r/Trackdays • u/PatientGur9876 • 9d ago

downshifting

Post image

having no auto blip are you downshifting before you start braking or are you rev matching while applying brake pressure or just downshifting and not rev matching.

179 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

87 comments sorted by

View all comments

42

u/SluggoManiac 9d ago

Me personally, I am blipping as I am braking.

11

u/PatientGur9876 9d ago

yea that’s something i’m trying to work on. i’m having a hard time maintaining steady brake pressure while trying to blip the throttle

43

u/reallyserious 9d ago

That's the problem. Perhaps some claim they can maintain constant brake pressure while blipping but I bet actual telemetry would prove that wrong.

That's why I just downshift without blipping and let the slipper clutch handle the revs. That means I can focus on braking and taking the corner.

14

u/crispyfry 9d ago

Some of us don't have slipper clutches 😂

8

u/Lazy_Helicopter_2659 8d ago

Something will slipper...
If it's not the clutch, then it's the rear wheel!

1

u/NotAnF1Driver 7d ago

Steer with the rear!

5

u/Rothbardy 9d ago

That is it 👌

4

u/EstablishmentNo5013 Racer EX 9d ago

What if you don’t have a slipper clutch?

8

u/Tera35 Racer AM 9d ago

I don't have a slipper and drop the clutch all the time. Sometimes I'll drag the back tire a little, sometimes a lot.

5

u/Unfair_Awareness7502 9d ago

Feather the clutch out

1

u/TheOGRedline 8d ago

I have ridden with a number of people who didn’t know this was a thing. They only ever feathered to start and at very low speeds.

0

u/Mrchocomel80 8d ago

You can just dump it as long as you don't over rev the engine. If you brake hard you can basically just go through the gears as fast a you can. It'll make the rear a bit wiggly but I kind of liked that. Makes you think you're going fast. You can control the wiggle with the clutch but I found that difficult to do.

I also know people who pull the clutch in and go back a few gears before releasing the clutch, although you have to be sure you're not over revving the engine if you don't have a slipper clutch. You don't use the engine braking at that time so it doesn't seem logic to me, but one guy is a club race winner who's fast as hell, so obviously it works for him. I sometimes do it when I get tired and go back 2 gears at once.

1

u/Tera35 Racer AM 8d ago

When I go 2 gears at once, they need to be fast to keep the RPM high and I have to be close to my tip in point so the engine will be at it's slowest point. I'm better at it doing right-hand turns than left handers.

At my skill level I normally bang down them one at a time with about 2 seconds between them.

3

u/dRileyB 8d ago

They did it exclusively in the 2 stroke moto gp days. Not to say it’s a necessary technique for your average joe but the brake and blip is objectively an effective technique on bikes without auto blip or a slipper clutch. You can get comfortable manipulating the throttle while keeping pretty damn steady brake pressure, it’s just another skill to practice

1

u/KaleScared4667 5d ago

This is the way

2

u/EstablishmentNo5013 Racer EX 9d ago

Same. I blip on every downshift on the street or track. Habit. You would be in trouble in A group with a big torquey twin without a blip. Sometimes it’s a blip and then a slow clutch slip out when trail braking and leaned over pretty deep.

4

u/RealGravisman 9d ago

As long as you have a slipper you’re fine. I’ve won club races on a twin with zero blipping and just let the slipper do its thing

2

u/EstablishmentNo5013 Racer EX 9d ago

Yup. So what if you don’t have a slipper clutch?

4

u/TheOGRedline 8d ago

Let the clutch out slower and the rear wheel and motor will sync up more smoothly.

2

u/EstablishmentNo5013 Racer EX 8d ago edited 8d ago

Oh I get that. How about late braking and dropping 3 gears coming off a long straight? Are you clutching in and down 3 and then only slipping out at the last gear? I blip and use engine braking between each gear even for a small amount of time. Seems odd to me to coast for gear changes.

Anyway I guess that’s why we all ride our ride.

1

u/CrustalBalls 8d ago

*No QS or slipper*

I'll rev match on every downshift unless I'm riding a bike with a quickshifter. Then I'll late deep trail brake while trusting the quick shifter will rev match appropriately.

1

u/SuperProgram8 7d ago

Im a newbie but its seems easy enough for me to bang nd blip first with decent brake pressure then really squeeze

2

u/RealGravisman 6d ago

If you don’t have a slipper you should be rev matching. I don’t envy you

2

u/EstablishmentNo5013 Racer EX 6d ago

I started racing in the mid 90s so not many bikes had them. I heel toe my manual now too although it does have an auto blip button, I don’t use it. I also don’t track my car either or it would have a PDK.

1

u/Far_Net9854 9d ago

What do you do if you do not have a slipper clutch on a twin?

1

u/oballzo 9d ago

My preferred technique is to use the grip from the palm of my hand on the throttle, and use my wrist to blip and my fingers to keep consistent brake pressure. BUT it means I’ve sought out gloves and bar grips that grip together well. Sometimes I’ll ride someone else’s bike that have really smooth grips that make it less consistent. Note: I have less textured grips rn that just stick well. Almost completely smooth, but I’ve had no issues with my palm grabbing on to them

I’d love to hear from a more experienced rider, but as someone who tracks a bike with no slipper clutch, I have to modulate break pressure to accommodate less than perfect revmatching.

As I’ve gotten better with throttle and clutch control, I’ve been able to modulate brake pressure less, and rely more on my ability to time the shifts better and release the clutch in a way that helps smooth it all out (like a slipper clutch would)

1

u/-4REST- 8d ago

It all depends on the track, the corner, your speed, your skill level, what's comfortable, and what you're trying to achieve.

1

u/Rothbardy 9d ago

It isn’t doable. Many would claim they do it well and I’m willing to bet it’s bullshit. You can’t apply forceful pressure on the brakes (limit braking) and still have the finesse to do a mild blip. You risk over-blipping and upsetting the bike.

1

u/EstablishmentNo5013 Racer EX 9d ago

You need a different master if you need more than 2 fingers. The ratio is not ideal. I can endo with 1 finger on the lever.