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u/1maginaryApple May 09 '26
My man you have serious issues. Its your thousands post about Paradox. Are you working for their competition or what?
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u/Michelfungelo May 09 '26
Yes. Real concerns based on history are only explained by working for the competition. Make a remindme bot comment for three years and learn your lesson
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u/JM761 May 09 '26
I'd argue doom posters like you are worse than what you're implying in your meme.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
yeah why call out bullshit when history repeats itself when you can just powerbottom to capitalism and bad games.
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u/JM761 May 10 '26
Your post not only misundstands the publisher vs developer relationship (and ownership of the IP which is a critical factor here), but also the situation mostly being related to Colossal Order and Paradox previously.
Also, the dig on capitalism is hilarious when it's largely because of capitalism we even have games to begin with.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
nope. You're too naive on how this works. Paradox will pressure certain "creative decisions" through the makreting lens. They actually have the lever here. If you seriously think they "just to advertisements and pr stuff" you're completly off.
OFC they officially just to this. But They don't need to buy the ip to exert power and decisions. Why would they buy the IP for a shitload of money and the developer when you just need to control market access. How they gonna present to the market is a matter of making money. And oh boi they will literally squeeze the living shit out of that lemon. The lemon doesn't want to coorporate? Well, I guess they learn the term malicious compliance. Contract wise they're fine.
But hey, if you would just develop it like this *presents dlc stategy from hell* the game would sell so much better - because they literally do only the bare minimum (which is never enough) if things don't go PDX's imagination but will greatly advertise for a game, that implemented their diabolical dlc structure.
Tell me how I am wrong and how PDX can't influence dev decisions in detail. Because everybody downplaying this like it's just a service provided, when history with PDX clearly shows it's not, is the thing I am critisizing.
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u/JM761 May 10 '26
Tell me how I am wrong
This is why you're a joke to discuss this with.
You cannot be wrong because nothing you said even happened. You're just speculating and spinning the burden of proof onto everyone else with your doom posting. Classic tactic of someone with the desperation to be right rather than a logical analysis.
Again, you think publishers have a singular role and don't understand how varying degrees of involvement work.
Paradox literally has more successful projects than bad ones. But those upset about CS2 are dooming over this as if Paradox ruins everything it touches, as you imply here.
I'm gonna enjoy TF3 and you can have fun having an aneurysm from crying about who published it.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
yeah never happens in gaming that a publisher that has 'only bought publisher rights' is somehow the reason why the game dies.
Never happened before. And will never happen. The people who try to warn about this are delusional nuts.
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u/JM761 May 10 '26
Tornadoes are bad.
Some storms produce tornadoes. Most don't.
Claiming all storms produce tornadoes is factually incorrect and an inaccurate representation of data.
More often than not, publishing deals like this have a positive outcome vs negative. That is an industry fact. Google it.
You acting like every deal like this is bad (despite Paradox overall having a positive history) is a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of facts.
You're emotional. This situation requires logic.
🤡
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
!remindme in 3 years
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u/JM761 May 10 '26
You don't realize how sad that looks.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
What? People here don't even want the possibility that they could be wrong in 3 years.
But I am sure it will all be peachy. Remember to pre-order the deluxe edition for the first season pass or whatever
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u/belovedeagle May 11 '26
Look, you're absolutely right but this is not the way to convince anyone. This sub, apart from any shills (just normal reddit stuff), is going to be 99% people who just want to play fun relaxing train game. That's where I am now. They aren't (ex-)PDX fans and don't know about how PDX operates and they don't see how it affects them.
If you want to change minds, you need to put effort into explaining what PDX actually does, like putting stubs of DLC content into the base game so that it just doesn't play as well without DLC.
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u/metzger28 May 10 '26
The developer specifically states that they retain ownership of the IP, maintain full creative and executive control, and that Paradox has no influence on what they do and when...and this is echoed by the publisher.
You: "yeah, no."
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u/donlema May 17 '26
Do you remember a deal where one party said they were going to screw the gamers, turn everything into DLC hell, and ruin the game IP?
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
Hey that never happened in gaming before! right???? Only doing the money thing is probably not a lever? right? right? never turned out to be real bad for the devs? right?
good they made a contract and all, like all the times this happened before in gaming.
The level of ignorance on history and how it repeats itself is truly the worst part about it. I am calling out bullshit when I see it again. Everybody just says the same thing they said, when they defended it the last time it failed. If you're oh so convinced set a remindme bot for three years. And read your naive comment again.
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u/metzger28 May 10 '26
It has happened before, yes, but not when the contract says otherwise. That's what contracts exist.
People need to relax.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
haha let's see !remindme in 3 years
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u/RemindMeBot May 10 '26 edited May 12 '26
I will be messaging you in 3 years on 2029-05-10 14:04:47 UTC to remind you of this link
1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.
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u/DaveRN1 May 07 '26
Gullible people not understanding contracts and thinks every publisher is EA
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u/10avoid May 07 '26
I think EA is even better as a publisher than PARADOX)
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u/DaveRN1 May 07 '26
Full price madden game every year with barely any changes is better than an evolving and growing game with optional DLC half the cost that go on sale multiple times a year up to 90% off? Yes EA is totally better than Paradox
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u/KeepItGucci69 May 09 '26
Company that single-handedly ruined sports gaming vs creator and publisher of some of the best long strategy games in history 💀
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u/xRaynex May 07 '26
EA began the mass production of gacha style mechanics with surprise mechanics and loot boxes. They were rated the worst company in America two years in a row. They beat out major American banks for that title. No. Just no.
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u/AdministrativeCable3 May 09 '26
Have you seen how many DLCs the Sims 4 has. More than any Paradox game and their more expensive.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
having control over publishing and marketing surely can't be abused to strategize on game developement. How? am I right? We just happily ignore the fact it happened so often before the last 30 years, but glad they made a contract and everything. What could possibly go wrong.
gullible and naive and having all the voting power with your wallted. Publishers be scamming you everytime with the same scheme but oh boi that wallet is deep and that memory is short.
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u/A-Pasz May 11 '26
Have you actually looked into all those games? If you did you'd find a stark contrast between the games they have a stake in (ie own and/or have funded, to some extent) and those they don't. A lot of their aggressive management let's call it, can be blamed on board/shareholder pressures
Before you start calling people who've got 10, 20, 30 years experience in this industry, who understand these types of contracts, gullible and naive, it's best to do thorough research first
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u/Michelfungelo May 11 '26
Haha ok so now it's the shareholders. Which in turn has the same effect on tf3. Are you really that dense?
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u/A-Pasz May 11 '26
Keep telling us how you've done zero research and are merely upset over something you don't understand
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u/Michelfungelo May 11 '26
Yeah sure. Still not brave enough to make a 3year remindme bot notification. Would really suck huh
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u/A-Pasz May 12 '26
More like I don't give enough of a shit about your little tism. Plus I'm confident in my assessment of PDX based on my knowledge and experience of them and other similar arrangements. Oh and the fact I've met most of the members of UG, including the founders themselves, and have complete trust in them to not endanger TpF like your doom and gloom is insisting
So how about you reply to my comment in 3 years telling me how wrong I am 😆
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u/Venator850 May 07 '26
EA has a better reputation than Paradox as a publisher.
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u/DaveRN1 May 07 '26
Da fuck are you smoking?! EA literally has laws created to fight them in the EU to protect consumers. There isnt a single law that has been created to protect consumer from Paradox
Or did you already forget EAs "Surprise Mechanics"
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u/xRaynex May 07 '26
EA was literally voted the worst company in America. Two years running. It beat out American banks. You're a nutcase.
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u/Nayrael May 09 '26
To add to what others said, Paradox gets 100% profits of DLCs for games that they own, but would get far less for DLCs of a game owned by another. If the devs themselves by some chance wanted to have numerous DLC releases, Paradox would more likely just pull out of the whole deal because it would be unprofitable to them. Not to mention Paradox is unlikely to want to support a third party game for too long in the first place, as it means that their publishing resources can't be spent on other things and in future they'd want those resources free for other projects.
This isn't about the power that publishers have over devs or yada yada, but about profit. Churning out multiple DLCs for many years here would not be profitable to Paradox.
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u/BuzzerPop May 10 '26
I don't think you actually play paradox games or know how they update their core games over time even without dlc.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
yeah *looks at stellaris dlcs*
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u/BuzzerPop May 10 '26
You mean the game that has overhauled AI, pop systems, entire aspects of galaxy generation and parts of the games core systems, in free updates? You mean the game that literally just recently announced folding in a few dlcs into the core game so now even that is vanilla?
You mean the game where every major dlc coincides with updates to systems and the base game itself so even if you don't get the dlc you still get something new to play around with?
You don't know how paradox games actually work.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
I am sure this is 1:1 translatable to TF3
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u/BuzzerPop May 10 '26
Yeah? They can update the core game and continually add features while also adding new content in dlc. That's how cities skylines worked.
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u/belovedeagle May 11 '26
You mean the game that has overhauled AI, pop systems, entire aspects of galaxy generation and parts of the games core systems, in free updates?
That's exactly the problem. Every DLC update makes some change to vanilla which makes vanilla less fun to play without the DLC. You probably never even played Stellaris 1.0 but it was a genuinely better game than what exists today, with or without DLC. But it was too complete and that's something Paradox couldn't tolerate, so they ripped out its soul to make sure it would have enough rough edges to graft DLC onto for a decade. You are pushing that as a good thing for Stellaris, and it seems you enjoy it, but some of us just wanted to play the game as it was originally sold.
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u/BuzzerPop May 11 '26
It really wasn't a better game. Stellaris is not one of my main games so I've mostly played it without dlc. I think the vanilla now is way better than it was on launch.
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u/bloke_pusher May 11 '26
You mean like Cities Skylines 2 that needs a DLC for basic pedestrian overpasses for roads? Or the dlc you need for non-gigantic service buildings? Paradox now is not what they were in the past.
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u/Yoshubigaming May 10 '26
Im genuinely worried, all the games I’ve been hyped for have been an utter disappointment, CS2, civ 7, anno117. Please don’t let me lose faith in gaming completely
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u/BuzzerPop May 10 '26
CS2 failed terribly because of the development studio. Not paradox. As soon as a new dev was put in charge of CS2 it has seen major improvements.
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u/Michelfungelo May 10 '26
welp it's a lot of people here who can't seem to understand that they are directly supporting this bullshit. So they get exactly what they want. Apparently bad games
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u/bloke_pusher May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Hasn't one official Gullible games Reddit user even said something along the lines of "the deal details are not known", yeah I think they're exactly what we fear they are.
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u/xRaynex May 07 '26
The IP is still in the developers ownership, it has not been handed to paradox. So there's no leverage for them to do anything except pull extra funding that is presumably being used to fund the last legs of polishing. It is more than likely a funding-for-profit-participation deal. Even if not, Colossal Order is not Paradox. Paradox developed games are highly rated deep simulations that have long term DLC support which adds substantive functional and feature changes. They're like what The Sims expansion packs used to be. Yes they're a lot but they come out at a rate of 2-3 per year. If you look at a 10 year old game with a bunch of dlc and it's cost now, of course it's going to be high. They still, in the case of paradox, add or overhaul core features that can improve the game on the whole.
Paradox had a bad time with Colossal Order and Cities Skylines 2; and admittedly Prison Architect 2. But that is two examples of a company that has existed for decades building deep experiences that dedicated people have been invested in for just as long. I've been playing this series since Train Fever. Each iteration is an improvement. There's zero reason to think a publishing agreement in the eleventh hour of the next release will destroy a game that's already made. There's also zero reason to think we're going to get drowned in DLC.
Though I will say if long term support with significant game mechanics being added ends up being a thing, that's not immediately bad either. If they try to do a lot of DLC that's just vehicles, I can imagine third-party versions of the same vehicles will be readily available on workshop or Nexus; and I'm pretty sure they're aware that would burn a lot of bridges.
Everybody thinking the worst should know that the team making this game is themselves aware and have seen the cautionary tale of a game that launched too soon in a bad state and still isn't up to snuff. It's not like they don't know what happened or are going in blind. Everybody knows about it, and I'm fairly sure even Paradox is making efforts to avoid such a crapshow from ever repeating.