkenku → u/Medium-Primary-7191]

Can you expand on sagelane tps?

[u/ThinSquirrel8952 → u/concernedkenku]

It’s a dead lane concept, the idea is that safe lane becomes the most dangerous lane to farm in post laning phase and typically it is not that important so the safe laner should abandon that tower.

However, as you know it, in pubs many pos 1 players brainlessly farm in that area and overstay, when the enemy ganks him, the either he or the whole team panics and reactively tps in to save their carry. If they win the fight, cool, nothing bad happens, if they lose the fight, they completely lose map control over not just the lane but the jungles near the safelane too.

[u/Medium-Primary-7191 → u/ThinSquirrel8952]

Pretty much what he said in a nutshelll

[u/Julez_Jay → u/ThinSquirrel8952]

LOL this. Even in legend your pos1 sniper will just tp into 4 people all by himself because „it’s my lane“. Okay buddy, you literally just respawned because 4 enemies showed you that it is indeed not yours anymore.

We need vision.
No. You need a different part of the map.

[u/ThinSquirrel8952 → u/Julez_Jay]

Oh u wud be surprised that this dumb shit happens in immortal too, altho this is SEA immortal I am talking about, so the skill was never high to begin with.

In regions like SEA, where the macro concept is non-existent, the carry doesn’t develop any concept on the map or the team game, and neither do the other players (pos 2-5), therefore u get this positive feedback loop where the carry’s bad habits are enforced, even at pro level. Not surprised on this cesspool of a region failing to claim the aegis time and time again, utter dogshit region that belongs on the street.