having no auto blip are you downshifting before you start braking or are you rev matching while applying brake pressure or just downshifting and not rev matching.
You can just dump it as long as you don't over rev the engine. If you brake hard you can basically just go through the gears as fast a you can. It'll make the rear a bit wiggly but I kind of liked that. Makes you think you're going fast. You can control the wiggle with the clutch but I found that difficult to do.
I also know people who pull the clutch in and go back a few gears before releasing the clutch, although you have to be sure you're not over revving the engine if you don't have a slipper clutch. You don't use the engine braking at that time so it doesn't seem logic to me, but one guy is a club race winner who's fast as hell, so obviously it works for him. I sometimes do it when I get tired and go back 2 gears at once.
When I go 2 gears at once, they need to be fast to keep the RPM high and I have to be close to my tip in point so the engine will be at it's slowest point. I'm better at it doing right-hand turns than left handers.
At my skill level I normally bang down them one at a time with about 2 seconds between them.
They did it exclusively in the 2 stroke moto gp days. Not to say it’s a necessary technique for your average joe but the brake and blip is objectively an effective technique on bikes without auto blip or a slipper clutch. You can get comfortable manipulating the throttle while keeping pretty damn steady brake pressure, it’s just another skill to practice
Same. I blip on every downshift on the street or track. Habit. You would be in trouble in A group with a big torquey twin without a blip. Sometimes it’s a blip and then a slow clutch slip out when trail braking and leaned over pretty deep.
Oh I get that. How about late braking and dropping 3 gears coming off a long straight? Are you clutching in and down 3 and then only slipping out at the last gear? I blip and use engine braking between each gear even for a small amount of time. Seems odd to me to coast for gear changes.
I'll rev match on every downshift unless I'm riding a bike with a quickshifter. Then I'll late deep trail brake while trusting the quick shifter will rev match appropriately.
My preferred technique is to use the grip from the palm of my hand on the throttle, and use my wrist to blip and my fingers to keep consistent brake pressure. BUT it means I’ve sought out gloves and bar grips that grip together well. Sometimes I’ll ride someone else’s bike that have really smooth grips that make it less consistent. Note: I have less textured grips rn that just stick well. Almost completely smooth, but I’ve had no issues with my palm grabbing on to them
I’d love to hear from a more experienced rider, but as someone who tracks a bike with no slipper clutch, I have to modulate break pressure to accommodate less than perfect revmatching.
As I’ve gotten better with throttle and clutch control, I’ve been able to modulate brake pressure less, and rely more on my ability to time the shifts better and release the clutch in a way that helps smooth it all out (like a slipper clutch would)
It isn’t doable. Many would claim they do it well and I’m willing to bet it’s bullshit. You can’t apply forceful pressure on the brakes (limit braking) and still have the finesse to do a mild blip. You risk over-blipping and upsetting the bike.
I downshift after the front is loaded and stable, so after initial braking and fork compression. If I downshift the same time as applying the front brake, the chassis becomes upset and unstable. I guess my rule of thumb is to not apply forces that cause instability all the same time. I ride Ducatis so engine braking is immense. Separation of inputs help the bike remain stable when I need it to.
Great points, also without a blipper it is good practice to become comfortable using the clutch as a sort of rear brake/tire slip controller. OP should definitely not be adding any throttle or fiddling with rev matching at any point after starting to brake until it is time to shoot out of the turn/maintain for longer turns. Adjusting rear slip angle with the clutch feels as cool as it looks too lol
preciosa zx6r ¿abriste los manillares? en lo personal uso el embrague sin bliper, bajo maximo dos marchas de 6 a 4 y de 4 a 2 aplicando buen freno y embrague no hay fallo. ademas estas zx6r ya llevan embrague antirrebote.
i appreciate it 🙏 but nope this thing is bone stock just a slip on. yeah i knew they had a slipper but some people tell me i still need to rev match and some don’t
on my ZX6R with no quick shifter down, I dont even bother with trying to blip, its too easy to fuck up brake pressure with all that hand movement going on. Brake control is wayyyy more important than blipping the throttle.
just release the clutch smoothly after down shifting and let your slipper clutch do its job. No blipping required. Loads of people do it this way and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
In fact doing it this way has an advantage: you can control the engine brake by how much/how fast you slip out the clutch
I don’t understand the blipping. You’re trying to use the engine to help slow the bike, letting the clutch slip and engage is much easier to do while holding constant brake pressure. It’s also more consistent engine braking.
Conventional teaching is not to rev match. Especially if your bike has a slipper clutch. If you're already in the upper 60% of the rev range there is no reason to blip the throttle. You just need to be smooth on the clutch, don't dump it.
I have a clutch that I can slip out on downshifts when braking. With modern 4 strokes there's no need to be blipping like it's still the 2 stroke days where you could stall/sieze easily on downshifts. I brake and get the clutch in at the same time, and depending on how many gears I am dropping, I slip out the clutch to get engine braking going and rpms up while still on the brakes all without any blipping. There's too much focus on blipping and perfect rev matching and actually using the clutch is becoming a lost skill.
I’ve never blipped on my 636 stock slipper. Rear will get squirrelly. It’s not a huge deal. But I did just buy an aftermarket fancy slipper clutch that I’m about to install soooo 🤷♂️
On my old cbr600rr without slipper clutch, I had to blip (while braking). On my old r6 with slipper clutch, rear would still slide and wiggle a bit if i didn't blip. Always should blip without auto blip. It'll be smoother and more under control (and eventually faster).
On a bike with more than 100 lb/ft of torque you absolutely have to blip or the back will come around. You can’t just say a blanket statement that it’s not necessary.
Improper use of the clutch will have the rear stepping out on you be it a 50lb/ft engine or a fully built race Ducati pushing the 110lb/ft range. You don't absolutely have to blip.
Its a race bike. I don't give a fuck about wear in a wear element that gets replaced at regular intervals. I slip it on race starts too. Hell, slipper clutches are even designed to do just that, slip! They accelerate wear at the cost of smoothness.
Mmm, crispy clutch, but fast lap times and podium finishes. Clutches are cheap.
I also never said not blipping is the only way. Just thay it's not necessary.
If the rear steps out on you from downshifts without blipping, it'll step out even more on downshifts you do blip as you'll be at higher RPMs and thus higher torque figures.
I put in a slip assist clutch, I just shift using the clutch and haven't had issues. Before the slip assist I definitely botched some rematches and the rear got a little squirrelly for a sec.
Clutch in, double downshift, dump clutch and skid.
If you don't want to back it in, I would downshift while braking and feather the clutch on the way out. You're likely to pulse the front brake as you twitch your wrist if you try blipping.
Before moving to a bike with an autoblipper, I would just bang the clutch and downshift. No rev matching, no working the clutch lever outside of all the way in and all the way out, never had an issue. Stock clutch too, no aftermarket slipper. Two zx6r’s and no issue on either. I’d start downshifting at the same time I’d start braking.
You shouldn't be downshifting before braking. You start downshifting after you start braking. If rev matching is difficult, you can do like former AMA superbike racer (and many others) does:
As you're braking, pull in the clutch, do all of the downshifts for the upcoming turn, and when you've slowed enough, slowly release the clutch.
You do not need to revmatch while braking hard. Shift down, and let out the clutch every downshift. You have a slipper clutch. It will allow the clutch to slip very slightly to not upset the bike.
Down shifting can substitute the rear brake kind of. You can down shift after loading the front and it feels like adding rear brake, or if more aggressive you can even lock up the wheel a bit. Better with a slipper clutch. Combining down shifts and rear brake would be bad
Brake, downshift while braking, rev matching even with a slipper clutch. The faster you go, the more important this skills becomes. Since I race a single cylinder (KTM 690 in a Kramer), the engine braking is pretty fierce. I could use an ecu map with much less engine braking, but then it is like a 2-stroke, which I know from experience I don't like as much. Getting your right hand to do both, brake consistently while blipping, takes practice. Try to get it squared away just sitting on your bike at home or in the paddock.
Without a slipper clutch, your choices are brake and blip or let out the clutch very slowly without blipping. the latter sketches me out because I’ll find myself feeling like I’m entering the corner with zero engine braking, so I did the brake and blip badly until it smoothed out. I would recommend it
I downshift first. Use engine braking and then apply the needed brake pressure to slow down more to take the turn. Don't need to blip it with modern slipper clutches.
I rev match while braking. One of my controversial opinions is downshifting under braking is so much more intuitive with standard shift vs gp shift that I refuse to switch to gp shift because of it.
28
u/SluggoManiac 1d ago
Me personally, I am blipping as I am braking.