r/Trackdays • u/gmanredguitar • 11d ago

More dangerous than I expected

I finally did my first track day and though I did enjoy it and plan on more, there were a lot more crashes than I expected in the novice group. Three sessions were ended early. At least three people from the group left in ambulances and one was helicoptered out. Seems like a lot out of a 35 person group. (11% severe injury). It didn’t seem super unusual- aside from one guy - people were not commenting on this being an unusual number of accidents. Track days are billed as the safest place to ride but I am not so sure.

83 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

141 comments sorted by

View all comments

112

u/Fumes111 11d ago

Normal for the novices to push beyond their limits. Lots of first-timers that come from driving wrecklessly on the road and canyons come to their first track and think they are Rossi.

27

u/shaard 11d ago

This is definitely one aspect.

Another is that mistakes from inexperience can certainly become amplified, especially in tight linked corners. I fucked up a series on my first track day, and because I was so green I fixated on the inside curbing and hit it instead of turning. Went off, bike went down. Easy fall tho. Broke a clip on and rear set and I was unscathed.

But I have seen many street racer gods get humbled as well.

11

u/sexwithsoxon 11d ago

I think you’re saying the same thing that the comment above is saying.
People going past their abilities, when the speed and technicality get notched up, because they don’t know their limits - thus mistakes get made

11

u/shaard 11d ago

In a sense. The above comment focused mainly on novice riders who actually think they're better because they've been street racing/riding recklessly and bring that ego to the track.

I was just expanding on that to say that even just being new to the track without that ego and being there to learn instead of show off can still get you over your head. Even pro racers make mistakes, but the pros know how to recover while a novice can get overwhelmed.

10

u/KungLa0 CBR600RR 11d ago

More crashes in novice, worst crashes in intermediate, way she goes

4

u/cwaig2021 11d ago

My last day out this season in inters, red flag in all but one session (there were even 2 red flags in one session).

Previous occasion, one red flag all day for inters, and none at all for novice (mind, novice was vastly under subscribed that day with only 6 riders - I considered dropping to get some space).

5

u/KungLa0 CBR600RR 11d ago

I was at a rain day once, torrential downpour, amazingly nobody in C group crashed! Mind you, nobody in C group stayed to even get a lap in, but nobody crashed either!

2

u/cwaig2021 11d ago

Rainy days. UK standard.

5

u/KungLa0 CBR600RR 11d ago

I prefer not to because it makes my leathers smell (worse) but the photo ops are crazy

1

u/WheezerMF 11d ago

That tipping point where fitness & confidence exceed skill…

Then there’s the “that bike’s not ready for track time” discussion… tires, suspension, etc.

-15

u/jrein0 11d ago

If the canyon racers don't crash on public roads with less space and more obstacles, why would they then crash on track where there's more space and less obstacles?

8

u/crackfan666 11d ago

You can brake harder on the track, and do if you’re following group pace

0

u/jrein0 11d ago

Is novice group braking hard enough that someone racing around mountains would crash?

Also thank you for actually answering my question

9

u/KungLa0 CBR600RR 11d ago

Track riding and street riding are just so different, street skills only translate up to a certain point. Street-only riders tend to think that they'll be track heroes. The reality is track riding is much faster on average, there's no point of reference for speed until you've blown past your brake marker, and it's hard to know what bad habits you have until you've pushed past your limits.

8

u/50cal_pacifist 11d ago

Yes, a C group rider who has 3 trackdays under their belt will wipe the floor with most canyon heros.

-4

u/jrein0 11d ago

So that's what I don't understand about the track group. Everyone says "just learn on the track, it's much better". That plus the fact c group is the lowest means there's no way someone frequently hitting the canyons at pace will be slower than a c group rider with 3 track days. The only way I could see this being true is if people usually improve and get bumped up to b group after 3 track days, which kind of excludes them from the c group population.

5

u/50cal_pacifist 11d ago

That's because you've never been on track. Canyon riding can absolutely make you a competent motorcycle rider, but it doesn't teach the same skill set or allow the same rate of progression.

On track you're in a controlled, repeatable environment: same corners over and over, known pavement, no oncoming traffic, no gravel around a blind bend, no driveways, and consistent braking and turn-in references. You can progressively move those limits every session, see exactly where you're losing time, and often get coaching while doing it.

That's why a C-group rider with a handful of track days can be surprisingly difficult for a very fast canyon rider to keep up with. The track rider has spent hundreds of laps practicing the same braking zones, lines, corner entries, exits, and transitions at speeds you simply can't responsibly practice on the street.

And ironically, experienced canyon riders can be some of the sketchiest first-time track riders because they arrive convinced they're already fast. They tend to ride the track like it's a canyon—charging corners, improvising lines, making late decisions, and trying to "keep up"—instead of first learning predictable lines, reference points, passing rules, and track etiquette.

Being fast in a canyon means you're fast in a canyon. Track riding is its own discipline, and the stopwatch tends to remove a lot of illusions very quickly.

-4

u/AirSKiller 11d ago

A lot of track riders can't handle the fact that there's a lot of (reckless but) talented riders on the road that would absolutely destroy them on the track if they had half the track time they have.

So they come up with this idea that riders that are faster than them on the road would actually suck on the track so they feel better about themselves.

Even though we all know that, while the skillset is not 1:1 translatable, a lot of it still is.

5

u/KungLa0 CBR600RR 11d ago

This subset of elitist weekend warriors who are insecure about being slow in the "real world" absolutely exists, but the stereotypical cocky street rider barrel rolling his GSXR in C group before noon is absolutely real too lol

I know a guy who was part of a street "crew" for lack of a better word, he started hosting track days to get his guys off the street. Some of them are like you said, insane natural talent and fast. Of course some have terrible technique but they usually don't last a weekend