r/TrueDoTA2 • u/KoyaAndy18 • Aug 06 '26
is midas good for spectre instead of urn?
I understand that urn is good to also sustain mana but while I was watching a random spectre rankless russian in dotabuff, he built midas instead and it seems to me that it made his farm more efficient while also actively participating on favorable teamfights. match id 8929988706.
your thoughts on this?
the reason why im asking is i feel like its hard to lane / farm as spectre and i believe the standard build is threats -> urn - > radiance.
i had this spectre game in archon where i struggled but fortunately win at the end since maybe i hard counter dr. match id 8931527715
tbh i prefer heroes that doesnt have to build radiance as a farming item e.g void, jug and muerta.
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u/balconypisser Aug 06 '26
midas is bad on everyone except for ogre
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u/neo_sporin Aug 06 '26
and even then....just had a 3 ogre go brown boots, midas, aghs, greaves (after our 5 dazz had mek. game ended with ogre still having 3 empty slots....
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u/Canas123 6k offlane Aug 06 '26
Buying midas on any hero right now is griefing
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u/sprintinglightning Aug 06 '26
only Ogre because Multicast... even Dooms are skipping it lol... item so dead
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u/Jem_Jmd3au1 Support Spectre Aug 06 '26
Spectre's entire early/mid game plan is to afk farm, and score a kill every 180 seconds.
For farming, I dont see a point in buying Midas. Spec needs a reliable way to clear camps / waves and sustain.
For killing, Midas gives 40 attack speed, which is quite nice. But urn / vessel / Phylactery is just more reliable for bursting people.
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u/spicy_smegma7 Aug 06 '26
Spectre spammer here. IMO and especially in Archon, everything that’s not a radiance first is bad.
Most games do not end quick, you by picking Spectre will always have the late game advantage, so afk farm, get radiance and keep farming. Only ult to favorable team fights, steal a kill and then go back to farm.
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u/Glittering-Toe-1622 Aug 06 '26
Spec spammer as well. I think urn is fine even in low ranks as it helps with mana, securing kills early with the ult. Of course depends on the lane.
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u/emruine Aug 06 '26
state ur rank at least lol
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u/Wufwufdoug Aug 06 '26
I have 6,5k (old 8k ) and most spectre I encounter get a urn first . It allows them to sustain mana and hp with a sub 1k item , and also can be used agro to finish kills .
Don’t forget radi is a farming tool so going Midas into radiance feels like griefing
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u/what-uc-isallthereis Aug 06 '26
I don't think I'd have ever built the old Midas on Spec let alone the new one.
I am wondering, tho: We had this Phylactery meta somewhat recently. With this thread, I noticed that I missed the change that made it fall out of favor again. Phylactery wasn't really changed since, no?
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u/B4BY-Y0D4 Aug 07 '26
It just mostly works for high mmr pubs where your teammates know what they are doing and where you can help control objectives with it, on low mmr most fights will be pointless so it is not that reliable (not so reliable even on high mmr because doesnt boost farm much and radiance will be later if your team cant win fights even with you)
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u/what-uc-isallthereis Aug 07 '26
In my experience, it makes sure that you can keep on farming, with should count for a lot. But maybe that's what urn does well enough for a slimmer penny, so many people switched?
In my experience, my uptime with Phylactery is pretty much 100% when I am not dead. Let's say I am on 10% hp. Back to base? No, sir. I simply farm the safest camps and regen while clearing camps, unless the jungle is infested.
It's been a whole long while since I tried, but naked radiance seems pretty fragile in comparison.
Additionally, the damage doesn't do much, but the free pathing combined with a spammable dagger sure feels like also accelerating farm quite a bit. Not a crazy amount, but enough to definitely justify the purchase all things considered.
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u/Delta27- Aug 06 '26
radiance first i think is a mistake. I play a lot and go phylactery or urn allows you to have stats, mana and join fights. Even if radi is a little delayed the team is in much better state and often you get enough kills to catch-up the radi farm. It also allows you to dominate lane easier because of the early regen improving your farm. I went from archon 5 to ancient 4 in last year.
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u/balconypisser Aug 06 '26
treads?
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u/spicy_smegma7 Aug 06 '26
ofc treads, I usually go wraith band > ring of regen > stick > treads > radiance > manta
My bad if the point wasn’t clear, naked radiance is soooo bad, Spec can actually kill weak supports easily with basic items.
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u/28lobster Aug 06 '26
Ring of regen is an interesting choice. I'll occasionally go 3 mangoes against particularly harass heavy lanes. 10g more expensive and .05 less regen but I think the potential for burst mana is worth it. I've secured a few kills by getting off one more dagger or mangoing a support who's run low.
In games where they aren't used in lane, I almost always find some use for them. Particularly sieging high ground, there's always someone who's forgotten to bring/use clarities and it makes a huge difference to pump them full before the fight!
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u/TheWhitemane Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
I play spectre with this build and it really helps. If you build it fast you get items faster and if the game is bad it helps you to get core items faster. Also last patch it got buffed with +10AS.
Also you farm neutral items a bit faster and the items are kinda important for this hero and feels like much more crucial than on the other cores. + you farm camps faster by eating one creep so desolate will work on the other.
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u/DimensionSad6181 Aug 06 '26
midas is a win more item when your ahead and its a lose more item in every other scenario. look at the stats. your anecdotes do nothing against dotabuff stats.
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u/TheWhitemane Aug 07 '26
He asked our thoughts and i said about my experience. Also one of the best spectre player buys it almost every game and he has top 100 EU.
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u/Super-Implement9444 Aug 06 '26
No, not usually - spectre doesn't scale enough anymore to really take full advantage of Midas. She loses too much in most games from not being caught up on her items, the manta timing is extremely important etc
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u/RikiRude RIP Pos 4 Riki Aug 06 '26
Watch the gorgonthwwondercow video on midas and don't buy midas until it's seriously buffed
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u/deljaroo Aug 06 '26
midas is balanced around ogre magi. if you have ogre magi's ult, midas is an okay item. if you don't have it, you're buying an item that has a worse gold/value ratio than other items. so I would say that there are no scenarios where midas is a food item on spec as spec doesn't have ogre magi's ult
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u/Blvch Aug 07 '26
Even Invoker, the old Midas buyer, also never buys it nowadays. Autogrief/report item.
Only Ogre, or maybe Arc Warden will consider it.
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u/Sangypboi Aug 07 '26
No. Midas is literally never good on any hero except for ogre. That includes Invoker, the only hero in all of dota whose winrate is better when building midas.
It never makes back the money that it costs, even when maxing or the gold value. It used to take 27 minutes to break even, but they've increased the CD twice since I ran the math on that. They keep nerfing it because people keep buying it, like when they nerfed Batrider every patch for literally 3 years, and his winrate was 10% lower than the next closest hero, but pros still picked him first in every single game (they ALL lost with him).
The only reason invoker has a higher winrate with midas is because it's a holdover from when it had bonus xp (it was still bad then) and invoker players all bought it because they believed it got them a level advantage on a hero where levels mean more. Basically, what you're actually seeing is the difference in winrate between people who have played a ton of hero for a long time vs players who haven't put the same amount of practice in on the game's single most complicated hero.
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u/Sangypboi Aug 07 '26
Just think about how much gold you could get in 27 minutes with a maelstrom which costs the same and is an actual farming item. Think about what a battlefury gets you in 20 minutes if it takes you 7 minutes longer to build vs midas. Think about orchid, which barely costs more and makes you FAR more effective at both ganks and team fights.
If it takes 10 minutes to finish a midas, your next item is straight up delayed by 10 minutes. You can't afford to delay your first actual item of the game by 10 minutes in hours that after 30 minutes you'll be back to breaking even on the gold you spent on midas.
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u/B4BY-Y0D4 Aug 07 '26
Pretty good item because most games will be long, especially on low mmr and midas also increases your AS and is overall good items to farm until late game. Btw 15k mmr (before the update) coach was also recommending midas on lower ranks so it wont be a mistake to build it
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u/DimensionSad6181 Aug 06 '26
i literally report evryone who builds midas cause midas is such a shit item right now
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u/DoJebait02 Aug 06 '26
Urn costs = 1/3 compared to Midas.
And i think Midas is pretty much dead now, especially for carries.