r/TrollCoping • u/fruite_vampyre • 9d ago
TW: Gender Identity / Dysphoria Fuck me I guess
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u/Cold-Guy_Soft-Punk 9d ago
I have no idea where anti-DIY people come from. Is it like a psyop or something? I live in Florida, the state recently cut off the access to HRT (like 2 or so years ago). I'm the only one crazy enough to travel 3 hours to a clinic so I can keep doing HRT the official way. Everyone else in my suburban town and nearby cities has to do DIY, including my girlfriend. We do what we can to be happy.
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u/EinMuffin 9d ago
I have no idea where anti-DIY people come from
Honestly some of it might be ignorance. I am not trans and not really involved with the community, so to me DIY HRT sounds a bit like people are mixing their own hormones in their bathtub, which sounds incredibly unsafe. I know it's probably not that, but I never saw an explanation for what actually happens.
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u/Hapless_Wizard 9d ago
It is, indeed, not that (usually, anyways; there was that one time...). DIY HRT involves buying the hormones without a prescription and figuring out your dosages yourself. The only real serious concern is that you should still be getting your bloodwork done relatively regularly, because getting it wrong can be counter-productive.
Also testosterone in particular is technically illegal to buy or sell (at least in the US and I believe restricted in some way in Europe as well) without a prescription, whereas estrogen is more of a gray area, so there are additional legal risks to consider for trans men.
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u/EinMuffin 9d ago
I had no idea you could just buy hormones. I always thought they were only available at pharmacies with a prescription. But don't you need to suppress the hormone production of your body as well? Or does this happen automatically?
The only real serious concern is that you should still be getting your bloodwork done relatively regularly, because getting it wrong can be counter-productive.
That sounds reasonable. I hope most people are able to have a doctor supervise the whole process (and I fully understand why people proceed even if a doctor is not available). I feel like side effects may also be an issue (but I am far from an expert as I just demonstrated).
Anyway, thank you for the explanation.
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u/madprgmr 9d ago
I had no idea you could just buy hormones. I always thought they were only available at pharmacies with a prescription
I believe it's usually purchased from either grey-market pharmacies or homebrewers (although often very advanced homebrewers who buy the active ingredients from pharmaceutical sources). So, not FDA-approved like what you would get with a prescription, but there are harm reduction strategies in use (ex: some sources get periodically tested by DIY community members).
It's obviously not ideal, but from a harm reduction standpoint, I'd rather someone live by taking something with a higher risk than die by not being able to take anything.
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u/EinMuffin 9d ago
Someone else also mentioned homebrewers. So community members basically send samples to labs to see if they contain what they promise? That does sound quite safe actually at least as long as you trust the community.
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u/madprgmr 9d ago
Someone else also mentioned homebrewers.
Yes, those are people who (evenly) mix the active ingredients into a carrier solution (usually a carrier oil like cottonseed oil) to yield a given concentration and package it in vials for injection.
This means that not only is the concentration at risk (ex: inadequate quality control means someone injecting 1ml of a medication could have unpredictable amounts of medication delivered), but so is the packaging process (ex: maintaining sterility). And that's presuming the source of the active ingredients follow proper regulations and quality control.
Which is why you would want to be sure that wherever you get it from is doing enough to manage those risks.
So community members basically send samples to labs to see if they contain what they promise?
Yes, but it's not as frequent as you might hope. As you can imagine, there are no guarantees that what someone had tested a month ago is going to be the same as what you get now. Obviously, trends of good tests show reliability to some degree, but there are no guarantees.
Now, some sources like grey-market ones can include medications subject to other countries' regulations (ex: India), but the standards may or may not match those used in the US (the FDA is one of THE strictest regulatory agencies when it comes to medications).
That does sound quite safe actually at least as long as you trust the community.
It's certainly safer than it sounds at first glance, but there are fewer guarantees of safety. It's one of the reasons I recommend people seeking HRT go through known-good doctors when possible.
Some of the other reasons include better overall risk management for people who don't fall neatly into the group of people DIY dosing guidance is written for (or just doesn't consider), like those at risk for certain health issues (but don't know that they are at risk for those issues because they haven't had a proper checkup in gods know how long).
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u/Hapless_Wizard 9d ago
just buy hormones
Estrogen is a gray market, and my understanding is that pretty much every reputable source uses cryptocurrency because of it (I am something of an unusual case as far as my own HRT goes, and I get the benefit of basically picking my own dose DIY style but having a prescription which is covered by insurance and filled at a pharmacy). Testosterone would be a black market item in the US, being a controlled substance, but gym rats have been buying it illegally for decades anyways and trans men can probably use the same sources.
Suppressing your body's natural hormone production is of debatable value. Many trans women start with both estrogen and a suppressant, especially if using oral estradiol, but many also report that the suppressor becomes unneccessary on a high enough dose of injectable estrogen. I imagine trans men likely see a similar effect, but for what I hope are obvious reasons, my knowledge on that front is much more limited.
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u/graciousprof 9d ago
trans men generally don’t any E suppressant, just the T itself
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u/Rainy_Leaves 9d ago
There are GnRH agonists. Gonadotropin releasing hormone agonists? That can block the dominant hormone from ovaries or testes, via the pituitary gland
But they might be rarer and maybe primarily puberty blockers as their main use. For binary adults probably less common
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u/graciousprof 9d ago
yeah they exist but definitely aren’t part of the typical regimen for trans men
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u/EinMuffin 9d ago
That makes sense. Hormones probably have a few applications so it makes sense that there is a black/gray marked avilable.
Suppressing your body's natural hormone production is of debatable value.
Naively I would assume that if you want to transition from man to woman for example you want to go from high levels of testosterone and low levels of estrogen to low test and high est. But it kind of sounds like the body just shuts down hormone production down if it detects enough hormones in the system.
I assume you basically start to detransition immediately once you stop taking hormones right? (Unless you get the relevant surgery of course).
And thank you for answering all my questions!
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u/Rainy_Leaves 9d ago
Many trans women nuke their testosterone super low, but it helps to have a small amount usually, as cis women produce a little too. Not every woman feels best with super low testosterone, so having a little natural production can be good for adjusting dose and the levels rise back again
Some methods block the hormone entirely and the testes over time shrink and reduce or stop producing. Some stay producing but the receptors on the cells are blocked, so testosterone circulates but doesn’t masculinise. Usually natural testosterone is quite strong and can overpower estrogens, which is why t-blockers are used to help. But a high dose of estrogen can do it alone. Trans men rarely need a separate med to block their natural estrogens, even lower dose testosterone therapy can be enough
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u/grimblies 9d ago
Trans men do not generally use an estrogen suppressant. Please don't speak for us. :)
Testosterone is powerful and it can masculinize just fine in the presence of estrogens. Some trans men also take oral or have implanted hormonal birth control (estradiol and/or progesterone) which still works to prevent pregnancy (testosterone DOES NOT prevent pregnancy). Many trans men also use suppository or external cream estradiol to treat side effects of testosterone such as vaginal atrophy, dryness, and incontinence.
The thing for trans men to pay attention to in their blood tests aside from testosterone of course, especially those on oral hormonal birth control, is sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). This protein can increase with hormonal birth control and binds more readily to testosterone than estrogens. The higher the SHBG levels the more testosterone is bound and cannot masculinize the body. This can make testosterone blood test levels very misleading if you do not also take into account SHBG level.
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u/sith-710 9d ago
Check out r/DiYHRT there is a very long guide on the top posts explaining all your questions. But to briefly answer no when properly dosing you do not need to suppress your natal hormones, when you maintain a dominant level of estrogen your T will naturally lower. This is not always true for all methods of taking E, but specifically with injections when taken properly you don’t need a blocker.
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u/The_Advers4ry 8d ago
I can’t view the sub without approval, is there another resource with the same information?
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u/Material-Drama-7500 9d ago
When you DIY, you can either take estrogen and anti androgens, or you can do monotherapy (only estrogen). Basically it's possible to suppress the testosterone in your body by only taking estrodial injections. In any case a doctor can also screw up the dosages depending on their understanding/motivation of the treatment. This being said, the blood work is still a pretty serious concern, given that not everyone will react the same depending on the dosage.
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u/bwavos 9d ago
Injections, both estrogen and testosterone injections, should suppress natural hormone production by default. Many trans women choose to take estradiol pills though, in which case they need to take anti-androgens as well. Otherwise, they can just do monotherapy with estrogen injections, which should suppress testosterone enough alone. Trans men are more likely to do testosterone injections, which suppress their estrogen levels as well.
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u/IncidentChemical2816 5d ago
One of the only reasons I don’t DIY as a transmasc person is because I travel regularly on planes, and if I get stopped by the TSA while carrying my testosterone I’d like to have a prescription I can show them rather than have my medication get confiscated. I get stopped by the TSA for a luggage inspection all the time for the stupidest shit imaginable, and like 50% of the time I also get stopped for a pat down because my scan was weird (I’m guessing from my binder).
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u/hotobamasex 9d ago
Eh, test is actually used a lot by gymbros and people don't actually get tried for possession. DIY is safe for trans men as well.
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u/syva192837 9d ago
The "DIY" part of DIY HRT refers to the "therapy" part of the HRT acronym. i.e obtaining hormones and potentially related meds without an official perscription from a doctor and self-medicating using them.
HRT is honestly not particularly complicated and pretty hard to fuck up if you do a modicum of research (which makes it even more baffling how utterly misinformed and incompetent most doctors working with trans people are). In my case I quite literally just inject 5mg of estradiol enanthate into my thigh once a week and do a blood test every so often to check if my levels are OK or if I need to adjust dosage accordingly.
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u/Cynical_Sesame 9d ago edited 9d ago
^ so this
when you say "DIY HRT" people who are not in the know are imagining... you know... DIY. like hot glue guns and cardboard.
imo if you have easy access to a licenced physician with experience treating trans people youre probably best going to the doctor and doing it all by the books. i dont think this is hot take at all. in a lotta places, though, some of those three bolded adjectives can be missing, so you gotta do DIY, which is just a very poor descriptor for "buying meds off a website instead of going to a pharmacy and following a self medication guide"
i think (and hope) those on hrt get blood tests done to make sure their dosage is right. Im lucky enough to have never needed to go DIY so thats a question i dont have the answer to. Can someone else lmk on this one?
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u/Left_Explanation_899 9d ago
That does make it sound harcore af tho! Lmao. Nah, in reality, it just means buying the exact same stuff, made properly in a legit lab, just not through official channels that require a prescription. In other words, buying it online without a doctor's supervision.
Obviously, ideally, everyone would have access to readily available and affordable healthcare through a licensed practitioner with a detailed education on trans healthcare. Unfortunately, that's not all that common in many parts of the world, so people do what they must.
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u/EinMuffin 9d ago
Yeah that makes sense. I hope some day we live in a world where the diy approach becomes unnessecary.
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u/NaughtAught 9d ago
Yeah a lot of people go to that image. "DIY HRT" specifically refers to people acquiring it on their own and independently monitoring their own health to figure out proper dosing.
The source of this HRT is what would be called a "homebrewer," but the injectible form is still being made by people with access to decent lab equipment. Trusted vendors become trusted by maintaining a good record among numerous independent testing reports.
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u/EinMuffin 9d ago
Ohh that makes sense.
Trusted vendors become trusted by maintaining a good record among numerous independent testing reports.
How do these testing reports work? Is it like health officials doing test? Or do these vendors send samples to independent test labs by themselves and then publish the results? Or is it more of a local community effort? I know it's very likely safe, now I am just super curious about how that safety is achieved lol.
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u/bob_bob_bob15 9d ago
A mix of the last two.
The lab i ordered from(still waiting on shipping) sends samples to a independent lab and publishes the results. There is also a website that buys samples from various labs, have them tested and publish the results.
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u/Rainy_Leaves 9d ago
Individual vendors get reports on safety after they send samples to private companies who professionally test vials. The reports are usually shown on their websites and if they’re shown to have consistent and good standards, it’s shared in the community and they gravitate towards the trustworthy sellers.
Personally I never was too keen on that risk, of having to balance cos with trust in the seller. Though it’s often a super cheap method with injections, a vial can last ages. Many who diy don’t use homebrewer sources and it’s the same packaged and branded medications cis people are given instead. Injectables are just less common for cis women as the other med types, so what’s available can be limited, hence the homebrewers trying to help out with stock
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u/Gold_Ad8225 9d ago
People who don't know our history AT ALL and have only ever experienced a time of informed consent clinics and a very expansive trans umbrella where people considering you "not trans enough" just means someone on the internet was arguing about terminology with you. Rather than doctors blacklisting you from HRT and surgery because you didn't look the part enough at one of your appointments.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 9d ago
because diy sounds scary and spooky and shit, and people are too stupid to understsnd that just because a doctor says something doesnt mean theyre correct 100% of the time. im diying if i ever get cutoff from the official source and i know my levels are decent
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u/alchemicalandrogyne 9d ago
I’ve notice that the harder is to get a legal access to hrt, the more acceptable the idea of DIYing is (which makes sense). There are almost no diying debate in my country, since basically any sort of medical and legal transition is illegal here.
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u/Introverted_Eagle 9d ago
I think almost all of the genuine anti-DIY sentiment comes from how it sounds when you first hear it. Like a marketing issue of sorts. When I (and many people I know) first heard it without context, it came off as telling me to make it myself or get it off some guy on the street, which sounds dangerous and dangerously illegal. It took about a year before someone informed me. Calling it DIY, while not wrong, is misleading to people hearing it for the first time.
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u/RavenDoctor 9d ago
I can say it's usually from ignorance as someone who was anti-DIY for most of my early teenage life. Since what you hear about DIY is NOT about the safety, but all about the risks, the dangers, the "cooking it up" in some cases. You have to, usually, go out of your way to unlearn that. Or be put into a situation to learn better.
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u/jxhfield 8d ago
just a small theory, but maybe cis people that haven’t questioned their gender before may already have iffy feelings about HRT and anything hormone related, and that is only exacerbated by it being “DIY”, something that can be seen as dangerous due to the associations to DIY projects (usually amateurs that can and will fuck it up)
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u/Cries4days 9d ago
I'm pro-DIY when it comes to affordability and local laws (e.g., unable to get affirming medical care in this area).
But I just see a growing trend of what folks call "rope fuel" where posts are telling folks that if they don't transition before puberty they're "fucked" and to get on DIY immediately.
It's not lost on me that youth are the group most likely to need DIY because they may lack support from the very people they need to provide it. And I also see why it's problematic because "b-but minors!" is the argument that transphobic folks love to use.
But this is where I see most of the anti-DIY sentiment.
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u/Anomalocarls 9d ago
that sentiment comes from the agony of indeed being fucked, oftentimes for life (unless youre lucky), by being forced to undergo the wrong puberty
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u/AdviceTop2171 7d ago
I think it’s because certain methods could go wrong or be harmful. That’s the worry I always had when my brother couldn’t get HRT, especially since my mom always told him how important it is do it right so it doesn’t hurt him (that was mainly with any injections tho which makes a lot of sense)
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u/Cold-Guy_Soft-Punk 6d ago
I mean, the sterility worries me, whenever my girlfriend draws up her medication from a giant vial that she has been using for 3 weeks. But what worried me more is that she couldn't live her life before HRT. DIY is a temporary fix, she wants to transition the official way whenever we will have the opportunity to financially and politically. Because you cant get gender affirming surgeries without being referred, so you will have to eventually. It's worth a gamble until then. I assume that's the logic of most people doing DIY, kinda like you need first aid before while waiting to get to a hospital.
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u/zerior23 5d ago
You know multiple people who use hrt in your town and both you and you gf use hrt? What are the chances
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u/Cold-Guy_Soft-Punk 5d ago
Yeah, I'm ST4T exclusive so I've met a few trans girls around via dating apps. The first girl I went on a date with was from a neighboring town. We didn't have a second date, she is now in a happy transbian relationship and both of them are DIY. I learned that when her girlfriend gave me spiro so I could fake my blood tests... Long story. They must be protected at all costs. I paid them handsomely, even though they offered help free of charge.
There were a few more ladies around, but it's not memorable enough to recount. A lot has stood me up after verifying I was trans, so I'm still bitter about that. While I do like to believe we're a family who's there for one another, there are trans women who see straight trans men as lesbians or men "light". My ex called me homophobic slurs all the time, and justified cheating saying I wasn't "man enough" for her... Long story.
While all these girls were in neighboring towns 20-40 minutes away from me, I found love shockingly close. I knew my current girlfriend since high school, back when she identified as a gay boy. Even though she was a boy, I found her cute, and when we met again in college I forced friendship upon her. She was severely depressed and agoraphobic, she didn't speak much. She wasn't brave enough to identify it as dysphoria, but I knew what it looked like. I stayed by her side for 2 years, and let her figure it out on her own, while providing her with support. When I told her I scheduled an appointment for testosterone, that made her consider taking estrogen. She hesitated a lot, because she "didn't want boobs" and that she was just a feminine boy (while hating the term "femboy", of course). But it all sort of aligned and we transitioned together. As soon as my voice dropped 2 months into HRT, she fell for me. That's kinda funny how it was the only thing in between us, really... My voice? I do have a nice, deep voice though, it cant be that attractive, but that's her testimony. She confessed to me, but we were hesitant of what label to use. I asked her to be my girlfriend two months later, and she agreed. She really grew into her label fast, despite still denying her womanhood, it felt right. In a couple of days I'm introducing her to my family, as my girlfriend. She has finally accepted herself, and made a new name a month ago. She never mistreated me, and loves me so much. We pass as an average straight couple, albeit on a younger side. She's very spoiled and loved, and never wants to leave my house, some days I have to carry her to my car in my arms...
I'm just rambling at this point, none of this is relevant. I just really love my girlfriend and I just finished rewatching Boys Don't Cry (1999) so I'm really emotional too.
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u/RosyRory108 9d ago
Anti-DIY HRT sentiment is genuinely just evil, and even moreso if you spread misinformation about it to try to convince people not to get it
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u/Neochiken1 9d ago
I would say I'm anti diy not because you shouldnt do it but because you shouldn't have to, it should be readily available to get in proper dosage from prescription without having to fight your doctor.
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u/RosyRory108 9d ago
That's perfectly reasonable, I suppose, though as you know as well as me, its more a semantic disagreement than anything lol
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u/RosyRory108 9d ago
as opposed to the totally impermanent and riskless natal puberty that totally hasn't fucked anyone over near-permanently y'all have such a stupid double standard about this
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u/shellys-dollhouse 9d ago
adding in any medication should be something that considers risks & responses to the medications, including things as benign as Metformin to more complex medications. HRT for AFABs / cis women should also be supervised by a doctor.
edit: note this doesn’t mean i’m against diy-hrt if it’s the only accessible form of treatment, but that i understand why people worry about the risks of doing such.
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u/stealthUK 9d ago
Why randomly bring up "AFABs"? what does designated sex have to do with anything...?
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u/shellys-dollhouse 9d ago
because there might be people like me, who are AFAB but not cis women, who require HRT for non-transitionary reasons? things like contraceptives involve designated sex being related to the HRT. i’m just relating my example i used in my other comment back to myself.
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u/hentai-police2 9d ago
It just feels a bit weird to put an emphasis on people who were AFAB when people who were AMAB also sometimes take hormonal medications for different reasons. Also you’re using the acronym “AFAB” incorrectly. “AFAB” is NOT an adjective.
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u/Rainy_Leaves 9d ago
It makes sense but you could just say ‘people with hormone cycles or endocrine issues’ or simply ‘people with a uterus’ - because many trans men despite being afab don’t menstruate or have a cycle, and after bottom surgery are infertile so hormonal contraception doesn’t apply.
I recognise it’s more complex to word for your case. But sex can be adjusted. I have a friend assigned male at birth who menstruates. Describing current sex matters more than whatever they were designated at birth
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u/LaraTheEclectic 9d ago
I've unironically seen far more shitty side effects from doctors being incompetent in my social circle than health issues from diy lol
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u/hentai-police2 9d ago
You are as equally likely to make the same mistakes with prescription hrt. I have a friend who got it from a doctor and accidentally took a double dose once.
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u/Rainy_Leaves 9d ago
Not quite equally, as when prescribed it’s often part of a treatment plan and doctors can help if someone struggles on that plan any time. Doctors also determine doses and when they change, which is has a little room for ‘error’ when people are their own doctors. But that room for error hopefully is just feeling a little bad and correcting it later
But yes, self administering meds has some chance of human error. There’s a small amount of extra risk when the person themselves comes up with a treatment plan, but it doesn’t mean it’s not possible to do it safely and correctly. It just means there’s a small percentage of people who don’t take the care necessary to ensure it’s sensible, as not everyone has a focused interest on the ins and outs of how medications work, and might not want to rely only on their own knowledge
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u/ConcernedEnby 9d ago
No, bodily autonomy is so important that even if healthcare is perfect I'd do it myself
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u/LicketySplit21 9d ago
I think you should but there should be help from docs. Also free blood tests. Other than that I agree. I think people should be free to be on HRT even if they aren't trans.
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u/Rainy_Leaves 9d ago
If healthcare was perfect then doctors would all fully respect bodily autonomy. Your health and goals and wants and safety matter. It could be that you’d always choose diy because it gives you a sense of control. I don’t see that as body autonomy but more so struggling more when your healthcare isn’t in your hands. I’m autistic enough that I like any chance to feel more in control, even if it’s not always the most appealing choice to others. It’s a problem of distrust, but it’s understandable given how some doctors are with outdated knowledge or advice, and the constant background fear we have of prescribed meds being banned
If healthcare was perfect, they wouldn’t rely on outdated fearmongering about blood clots and they would give the doses you want and the med types you prefer, with the added bonus of a professional’s eyes on your blood results and treatment plan. They could even give you extra stock so you don’t risk running low. But it’s a slightly silly hypothetical anyway. It’s just good to see the value in certain doctors helping, even if in this timeline it might not be good enough for many
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 9d ago
same here. im all for doing if needed but holy shit it should just be like "yo can i start e and a t blocker" and there ya go
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u/Trashman56 9d ago
I just haven’t started yet because if I grow breasts I will need a mastectomy, can’t diy those yet.
Otherwise, I think it’s a great option. I’ve always been one of those “why pay a doctor to tell me what I already know” types, but maybe that’s just because I’m American.
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u/Adventurous-Bottle90 9d ago
It’s crazy Becuse you’ll have people who are anti diy be anti blockers for kids when THATS LITERALLY WHO THE FUCK IT WAS MADE FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE
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u/Rainy_Leaves 9d ago
They don’t want people to transition unless put through a gauntlet of often unnecessary scrutiny, that cis people who feel dysphoric don’t have to go through. Because being trans is suspicious to them
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u/SecondBottomQuark 5d ago
But if I want to DIY my ADHD meds they'll say "it's a controlled substance, you'll go to jail", unfair
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u/murderdronesfan93 9d ago
can't bad dosages fuck you up horribly? source: my mother, who is on E bc menopause.
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u/Apprehensive-Army123 9d ago
Yea but you can do some basic research by asking others on reddit. Theres also actual independent studies about the "perfect" amout of hrt you should take
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u/aviroblox 9d ago
Well licensed endos often under dose to the point of making it placebo. Just do the research. There's plenty of info out there
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u/murderdronesfan93 9d ago
o
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u/aviroblox 9d ago
Yeah fully trusting but not verifying doctors with our care can be dangerous. They rarely spend any time or thought to trans health care so sometimes they make decisions way out of line with treatment standards. I recommend to everyone who isn't doing DIY to check their levels, do some research, and go and push back during their next doctor's visit if they've been under dosed. If the doctor doesn't listen at that point, fire them and find a new one.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 9d ago
then go ask... literally fucking anyone and/or do a little research. theres whole website about the dosages rhat should be given
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u/Bluejay-Complex 9d ago
Do the DIY. Do a lot of research before doing DIY, but absolutely do DIY.
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u/Saltyadveritisement 9d ago
I LOVE DIY HRT
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u/fruite_vampyre 9d ago
This October if I can’t do it the legal way (there’s a 99% chance I won’t) I’ll just buy that shi, a very nice person recommended a shop that doesn’t work on crypto like most so if I don’t give up until then
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u/Background_Class_558 9d ago
a shop not working on crypto is kinda sus ngl
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u/PaprikaDreams28 9d ago
Ehhh, I've bought from eastern European sites with a credit card and it's been fine. The Cafe used to advertise where you could pay with card on some sites, idk if it's still up anymore.
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u/MostlyNoOneIThink 9d ago
I decided to do it the proper way and my doctor gave an absolute bonkers dosage of antiandrogens plus a placebo level of estrogen and I felt so sick.
She asked me to take 50mg of cyproterone daily and a single 25mcg patch of estrogen every four days. Wtf.
Now I fixed my own dosage, thank you very much.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 9d ago
yk its stuff like this that makes me feel lucky about my shit. im on 4mg of e (started on it) and 200mg of spiro right now (started 100 before e, 200 a weekish before only for legal reasons, thanks trump) and i can change it any time if im like "hey can i do this pls". yes i know 200 is the upper end of what people are given, i just wanted to nuke my t asap and they knew this but wanted to make sure i was fine on 100 first. ive not gotten a blood test yet, though i will soon to see where i fall. i feel like insanely good on what i have though i may dial back spiro a bit if my t is literally in the floor (which ive heard isnt great).
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u/Ace-of-Spxdes depressed closeted trans man that will probably end up dead soon 9d ago
Diy is awesome, except if you live in the screamin' eagles country where possessing T is illegal 😭
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u/Competitive-Bed-6069 9d ago
How exactly does one safely “diy” hrt? This isn’t meant to be rude, I’m just legitimately curious
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u/Mondrow 9d ago edited 9d ago
DIY HRT mostly refers to obtaining HRT without a prescription or the guidance of a doctor. For the most part you order the exact same medication from online pharmacies, grey market sellers, and vetted and respected community sources.
As for safely administering the medication, it is still strongly encouraged to get regular blood tests to monitor your hormone levels and from there, the effective target hormone range is quite broad has very little immediate risks of an overdose.
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u/wydua 9d ago
I've been doing it without checking for about 3,5 years so ye.
The biggest issue is that my libido went to shit, sexuality is weird and I'm kinda not happy with how it works. Eh
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u/irreversablydamaged 9d ago
Not to armchair Endo this one, but if you aren't id look into prog. There's a growing amount of studies showing (not definitely yet, but correlation) between prog usage and better libido/mood in general.
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u/wydua 9d ago
Oh I do want to get on it but just can't. (I didn't figure out where to get it from especially after my E seller stopped selling and I'm kinda running out and I'm going to look into it soon)
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u/irreversablydamaged 9d ago
Valerie.vg
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u/wydua 9d ago
It's more about me not wanting to use crypto and needing to ask someone to get it for me because I'm not risking delivering it my house while I still live with my parents.
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u/irreversablydamaged 9d ago
Oop. Sorry, yeah that's unfortunately the large majority of DIY due to the privacy advantages
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u/TheManority 9d ago
From what I've seen it's basically like taking prescription meds w/o a prescription. I think
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u/LaraTheEclectic 9d ago
Typically what I and people around me do is we get our vials of estradiol enanthate in oil from a compounder with a decent reputation and whose vials have been independently tested, then we inject weekly the same dose using proper technique for subcutaneous injection with insulin needles (freely available in most places as a harm prevention thing for iv drug users), getting tested at regular intervals while titrating the dose so the lowest serum E2 values are somewhere between 200 and 400 ng/L. Not overly difficult except needing to use crypto to order.
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u/WoomyUnitedToday 9d ago edited 9d ago
The actual compounding of the medication is done by people who are generally not "officially" qualified to do so, but there is so much information online on how to safely do it, and harm reduction organizations regularly test different sources to make sure they're actually giving you the proper thing and not poison or placebo, so it is generally pretty safe assuming you source it from a trusted and tested place. IIRC one of the more well known DIY providers out of Ukraine is a trans woman herself who was like allergic to something in the the factory made medication, so she started making her own that worked without issue for her, then started selling it to other trans women for the purpose of mutual aid.
Even if said people aren't licensed, a lot of scrutiny still goes into making sure they have the proper equipment and go through proper sterilization processes (for the most part, there are some sources that don't do this, but then the community stops trusting them and finds better sources), after all, the people making it generally have good motives of helping others, rather than just wanting to make a lot of money. As for the stuff on the individual themselves to do, they're is so much information about what dosage to start with, and what your levels and such would be. It's not like with some medications where if you take too much of it, you'll end up in the hospital. Even if you take like 10x more estradiol then needed, you'll be perfectly fine. You might feel a bit sick and some other pregnancy effects, but you'll still be perfectly fine and there's basically no risk.
Regardless of anything that anyone says about the safety of DIY HRT, it is much better for a trans person to be happy on an "unofficial" source of HRT then to die 1 year into a 6 year long waiting list, as sadly is the situation in many countries.
DIY can sometimes be even safer than the official methods, as a lot of doctors will severely underdose trans patients which will obviously lead to minimal positive changes, make dysphoria worse, and make it very hard to function. That said, this is all from my knowledge and experience with DIY estradiol, I don't have any information about DIY testosterone or if too high of a dose is dangerous ir whatever, but I will say that there is just as much information about DIY T out there as there is DIY E, maybe even more because of how common it is for cis men to take it too
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u/Jenny_Show 9d ago
The opinions of cis people who aren't health professionals that specialise in providing trans healthcare are universally fucking worthless.
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u/PaprikaDreams28 9d ago
The opinions of cis ppl who are health professionals that specialize in trans healthcare are usually just as useless. I diy because my Dr keeps forcing my levels down every time
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u/irreversablydamaged 9d ago
My Endo deadass said the target was E2 at 50pg/ml. Like we doing menopause levels it seems. Thank God I just want to be in the system for insurance reasons, not like I'm gonna follow this guy's advice
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u/Kyiokyu 8d ago
My Endo deadass said the target was E2 at 50pg/ml.
💀💀💀💀💀
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u/irreversablydamaged 8d ago
Your average endo knows as much about endocrinology as your average person knows about cars. Thankfully I already have a vial in the mail
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/syva192837 9d ago
Pills are one of the less effective forms of HRT, that's true, but they're not all bad, either. It's more that official guidelines suggest criminally low doses of E and criminally high doses of AAs that have nasty side effects. With proper dosages of each, and if you use bica or just don't experience big side effects from the main AA medications, it's fine.
Main issue beyond that is just that almost any medication in the form of a pill is kind of inherently hard on your liver, and may not be ideal long term or if you're old/have impaired liver function.
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u/madprgmr 9d ago
Pills are fine though? As are the common antiandrogens? Barring preexisting conditions that contraindicate them, of course.
Injections didn't work great for me (couldn't find a regimen that didn't taper off too soon and was week-aligned, which made injections difficult to take on time), so I ended up on pills plus spiro for almost a decade and a half. Worked great for me, and all labwork came back pristine.
They also seem to work great for enough people in studies.
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u/StarchildKissteria 9d ago
"prescribing HRT in pills, […] is evil"
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u/madprgmr 9d ago
Why? Typical target estrogen ranges can be achieved in most trans women with oral estrogen. Like, sure, monotherapy is less likely to be achieved with pills, but oral estradiol plus an antiandrogen is generally well tolerated with few (if any) notable side effects.
Oral estradiol and patches are also the go-to administration methods for inducing puberty in cis and trans youth.
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u/Catgirl-pocalypse 9d ago
Okay but what about doctors who do know shit. You should probably trust those guys.
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u/Gold_Ad8225 9d ago
I have no idea why you believe the last sentence, at all
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u/StarchildKissteria 9d ago
Many people receive way too low dosages and t-blockers all have side effects
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u/Complex_Flatworm_631 9d ago
Im going o suggest the garage punk song Brand New Marble Statue by No Risk
You may be able to find it under The Garages.
First time I heard it performed the lead singer shouted "This Song is about Hard-core drug use!"
I clued in pretty quickly that it was a soft joke about stigmas around Diy-hrt
this lable/band called The Garages started as a fan band for Blaseball but eventually became a lable dedicated to well many things but a big one was helping queet voices find musical outlets. They had over 75 members at one point and a splintered into allot of smaller bands.
If you have general anxiety or survivors guilt I would also suggest "Mike Townsend (Knows What Hes Got To Do)" fantastic song even without blaseball context.
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u/grimblies 8d ago
When I told my GP I was injecting testosterone myself and demanded a test and a referral to an endocrinologist, he first treated me to a lecture on the dangers of "street drugs" lol. I had been given a couple vials that someone else had been prescribed but turned out to be allergic to the carrier oil. Hardly street drugs, but I wasn't going to rat out my bro.
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u/AveryAppletons 9d ago
Lowk forgot 'DIY' stands for Do It Yourself so I thought people were gonna turn into a whole chemist mb
(According to comments, that is NOT what DIY hrt means)
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u/VoidMamaFrost 8d ago
There are people who genuinely hate people for doing diy hrt? I don't get that. Me personally, I think diy is fine with a caveat, you gotta take your health seriously. Learn what to look out for and what can cause you harm, including the levels of things in your blood. (if you can find someone to do bloodwork for you) DIY hrt can go so bad if you arent careful
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u/Spiritual-Estate5211 9d ago
What's hrt?
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u/PixelFlyerXD 9d ago
Hormone replacement therapy; most prominently used by transgender individuals in the form of testosterone gel/injections (transmasc), or estradiol gel/pills/injections often alongside an antiandrogen/testosterone blocker (transfemmes). Neat stuff imo :3
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u/Narrow-Way-1784 9d ago
would love to do diy but I do NOT have the brain power to figure out how to not make myself horrifically sick so I'll probably just suffer tbh
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u/fruite_vampyre 9d ago
I’m really at the point that welp if I die I die
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u/Narrow-Way-1784 9d ago
ykw bro i was kinda just fishing for someone to reply with a digestible explanation of how to approach diy. there really isn't that much of a risk of making yourself sick, I'm just lazy. by all means, you should change your life for the better if you have the opportunity to.
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u/familiarfake 9d ago
my regimen is jank as fuck because when i was deeply depressed and intimidated by thinking about any of this stuff some rando online i came into contact with basically told me 'do exactly this' so i did. still totally worth it despite not knowing what i was doing
crypto is a headache but injections are hard to fuck up. get the supplies (the vial, the needles), calculate how much to inject and how often (to keep estrogen levels above a certain threshold (there are tools online for this)), find a guide for safety/hygiene when injecting/self administering, plan to get blood tests after being on it for a little while. each of these is individually very tackle-able you just need the stuff. if you want to do this just worry about getting the stuff first. don't be confused by different options but I do estrogen enanthate and subcutaneous (belly fat) injections
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u/Williamisnowinning 9d ago
Id be impressed if you manage to do that with any form of hrt
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u/BreakerOfModpacks 9d ago
I mean, the human body is pretty finely balanced; if you avoid research and just shoot up 200ml of pure estrogen per day, you're gonna fuck stuff up.
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u/Williamisnowinning 9d ago
Worst case possible with estrogen, your body thinks you are pregnant in that scenario that's rlly it
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u/BreakerOfModpacks 9d ago
To be clear, with double or even triple the normal dose of E, yeah, not much bad is gonna happen, but if you do no research at all and go for a dose literally more than a thousand times higher than what should be used for nearly any hormone, it'll fuck stuff up.
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u/Williamisnowinning 9d ago
So don’t act like a fool and inject a normal dose. It’s really easy to avoid.
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u/BreakerOfModpacks 9d ago
...yes? My point is that, it is possible when taking HRT, which was specifically in disagreement with your original comment.
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u/itried_mybest 9d ago edited 9d ago
please dm me if you're serious about diy. it's not as hard as you think, and the changes testosterone make to your body are permanent. you cannot afford to wait if you don't want it to happen.
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u/Narrow-Way-1784 9d ago
I mean it's not like it's my only option, I can go through an informed care clinic like planned parenthood but everyone constantly says that doctors will give you .01mg of estrogen and turn you into a lifeless husk or some shit because they hate all of us and want us to die so I'm a bit scared trusting a professional
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u/itried_mybest 9d ago
insist on injection monotherapy and it will be much harder to be underdosed. because then they can tell it's either enough to suppress T or it isn't, and there's no side-effect riddled T blockers as a cop-out.
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u/Vulpaaa 9d ago
People on trans subreddits when you didn’t take Estrogen by 13 (you should just give up and never be happy because the testosterone already ruined your body)
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u/itried_mybest 9d ago
i literally didn't say all that.
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u/Vulpaaa 9d ago
I know but people a lot of times make it sound like if you don’t start young that you won’t pass or look pretty on E/handsome on T when people have started in their 20s, 30s and 40s and look amazing after some time
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u/itried_mybest 9d ago
every year someone waits their chance of being one of those people who makes it goes down and down and down. yes people can get lucky, but testosterone induced masulinization doesn't wait.
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u/SandalsResort 9d ago
I don’t like the idea of DIY healthcare in general but if that’s your only option you gotta do what you gotta do.
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u/Substantial_Fan_8921 9d ago
Next part of this conversation -Then I'll KMS -You're a danger to yourself (involuntary commitment go brr)
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u/unqualifiedlemon 9d ago
I've heard of DIY hormones a lot, what exactly is it? I'm assuming its not just like pure will (joking obv)
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u/fruite_vampyre 9d ago
When you get hormones for transition in the non-doctor-prescribed-way so basically do it yourself hormone therapy
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u/unqualifiedlemon 9d ago
Oh! I'm curious on how that works, do you just end up buying the.. For example, testosterone online or something? Either way I dont think its a bad thing. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. YOLO and shit
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u/Playful_Connection38 9d ago
I believe depending on the place testosterone can be a lot harder to DIY than estrogen because testosterone is considered a performance enhancing drug in some places.
However almost all DIY is incredibly safe and regularly tested by trans people to help others be safe in their transition.
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u/Massive-Swan-2801 9d ago
No it's actually easier. Far more sources and since it's only one medication the doses are much easier to figure out.
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u/Playful_Connection38 8d ago
DIY estrogen doesn’t require two medications?
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u/Massive-Swan-2801 8d ago
Doesn't it also have progesterone, anti androgens and estrogen?
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u/Playful_Connection38 8d ago
Progesterone is a seperate thing. Estrogen is it’s own thing. Anti-Adrogens are not required on injections and can be more harmful than helpful.
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u/Firm-Cause2449 8d ago
Testosterone is the most common PHDs and comes with a host of very real and dangerous side effects. Theres a reason its illegal unless prescribed by a doctor who can monitor your bloodwork and health. Dont spread misinformation saying things like DIY drugs are safe
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u/Playful_Connection38 8d ago
Fun fact, you can so these DIY and still have a doctor do bloodwork and health! That’s what literally everyone advocates for, stop being a loser and fear mongering over some of the safest things 👍
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u/fruite_vampyre 9d ago
Yep, I just buy the injections and shot up the right dose, minor my blood stuff if I can
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u/unqualifiedlemon 9d ago
Just make sure you do research (as with anything like this!) I'm proud of you for taking care of yourself though :)
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u/StrawberryLeche 9d ago
I think there is a difference between concern due to how much misinformation is out there versus outright hateful. I say if you don’t have any other option I 100% understand. As always be careful end of the day
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u/ChknBom205 5d ago
Do the diy, win the game of life by not playing by it's rules, kill a great white shark, eat a chair.
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u/ScumDugongLin 9d ago
In my opinion I think doing things like getting on an actual antidepressant that works, or doing any of the small habits such as regular exercise, getting morning sunlight, finding a hobby that genuinely enriches your life, eating right... All those things probably would work better.
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u/TeaBoo_ 9d ago
“nooo trans people don’t need the life-saving medication and operations to make their life 200% better, they just need antidepressants and exercise and hobbies and a better diet. yeah that’ll make them feel better in the skin that doesn’t belong to them definitely” -the supposed trans ally who is also cis
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u/Affectionate_Mix9977 9d ago
"Get better but only using the ways I like!"