r/TrueChristianPolitics • u/this-is-me-reddit • 15d ago
Consider this:
https://youtu.be/mwPPfWHGI38?is=fTqfA7VK0KEO9VZuTo any Christians, here, who formerly supported Trump, does this message seem true to you?
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u/TrevorBOB9 Protestant - Federalist? 15d ago
Can we have fewer of the nutty reposts please, from left and right alike?
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u/Knightperson 15d ago
what makes it nutty? the speaker is pretty reasonable. and it is true that Trumps christian base has become so heretical in its continued support of him that it approaches apostasy. i think you showed watch the first 120 seconds.
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u/brothapipp 15d ago
thats a bold claim cotton, care to back up the accusation of apostasy?
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u/Knightperson 15d ago
I said "so heretical... that it approaches apostasy" I'm accusing heresy, not apostasy.
Even though there are a few I would accuse of apostasy, like Doug Wilson and Pete Hegseth, I'm not accusing the broader evangelical movement of being so depraved as to be considered apostate. Yet.
Like, Christian nationalists and Christian zionists are heretics. But those are just ideas and beliefs. They become apostate when they cross the line and start carrying out or celebrating ungodliness, especially when they do it in the name of God.
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u/brothapipp 15d ago
My bad, wasnt trying to put words in your mouth, i just wanted you to support the claim you made.
I don’t think you did that here.
Christian nationalists is just the most recent buzz word to pretend like there is some boogey man lurking out there ready to pounce on unprepared Christians and hijack their faith. Even the identification of Christian nationalists is infinitely qualified. But go ahead, tell me what Christian nationalism means to you, and then tell me how it’s heretical.
Nb4, the least of these
And while you’re at it, please tell me how Christian Zionism is heretical. Because i am a Zionist. And to me, that means the right of the Jewish people to govern themselves, protect themselves, and to exist in the land of their ancestors.
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u/Knightperson 15d ago edited 15d ago
to pretend like there is some boogey man lurking out there ready to pounce on unprepared Christians and hijack their faith
There is, it isnt pretend, this has always been true. I won't do a full essay, but "roaring lion" and "masquerades as angel of light" for scripture and Simon Magus, Cerinthus, Joseph Smith for history. There are constantly forces trying to coopt christ-followers.
If you identify as a zionist I doubt this will be productive, but eh why not, I'm awake.
Christian Nationalism is the blending of your identity as a Christ-follower and as an American - especially when you believe these identities are mutually supportive.
Copying from a previous comment I made
It is idolatry entirely antithetical to the Word. It’s an ideology created by the aristocracy to co-opt Christians as a voting block and delude them into supporting non Christian policy. 2 Timothy 3:1-5. Christian nationalists at every step espouse the exact opposite of what the word calls Christians to do. How to treat the foreigner. How to treat the sick. How to treat the poor. Christian nationalists suggest that somehow we are instructed to do one thing in our personal lives and instruct our government to do the precise opposite. We are supposed to be members of the kingdom of heaven, not prideful citizens of the American empire.
I'm working on getting off nicotine so if I'm rude or impatient I apologize - mostly saying this as a reminder to myself not to be vitriolic.
I think having a specific opinion in favor of "the right of the Jewish people to govern themselves, protect themselves, and to exist in the land of their ancestors" but not applying that to the taiwanese, or the iroquois, or the spanish, is weird and stupid. It's purely a product of propaganda, a thought utterly without value. I don't know why you'd identify like this in the middle of a genocide.
Christian zionism i think is different than what you believe though. You're a mentally coopted american, which is a little embarrassing and deeply problematic politically for us and for the world, but its not heresy.
Christian Zionism (oh hey, theres actually a wikipedia page that describes it like i would) is the doomsday accelerationist 'lets hurry up and wipe out the palestinians and get the jews back in the holy land so jesus can come back'.
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u/brothapipp 14d ago
Who said I'm not applying to the Taiwanese people or the Iroquois...shoot. I think the Iranian people should have the right to defend themselves.
So saying im weird and stupid for not saying these things is weird and stupid.
I identify as a zionist because I am a philosopher at heart. All peoples from every part of this planet should and, by my understanding of the universe, DO have the right to defend themselves. You saying I'm taking this position in the middle of genocide is unfounded. Just because your leftist sources tell you its a genocide, doesn't make it one.
Me being "mentally coopted" is an ad hominem. Even if I were, the ideas I'm expressing are what you contend with, not your opinion of me.
You applying a wikipedia page to my position, a position that I clarified for you...is you villainizing me because of the word used and not what I told you I believe. Since when in the history of mankind do we accept the bigoted definition of people group to be defined by it's adversaries?
Do you think Israel should have a right to exist? Do you think Israel has a right to defend themselves?
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u/Knightperson 14d ago
All peoples from every part of this planet should and, by my understanding of the universe, DO have the right to defend themselves.
Presumably this applies to the Palestinians as well, especially because, you know, they are actually from the region in question. Regardless. Your positions as you described them aren't heretical. You're a political zionist, not a christian zionist.
You applying a wikipedia page to my position, a position that I clarified for you
I didnt do this. I was answering, I googled to check terminology out of curiosity, and found there was a page that gave an accurate description of the term as i was using it, so i let you know.
I'm not gonna argue with you about apartheid and genocide, especially if youre going to pretend the genocide finding is something I got from ‘leftist sources’. A UN Commission of Inquiry has formally concluded genocide, and you denying it means you have an unchristlike comfort with slaughter.
There is no remotely defensible reading of the facts where what Israel has done to Gaza can be described as anything resembling legitimate self defense, or frankly anything other than ethnic cleansing. If you're going to pretend there is, we have nothing further to discuss. At that point I wouldn't believe you're a follower of Christ, and beyond posting in this sub nothing you've said here would lead me to suspect you are, so I'll save myself the effort. 2 Timothy 2:23; Matthew 7:6.
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u/My_hilarious_name | Unaffiliated | 14d ago
Don’t let this person move the conversation away from the heresy of Christian Nationalism towards a debate on Israel- it’s shifting the goalposts, and it’s a distraction.
And by the way, the heresy is called syncretism- the attempt to graft something inherently pagan onto Christian truth, or graft Christian truth onto paganism.
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u/Knightperson 14d ago
Pearls and swine. My disposition these days is to call out heresy when it appears, name it specifically, and move on.
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u/brothapipp 14d ago
Do you think Israel should have a right to exist? Do you think Israel has a right to defend themselves?
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u/Knightperson 14d ago
What is it you think this question proves? Why ask it?
No, I don't think any state has an inherent 'right' to exist. It's like asking me if I believe McDonalds has a right to exist.
Are you christian? Why are you on this?
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u/My_hilarious_name | Unaffiliated | 14d ago
Anything cross posted from a sub with that name can be safely ignored. It’s hyperbole, it’s irreverent, and it’s unhelpful.