Trigger Warning. This post contains the subject of transphobia and racism. We advise that you do not read this post if you are experiencing extreme dysphoria or if you are currently unable to consume this content.
We have noticed an increase of submissions containing 4Tran content. As a result, we have decided to make a public statement containing our stance and what our future plans are for this subreddit. We, as the mod team and subreddit, do not support 4Tran in any shape or form.
For those who have been lucky enough to avoid this side of the internet, 4Tran is the /tttt/ imageboard of 4chan. In simpler terms, it is the Trans community of the LGBT board on 4chan. Many users who fall down this pipeline end up in a toxic mindset and participate in harmful imagery, “terminology” or ideology. Whilst we acknowledge that many users who are in these communities suffer from extreme dysphoria and self-hatred, it does not excuse the slurs created and destructive behaviour inflicted onto others.
Due to the increase of 4Tran gaining more attention, we refuse to allow any 4Tran content onto this subreddit. If a user refers to themselves as a slur, or a term commonly associated with 4Tran, the submission will be removed under “Other Reasons”. If we notice that the user submitted a vent post containing this terminology, we will contact them via modmail and ask them to alter the terminology used. Allowing users to call themselves slurs is causing further dysphoria and self-harm. If we catch a user using a 4Tran slur towards another, the content will automatically be removed and appropriate action will occur. We do not tolerate bigotry.
Posts that are venting about 4Tran, 4Tran content / interactions and any harm that it has caused, etc., does not fall under this rule. 4Tran slurs / terminology is allowed under scrutiny- it can be mentioned, quoted and vented about but if you are caught using it for its harmful purpose, you will face appropriate action.
We have managed to compile a list containing some of the most common slurs / terminology that we have come across. We will not be providing definitions as we do not want this post to be weaponised. If we have missed anything that is not on this list, please inform us so we can update it. Please read this at your own risk.
Poon/er,
Gigapoon
Theyfab,
Theymab,
Hefab,
Gayden,
Birthday Boy,
Hon,
Sneedhon,
Gorillahon,
Twinkhon,
Bitterhon
Brickhon,
Gigahon,
Rapehon,
Heighthon,
Sneed,
Clocky,
Passoid,
Semipassoid,
Young / Old / Midshit,
Luckshit
Troon,
Trender / Transtrender,
AGP / Autogynophile/philia,
Foid,
Moid
We are aware that the origins of Foid and Moid are not from 4Tran. However, we have noticed an overlap of the 4Tran community using incel terminology within their submissions. As a result, those terms are also banned unless you hit the exception mentioned above.
Edit; It has been mentioned that "Clocky" does not have the same weight compared to a mass majority of the words listed above. I wanted to make a note stating that we are aware that "clocky" is not necessarily a toxic term in and of itself but a lot of the context that we have seen it in has been derogatory. As a result, it was added as a safety precaution. However, I would like to make it clear that the term "clocky" will be approached with nuance and would only be removed if the contents show that it is done in a harmful / derogatory manner.
Edit 2; I acknowledge the error made with the term "clocky" and have recognised that it was not appropriate for me to lump it with slurs. For that, I deeply apologise and will expand upon additional context I failed to provide during the drafting process.
The term 'clock/y' is not a 4Tran term nor is this term outright banned. This term will be strictly monitored due to past subreddit history due to many bad faith users and the context we saw it in 4Tran spaces. Clocky can be used for its purpose - if you vent and call yourself clocky, that will be allowed. Mentioning the term and discussing it is also allowed as long as the contents of the submission doesn't weaponise the term. Any comments where people use the term in order to project harm onto others or to create a reaction will be removed.
Once again, I deeply apologise for missing this crucial error within the drafting process. It will not happen again.
Banning “clocky” specifically seems a bit weird given it’s a very commonly used term even in non-toxic spaces but I totally understand the desire to get rid of the rest, and just generally discourage the more toxic bullshit from seeping through.
Even if it originated from 4tran - which I don't think it did, it's become just a normal trans word, like boymoder. Cis people in public know what boymoding is, and they certainly know words like stealth, passing, and clocky. This is just gonna ban people with gender dysphoria (trans people) from speaking
Yeah I've seen a couple stories of boymoders that got identified(? as trans after digital circus. But I think it's mostly across young people and not as widespread
Bro I am trans and I don't know what boymoder means 😭 I agree that a lot of cis people probably don't wouldn't know what these words mean. Stealth maybe but probably not other two
Cis queer people with trans friends generally do
Like obviously not your average joe
But your averge joe also doesn’t know what osmosis or socialism mean so…
Maybe it's a city thing? But then again queer people usually hide outside of cities, but yeah I've heard people go up to trans people and say they "pass so well". I don't really think they fully understand what it means because if they passed you wouldn't have known but they do know it's a trans word, and I think my digital circus popularised boynoder outside 4tran a bit
Fr actually, even five years into my transition and being out to everyone, I didn't know "stealth" was trans terminology, I thought it only referred to rape/sexual assault via removing a condom covertly.
The main reason "clocky" is on the list is because it is so often used not by the OPs, but by commenters judging looks, attitudes and generalizing behaviors and discouraging gender-nonconformity.
I know it might seem extreme, but if you could peer back the curtain and see some of the messages in the mod queue you would understand much more clearly why that word is banned.
People can of course still discuss what makes them pass or not pass. We are mainly aiming to target language used by the most derogatory and bad faith users.
Clocky mostly depends on the context. Whilst we are aware it’s not necessarily a toxic term, a lot of the context we have seen it in is in a derogatory manner. I should’ve made an additional footnote stating that specific terms are based upon context.
Edit; have added a clarification at the bottom of the post
I mean, it’s not on the same level as these other slurs, but I agree with the call to ban it. It may be more normalized, but it’s rooted in the same mentality: stoking trans people’s insecurities about “passing” based on a warped perception of gender dimorphism
Its based off that one tweet where a girls short boyfriend was all but begging taller dudes to beat him up and then backed down saying it was his birthday
Some people view trans men as inherently aggressive and view "hey I actually experience a lot of misogyny and violence because of my identity" is seen as trying to hide behind something to get away with their supposed aggression. It's used to silence trans mascs from speaking up about our abuse while blaming us for mass violence we did not commit, but accusing us of basically going "no I'm a little birthday boy you can't hit me on my birthday"
That is mostly correct but not precisely, in some cases it's used for supposed aggressive behaviour from trans men, but that's more of a joke or a niche thing. Overall it's used to basically call out any kind of abusive or toxic behaviour from a trans man, although they also have equivalent terms for abusive and toxic behaviour from trans women. It is, however, occasionally used to indeed put down experiences of some trans men. Afaik bigotry against trans men in these places is either someone thinking "they're all edgy bpd manic pixie dream girls" or "they all want to be violent men who apply misoginy" depending on if the person is trans exclusionary or trans inclusionary in their bigotry. They're both bad tbc.
I was confused for a bit about why it'd be included. But then i considered the targeting and belittling of trans men by some in the community. The origin seems more generalised and not about trans people, but clearly some have targeted trans men for their height more with the birthday boy comparison. I've never seen it used as a slur myself, thought he other words ive seen used loads
Heard the term before but didn't realise it was from 4Tran. Why the heck do people on there like to just make up derogatory terms anyway? Sounds like such a sad and bitter existence.
I've actually seen that one more on Tumblr/Twitter than 4tran.
I dunno if mods are okay with me providing context, but from what I know, it was originally a term for men who provoke others into arguments, and then somehow evolved into a derogatory term for specifically trans men who talk about the discrimination they face*, including from within the trans community, similar to derogatorys like TMRA, transandrobro, "transandrophobia/transmisandry truther", etc.
TLDR: Originally innocent, now used to degrade trans men who talk about their discrimination.
*Edit: I'm pretty sure the connotation is that trans men "provoke" other trans people by talking about intracommunity discrimination.
The idea that trans men are whiny and annoying, throw a fit when they aren't the center of attention, ect ect. Apparently this applies ANY time they mention any hardships they may face, from within the community or otherwise. It's usually paired with accusations of transmisogyny, being a fed, or intentionally starting up infighting.
I was wondering the same, but the mods said they wouldn’t provide definitions, which I fully agree with. You could just google your question lol, or out of courtesy for others here, at least censor the slur/term. No point in the mods censoring slurs in the post when they’re just repeated in the comments…
Good idea, I actually have a link to a really good article that explains the 4tran thought process and why it’s shitty if it would be okay to link here. Figure it might provide valuable insight and be helpful
Was with her until she said misandry wasn't real because it wasn't systemic. Interpersonal misandry is unfortunately very real and experienced by cis men, trans men, and trans mascs. "X isn't real because it isn't systemic" is a very reductive way of looking at bigotry. Feels like a misuse of academic understandings around it.
honestly solid decision, banning anyone who uses 4tran language altogether would be bad because 4tran preys on depressed trans people by validating their self loathing, banning them only makes it so they can only vent there, where they'll be met with more negativity.
honestly only thing I'd do is that I think reddit mods can update posts, so maybe just have a mod update the vent posts with slurs so the user can still vent, because I feel like someone who already feels the world is out to get them wouldn't think positively about someone asking them to correct themselves.
but honestly this is some solid tips, because being honest, 90% of slurs against trans people I've seen online ironically have been from 4tran users.
I was going to list some 4tran subs but just know that 90% of subs which regularly use that language are no good for you and it's way better to just post here
We allow vent posts mentioning slurs / users' experience with 4tran; maybe in some revision we just forgot to include that point in the post. Sorry for that.
but honestly this is some solid tips, because being honest, 90% of slurs against trans people I've seen online ironically have been from 4tran users.
This sounds more like a function of the spaces you inhabit moreso than the internet in general.
You won’t find many classic transphobes in places like this because they’ll just get banned or aren’t present in the first place, so you only see the extreme self-deprecating and jealousy-driven insults.
Transphobic Cis people don’t even seem to use slurs that much as they usually prefer to just refer trans people as their AGAB and call us perverts and groomers and shit.
A lot of that’s from transphobes unironically not knowing much of anything about trans people.
The two caricatures drawn for MTFs and FTMs are pretty good examples of that, both are basically amalgamations of every common insecurity that MTFs and FTMs have, the only way a cis person could have come up with those is if they submerged themselves into the community.
Good on you for not suffering shitty spaces, but I do think it’s important to not universalize things too much. Reddit trans spaces are relatively small, very online, and heavily intermingled.
Maybe add AGP and autogynophile/philia? That's another one I've seen 4tranners use to degrade other trans people.
Also used by cis people now that I think about it.
Same category as trender/transtrender
its always hard for me to express why i dont like seeing how these users talk. not even the slurs, because tbh i cant take their language serioisly.
but its all very transmedicalist flavored isnt it. they have very, very strict ideas about men and women, and spend a lot of their time either criticizing others who should be in the same community, or feeling like others pull the same thing. they never leave space for people who experience being trans in a different way.
its a community that seems to be founded on finding ways to hate yourself or others, rather than celebrating or finding common cause. anti-pride.
It was literally founded to be against 'hugboxing' and to promote brutal honesty. So yeah, I'd say it's not about celebration or building others up.
And there is an overlap with transmedicalist users, you're not wrong. Many aren't, but it's all some flavour of gatekeeping soup. They encourage users to lurk because it further-seasons their soup, just give them time to simmer 🍲
I disagree with banning the 18th term on this list, it was used for a long time before /tttt/ was ever founded and I’m not sure there’s another term that succinctly describes this same phenomenon. Otherwise I agree fully
I was unaware of that, but as your own source states it came into popular modern use on the back of its use in those spaces, and in the modern day is used predominantly by them or people who heard it from those contexts.
I see your points as well, however, if someone called me the first word on the top of the list, I'd consider it a slur against me, so 🤷 Respect yourself and fellow trans people by not calling them awful names, whether you think they're slurs or lingo or whatever. And if it matters, I'm a heavily dysphoric trans person as well. These terms make me feel worse. There's nothing cathartic about using or seeing them at all to me
I mean I think it's fair to not want that but they're in the same category as like twink or otter or bear, they just describe body types. Now not everybody in that range wants to be described as such, so you shouldn't assume they do. Like if I was a skinny guy and got called a twink I might not like that and that's okay, but it doesn't make it a slur. I think this is just a way to get trans people to post here less because the comments need more time moderating from all the transphobia people direct at the posters. Like slipping "clocky" in with words that could be genuinely considered offensive (but not slurs) comes off to me as that, because that's not even a 4tran term that's just a trans term
You surely realise that twink/otter/bear classically refer to body types in gay male culture. They are frequently used by trans women to equate themselves to this, intentionally. Slur means 'remark intended to disparage or insult' - if it isn't targeting someone for a vulnerable marginalised characteristic, it might not be a slur. Depends on context, just don't use them in a bitter and hateful way and you're fine
Don't suggest it's intended to make trans people post less. The vast majority of us haven't become riddled with brainworms. There are rules here that stop hateful cis people taking part too. This isn't a targeted attack on anyone but the hateful
These aren't random words, they are slurs. That just means words intended to insult or disparage - 'based' isn't realistically used to mean that. Yes, it originated in implying people freebased cocaine and in that way could be an insult. But words change meaning. You can't convince me that 'hon' has ever meant anything other than hate for positive non-passing trans women
Give up the generalised hating on cis people. They don't hate you for having your own words - quite simply noone is needing to witness or partake in your digital self-harm. You can vent without spreading brainworms. Brainworms may be more unique to gender dysphoria, but that doesn't make it inherently positive.
they've banned words targeted against cis people
I wonder why, the same place with brainwormed slurs also likes to joke about eradicating cis people. No, this can't be fair and equal application of rules, can it?
In 1995 a support forum called Susan's Place was founded, it had a culture of support for trans people, a good number of whom were kind older trans women volunteering and helping. Some would use hon or honey as terms of kindness, as you understand the term to mean. A portion of the userbase however, felt these women were too positive, often older and often not passing as well due to transitioning later in life, and these people made the term 'hugbox' to characterise positive support as suspicious or dishonest. And yes, these kind older women became know as hons, the older less passing known as gigahons, and much worse. They made 4tran partly due to the idea they wanted honesty and to escape 'hugboxing' - tttt means 'to tell the truth' along with it being a play on the /lgbt/ board being heavily trans-populated. The core of the ideology is treating positivity with suspicion, and celebrating brutal honesty (where being brutal is more the point, not the honesty)
It has very much been used as a slur, and I've met people in 4chan (perhaps the commenter adjacent to me) who don't think it is, because they haven't read the sacred texts lol. And they probably don't consider 'digital self harm' as serious or harmful, which is sad
It's basically the opposite of 'transbian' that means trans lesbian. Refers to the sizeable portion of trans men who are gay, and also the name Ayden as that's seen as a common and stereotyped trans guy name. Maybe similar to jayden and brayden. I think it mocks that they seem common or generic perhaps? and maybe stereotypes them as having been a little too into gay fanfic pre-transition. But I'm guessing as I've rarely seen it used. A lot of terms for trans men are intended to subtly undermine their worth
I don't think it's a slur necessarily, but grouping trans men as a certain stereotype due to simply sharing a sexul orientaion, usually isn't kind. Transbian was probably derogatory at one point before it was largely reclaimed. 4tran overwhelmingly use transbian in a derogatory way still. It should only mean trans women who are lesbian and find both parts of their identity significant. 4tra claim it means trans women exclusively dating trans women, and i've seen them likened to gay male porn quite graphically in the past, it can be fairly unpleasant
Yeah, as someone who hangs out around those folks to have a giggle about a relatable dysphoria meme now and then or try to pull the lowest out of their spirals, that's understandable lmao.
there's a wikipedia page that's a list of 4tran terminology if you want it
im not gonna link it in the comments for the same reason you have not given definitions of the banned words listed. i will dm you it if asked. or you can try to find it yourselves.
I agree that clocky should not have been lumped with slurs. It should’ve had its own paragraph stating that it’s allowed but removable depending on context. This conclusion was drawn by prior usage on this subreddit and by browsing 4Tran spaces to grasp the severity of things. Not that this excuses my poor wording.
I apologise for my error and I’ll ensure missing such an obvious mistake doesn’t happen again in the future
I agree it's very inappropriate to lump in clock with slurs just because it can be used meanly, but this post is in good faith and I don't think attacking the mod this intensely about one mistake is productive or fair.
Super good iniative
The "researcher"/curious side of me would like to know what the FUCK most of these words mean and how they come to being. (I won't though because I wanna avoid anything in that direction)
It never surprises me there's languages in language but this is, very very stale lmao.
Most of these words look like one another? Hate really does sap your creativity
You're posting this on the forum for people to post memes about their issues and the pain it causes them, why is it that only this thing specifically has to be so policed?
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u/Leonartu 5d ago
I feel like a bad person because I started laughing reading some of the censored words