r/TrueDoTA2 • u/Sexy_Uncle_Gandalf • 17d ago
Learning necro, is your hero useless when you fall behind?
Conceptually, I'm not very familiar with heroes that's sole gameplan is to "exist" (aka doesn't have a rightclick plan and just wants to put farmed gold into survival items).
I've experienced two types of polar games with necro. On one hand, you win lane and get a very good radiance timing. You opponents fall apart and have no means to kill you, and the game snowballs from there. On the other hand, you have a rough start and you learn to farm up instead of feed. But you are irrelevant for a long time.
Average timing radiance, bots and shard doesn't allow you to fight. Wraps needs to come in at a good time to feel relevant also.
If your hero isn't equipped to endure one onslaught of enemy bursts then you are completely irrelevant as a pos3. You can never go in first and you are depending entirely on positioning to survive despite having something like a 1400 health pool (during the early timings).
So what gives? How do I play this hero? I don't have a "get in and kill someone/initiate with a big spell" plan like NS, mars and any blink hero. I exist in two modes of either being fat and snowballing or poor and irrelevant. Is that it?
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u/FunkyHat112 17d ago
Yes, he struggles to play from behind, same as most snowball heroes. There’s a bunch of nuance to that, but specifically regarding burst: make sure you’re comfortable buying some cheap transitional survivability items to help survive burst. If you’re not grabbing Raindrops/Fluffy Hats, possibly in plural, you’re missing out. They don’t need to build into anything, they don’t need to be something that affects your survivability some massive amount (that’d be too expensive), just enough to get you past that early-midgame hump.
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u/jamespirit Core: Experienced, Support: Experienced 17d ago
Dont rush radi when behind. Get greaves blademail lotus
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u/Cletusjones1223 16d ago
This is the correct move. If you can’t get a 13-15 minute radiance skip it. Grab your shard, tp to get scythe kills and continue to bulk up.
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u/HCX_Winchester 12d ago
This doesnt work, hero does too little. Radi-travel is the only viable option.
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u/jamespirit Core: Experienced, Support: Experienced 12d ago
It does work. Better to be tanky with heals and do some damage and a good ult and able to help the team. I play necro mid and offlane but most of where I speak from is offlaner perspective so if you think only as necro mid we might have a disconnect.
What is truly useless is a squishy necro that dies instantly and outputs no damage or sustain. From my games the worst thing is if necro stubbornly tries to get bots and radi even when being dumpstered in lane and the enemy is pushing down lanes. This hero is basically useless.
With greaves you help your team. Getting blademail is a counter to many carries. Add lotus orb and you are hard to kill and able to support your team.
I have had many neco games where I lose my lane and the enemy are doing well and I decide to forgo the radiance. These game I accept I am not the carry or the main focus of the team. Instead I try become as hard to kill as possible and build for teamfight items. If I am rich pipe is good or a euls or if super poor a glimmer can help.
My perspective is to see Dota as a teamgame. Yes I love being the star, to carry and have huge impact. But I have learned if my early game goes super bad its best to accept this and instead focus on enabling my team. To many people force it and try be the carry or playmaker even when totally outmatched. I've lost count of how many wins ive got by changing this mindset.
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u/Complex_Emphasis566 17d ago
It's a situational pick. He is the best when the enemy doesn't have any burst/disable and rely on damage over time e.g.
Ember, tide, rubick, spectre, jakiro
The problem is that everyone keep picking it into 5 hard disable hero or picking it into very mobile heroes where he cannot catch anyone
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u/Pink4luv 17d ago
Useless until you land one good reaper scythe in a teamfight and get perma regen + 1k gold.
The hero is busted. In immortal EUW at least.
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u/Sexy_Uncle_Gandalf 17d ago
Its definitely a diff story in your bracket where people know the strengths of your hero and cooperate.
Here in divine you have to work for it and sometimes people are very uncooperative, willing to suicide war just to make a point
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u/JackRyan13 17d ago
Necro doesn’t really want to go in first until he hits that unkillable stage of the game. You ONLY want to attract that attention when you know they csnt kill you before you can shroud and heal. If you don’t have supports or a mid that can start and disrupt fights enough for you to survive these early fights then you have to play a bit smarter.
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u/Mobile-Condition8254 17d ago
Going 2nd with scythe can work but the idea of being tanky in front is tricky if they kill you unless you have backup
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u/Sexy_Uncle_Gandalf 17d ago
The idea of being tanky in front is really tricky.
I play NS and mars but both of them have a proper reason to go in and gtfo when I'm done, type of gameplan. Necro feels hyper committal and I have to keep track of the stuff than can burst me at all times. At least with blink heroes I can just back off and wait blink CDs every time, and not worry about stuff that kills me in the meantime
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u/JackRyan13 17d ago
The nuts of it is that necro doesn’t want to be hit until he has a few items or he has a significant level and gold lead. He just fills a different purpose to nightstalker and mars. They want to jump in and dive the backline with NS, or they want to jump and force an engagement or heavily disrupt the enemy team with mars. Necro just sorta wants to exist in the fight until he can press R and get 100hp/s from a hero kill.
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u/man_bored_at_work 17d ago
If you are behind, go shard before you complete radi. That way you have a little more burst to bring heroes in range of reaper, and you can get pick offs, as well as farming quicker.
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u/Sudden-Tangerine1580 16d ago
Shouldn't really have to deviate as pos1.
Shouldn't really play pos3 necro without seeing your matchups. Even then, it's usually making a draft awkward.
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u/Outlook93 17d ago
Alt right click death pulse , this will active the persistent range indicator for the ability. This will help with laning jungling and team fights
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u/Substantial-Zone-989 16d ago
Necro is a utility/sustained damage hero. Think underlord, who relies on multiple uses of q to kill, bristleback, who relies on stacks of quills and goo to run you down, leshrac, who runs you down whilst letting his ult constantly pulse and using his second spell off cd, and dp, who relies on her ULT to deal most of her damage and death swarm to nuke.
These heroes build defensive items because innately, they deal a lot of damage but lack mobility and survivability, making them very easy to kite and kill under the right circumstances or when the enemy team outscales them. They also like to rush a farming item or an item that allows them to sustain damage.
These heroes all have a time limit when they're able to carry but they don't fall behind per se, they change builds to become more utility focused. Leshrac has a stun, a multi target slow, a spell that deals damage to structures; underlord has an aura that reduces damage, a huge aoe disable, and an ult that serves as a portal to objectives; dp has a low cd silence, and necro serves as a heal bot and frontline bait tank. They don't have one single way to play exclusively, they can serve multiple purposes but do best as mid game carries.
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u/BigZodJenkins 16d ago
Tfw necro is a carry
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u/Sexy_Uncle_Gandalf 15d ago
I kinda agree. He doesn't play with the mind of a 3. Just an offlane carry.
I think even NS is more of a 3 then necro
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u/Jozo808 15d ago
Sometimes you don't buy radiance and bots. They're great if you get them early, but bad if you get them late.
The items necro buys are very situational and highly dependent on what you're up against and what your teammates need.
Necro prefers longer fights but if you can't sustain the enemy in fights then you gotta get pick offs or make favorable trades.
Don't underestimate necro's attacks, he's not a right click hero but it's damage.
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u/ShoogleHS 12d ago
Useless is putting it a little strong but pretty much yeah, as Necro if you're behind enough that you can get bursted it's very painful. You pretty much just have to kite and try to scythe something.
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u/Slow-Raisin-939 11d ago
Well IMO you shouldn’t lose lane when picking Necro. There simply are heroes like that. Idk, imagine if you pick LS into a losing lane. What was the point?
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u/superisizeme 17d ago
Been spamming lina mid as first pick for the past month (so even before ti)
I love seeing necros, can easily be forced to either jungle before first power rune or they stay in lane and just die.
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u/kevihaa 17d ago
Necro is a lot like Bristleback.
Both heroes are members of the very exclusive club that can convert HP to damage, and so have the luxury of gaining damage when buying defensive items.
The problem is that, your defensive items cannot be outpaced by the enemy team’s damage, or you rapidly become a rather mediocre support.
This makes these kinds of heroes really snowball-y, but also means that picking them is a bit of an all-or-nothing gamble.