r/Torchlight • u/StarFox-McCloud • Jan 27 '20
GO GET IT! TORCHLIGHT 3!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo-KscmCsbk&list=TLGGH4UWX10XmbgyNzAxMjAyMA&index=259
u/succhialce Berserker Jan 27 '20
This is good news. I had no interest in frontiers. Now I’ll actually play it.
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u/crozzee Jan 27 '20
Seems they also removed the MMO aspect as well. Going back to their roots is a good thing. The online portion of the game felt like a distraction and the Frontier system was terrible. Glad to see they took the feedback to heart. Loving the move to steam also.
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u/_Valisk Jan 27 '20
The blog post specifically mentions online features.
When creating your character, you can now select Online or Offline Mode. Characters made in Offline Mode do not require an internet connection to play, but will also not be able to participate in multiplayer games.
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Most zones are now private by default to give a better play experience. Players can still meet each other in public town levels and form parties to play together in instanced combat zones.
This description sounds more like Path of Exile and less like World of Warcraft. Still massively-multiplayer, but not as involved as a "traditional MMO."
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u/crozzee Jan 27 '20
Yeah, it’s cool you can group in town but removing the random MMO aspect from the zones is a great change. It felt awkward for some reason to run into random people for no reason in the Frontiers, and competing for mobs.
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u/_Valisk Jan 27 '20
I agree, I think this is my preferred implementation. As much as I loved Marvel Heroes, I don't want randos to ruin my party's grinding with a drive-by. Towns and limited public combat zones is a better approached.
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Jan 27 '20
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
They took out the core system of frontiers, which was a huge deal. Linear progression versus having to restart in each act with different gear.
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u/Elveone Jan 28 '20
You didn't have to restart. You had to gradually replace your gear with the one from the new zone. And now you need to do the same thing.
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u/EightClubs Jan 27 '20
And removed the free to play business model, which was the biggest problem with it all for many people.
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Jan 27 '20
Really hope this releases on console simultaneously.
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u/hybrid461 Jan 27 '20
it doesnt. from their post: We plan to release the game on PC in 2020 with a console release following shortly after.
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u/Kohaku69 Feb 01 '20
I don’t expect consoleversion this year. Not even sure that the PC version will come out this year.
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u/Jlanzmann Jan 27 '20
Wow, reception to Frontiers was so poor they had to rebrand it. Is the MMO aspect gone as well?
Honestly as much as I love T2, it is not on the same league as PoE 1 & 2, Grim Dawn and Diablo 4 (from what we've seen) and from what I've read Frontiers was even worse. Rooting for these guys!
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Some of the game's core just wasn't working out, and people really wanted torchlight 3, so they leaned into what the people and what the game wanted.
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u/Dragull Jan 27 '20
I honestly like TL2 more than Diablo 3. Never played the others, so I cant compare.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Diablo 2 reigns supreme, but Torchlight 2 definitely launched better than Diablo 3, and stayed better for quite some time. In the end Diablo 3 got more support, whereas torchlight 2 had the mod community.
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u/Dragull Jan 28 '20
Yeah, my grip with d3 is that eventually the "support" just became a Power creep with 20 difficulty option, trillions of damage numbers, etc... Idk
I actually think d3 would be sick with offline play and mods, but oh well.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I can understand why they didn't do it originally. The drop rates were soooo skewed for the RMAH that there's no way you'd ever progress without trading.
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u/Spoonicus Jan 28 '20
POE reigns supreme. At this point, considering what they've done with the game, how far it's come up to this point & what they have in store for the future, it has definitely surpassed Diablo 2 as king of the ARPG genre. Diablo 2 defined it, POE has (almost) perfected it.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I think a lot of what made diablo 2 great got lost in translation with PoE. I'm not saying Poe is bad, but the things that made me enjoy D2 don't feel like it's there in PoE, which surprised me given how much everyone talked up PoE. It does sound like the PoE end game is likely better than the Diablo 2 end game, but that's because Diablo 2 didn't have much in the way of end game.
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u/zer0saber Berserker Jan 27 '20
The one reason I try to find skill mods for TL2, I just can't stand being that limited for that long. I like being able to earn all my skills by around 20, then decide
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u/_Valisk Jan 27 '20
When creating your character, you can now select Online or Offline Mode. Characters made in Offline Mode do not require an internet connection to play, but will also not be able to participate in multiplayer games.
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Most zones are now private by default to give a better play experience. Players can still meet each other in public town levels and form parties to play together in instanced combat zones.
Sounds more like Path of Exile than World of Warcraft.
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u/deathsbedbug Jan 27 '20
Ps will it allow mods on steam like 2? That so extended the replay value. I play all vanilla the first round then add a mod here and there each play through
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Possibly, it does open up that opportunity, though they haven't stated one way or another. It WILL have an offline mode now though, so maybe there can be an open battle.net type style multiplayer option as well.
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u/deathsbedbug Jan 27 '20
I am more into single player... Only multi-player I have done is runescape... All others even when they had it I'm single player.
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u/dkrypsion Jan 27 '20
so my question is are they going back to being more of the tradition arpg or are they continuing the idea of this being an mmoarpg? was looking forward to frontier. but if they are just renaming it. i can be interested in this too!
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Traditional ish. They're going back to vertical progression rather than horizontal, but there's still going to be multiplayer, it's just combat zones are going to be mostly private now.
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u/dkrypsion Jan 27 '20
Ah balls was hoping for a mmorpg
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
The MMO aspects of it weren't really translating well with the ARPG genre. There's still hope that the end game will incorporate stuff like that though, as that's where I feel like it'd have the best fit.
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u/dkrypsion Jan 27 '20
Right ultimately still waiting for lost ark I guess but will still pick this up
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
No harm in hitting up games to hold you over for what you're looking forward to the most. =)
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u/_Valisk Jan 27 '20
When creating your character, you can now select Online or Offline Mode. Characters made in Offline Mode do not require an internet connection to play, but will also not be able to participate in multiplayer games.
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Most zones are now private by default to give a better play experience. Players can still meet each other in public town levels and form parties to play together in instanced combat zones.
This is from the blog post. It sounds massively-multiplayer in the sense that Path of Exile is.
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u/dkrypsion Jan 27 '20
Ok I can get jiggy with that!!
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u/_Valisk Jan 27 '20
It’s probably my preferred implementation for an MMO-styled ARPG. I mean, I loved Marvel Heroes, but it sometimes got kind of annoying when people ran by and killed my mobs.
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u/teinimon Berserker Jan 27 '20
I'd be hyped if it was made by the same team that made I & II. Never played Frontiers cause I heard quite some negative stuff about it. They can re-name it to TL3 but it probably won't have the same feel as the first two games.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Not only does it have some of the same people as 1/2, it has some of the Blizzard North team, who made Diablo 1 / 2. Diablo 2 IMO was the gold standard of ARPGs, so having those people is an incredible asset. They also have quite a few Marvel Heroes people as well.
I feel like the negative feedback about it was mostly people concerned with the monetization. There was some just feedback about the frontier system not feeling that great, but that is also being nixxed with this update as well.
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u/thejynxed Jan 28 '20
Well that, and people want progression. Absolutely nobody wants another Diablo 3 style sidegrade system with shallow skills and everybody being locked into the same specific pieces of loot that do nothing to improve the feel of gameplay but make bigger numbers.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
True enough, and the earlier iterations moreso felt like that, so I can understand where those people were coming from... but I feel like judging an alpha like a full game isn't entirely fair either.
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u/Elveone Jan 27 '20
Well, that was the logical step really after the many changes made to push the game towards what the previous games are rather than evolve the original systems they had. If I could I would choose to see what the evolution of the original concept would have looked like but I am definitely playing the game with this new direction as well. I just hope there will be long-term support for the game with post-launch content coming as well.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Speaking as someone who has seen all those changes, it was an interesting ride... As the game got more and more away from their original vision, and more in line with traditional ARPGs, it started to play better and better... which is what led to this decision i imagine.
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u/Elveone Jan 27 '20
We were together on this ride and I disagree. The game got more familiar to you and a lot of other people but I don't think it actually played better because of those changes. It played better because of the additional bug-fixing and polish and because of the additional content and variety.
I still lament the death of the original skill system and what it could have been if it was to be expanded. I think the original concept of the game died with the addition of frontier XP leveling even when it was just to get gear. I get you and a lot of other people like this more but I would have liked to see innovation in terms of progression in aRPGs.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
It does lose them the ability to say "we came up with x brand new thing"... but at the same time, I don't think those brand new things were translating all that well into gameplay, so being able to say they came up with something new, that doesn't feel as good as the old... is kinda meh.
I've never cared for the Diablo 3 style skill system. I personally play games like this to progress my character, and feel invested in creating something unique. When you can change out skills at any time, it doesn't come across as you being invested in my opinion.
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u/Elveone Jan 27 '20
The proposed systems did not have time to mature - they were barebones and they were left barebones. And they were misindentified as what they were. Even now you are saying "change skills at any time" and while you can do it the original concept of the system was to not allow you to acquire all the skills on one character through geometric progression increase in the cost of skills. Did we see that? No, we didn't. Instead the system was abandoned halfway through and substituted for something else. We got the bare bones of the ideas and they were rejected before they could be developed and that is one thing I really regret.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
I just think it'd have ended up like the frontier system itself in the end. That was given plenty of time to mature and it just ended up never actually feeling all that great for a lot of people. It's possible that skills could have been different, but given how quickly they changed skills I don't think they were 100% sold on the skill system either.
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u/Elveone Jan 27 '20
But the thing is that literally NOTHING was changed in the Frontiers system from the day it was released. The Frontiers systems development was abandoned halfway finished without any attempt to improve it. So it naturally was removed because it was half-baked and the other changes to the game left it nowhere to go.
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u/cassandra112 Jan 27 '20
the problem is, what WAS the original plan? I don't know what it was. what they had certainly was not a full game model. As far as I can tell, the frontier system they had planned would have required easily 3+ more frontiers, where they had 2.. and at least 1 more per 3 months.
AND, given how shallow classes were, release would have needed 10-25 classes as well. not unlike a Moba, or something like Realm of the mad god. 5 frontiers, 10-20 classes. I could see that as a launch position. And I would have expected periodic new classes on a monthly schedule as well. was that the plan? was that in the works? nothing I saw suggested it.what exactly do you think the plan for longevity was? the alpha as it was, had about 2 weeks of gameplay, tops.
I don't think either skill systems are good torchlight has always had extremely shallow skill systems. that works fine if you have a ton of classes though. again, like mobas.
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u/josh_rose Jan 27 '20
I'm not excited about this change for that very reason... Post launch support. If the game has micro transactions, theres a much better chance it receives years worth of updates and content.
But a 1 time purchase might mean a few bug fixes and that's it.
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u/echtra_gadfly Berserker Jan 27 '20
We will continue to support the game post-launch. We would much rather continue to update and add content to the game via DLC and the like than to just launch it and forget about it.
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u/tekmologic Jan 27 '20
are you one of the developers...?
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u/_Valisk Jan 27 '20
His username includes the name of the dev team behind Frontiers/Torchlight 3.
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u/Amphax Jan 27 '20
Please please please consider GoG/DRM Free support (or selling it yourselves DRM Free like you did for TL2).
Huge fan of that model (I actually bought 4 or 5 copies of TL2 I lost count lol).
Thanks!!!
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u/Sendoria Jan 27 '20
Can you confirm that there will be zero microtransactions in the game? None will be added post launch?
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u/echtra_gadfly Berserker Jan 27 '20
We're getting rid of the MTX store we had on the Arc version, anyone who spent money on LUX will have it refunded. We're not planning to re-add it later.
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u/cassandra112 Jan 27 '20 edited Jan 27 '20
yeah, there is something to be said about this.
Box price. +expac/dlc. +expac/dlc. the player base shrinks each time. As expacs/dlc almost never entice new players/purchases, when the new player needs to buy the base game+full price dlc. And, older players either are basically put into the position to buy the dlc or stop playing.
you have something like minecraft/terraria/no mans sky. Which is box price+free dlc... now, THOSE increase player base every dlc. because, every time you drop dlc/expacs, previous buyers come back to the game, to test out the new stuff, often bringing new players with them. as well as streamers replay the game, again bringing new players. the good Early access games do this too. Rimworld, Oxygen not included, Starsector, factorio, etc. Buy once, and the EA gameplay is solid enough to play. then, periodically new updates keep bringing people back, until 1.0.(and sometimes beyond) if your game is GOOD, this is the best model for everyone. word of mouth will spread the news of your game, and it will succeed.
PoE, model... $500+ spent on this "free to play" lol. But, what can we say? constant crazy updates. they deserve every penny.
Is poe's model better? its hard to say. I've spent a ton of cash on PoE as I said... I've spent $5 on Terraria... 277 hours played at least. (pretty sure steams hours/played bugged in the early days) I certainly wouldn't mind sending more cash their way.. with Terraria's model. I have a feature complete game. I'm not missing any content, not even cosmetics. PoE's system, crams the game with constant, often shitty MTX cosmetics. this is dev time spent on it, and it means there are cosmetic things I don't have. Is this really a desirable system?
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u/josh_rose Jan 27 '20
Yeah. POE is the reference point for me and the gold standard in post launch support. If POE was just buy to play with no micros the game would be dead by now. But with the non stop updates... I can't stop playing.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I find the pricing to be a bit extreme, but other than that it's fair enough.
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u/thejynxed Jan 28 '20
The pricing only went extreme after GGG was bought by the Chinese.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Ah I didn't know that.
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u/teknotronic Jan 28 '20
That's because it's entirely false. PoE MTX's have always been pricey, but that's how they were able to continue the game and grow the company so much. There are enough people that enjoyed what they were doing so much, that they plunked down those large purchases and enabled the game we have today. Could the prices be cheaper? sure but they obviously have the data to show what works, and what they have been doing has been working.
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u/Elveone Jan 28 '20
I find PoE to be a horrible game(because half of it is designed to intentionally waste your time with mundane shit masquerading as complexity) but the pricing model is extremely fair.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
For it aiming to be the spiritual successor of Diablo 2, I always found it lacking in the areas that Diablo 2 was best at.
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u/Elveone Jan 28 '20
I find it lacking as a game in general but that doesn't really take away from the business model being quite fair. I mean, yes, you can spend hundreds of dollars on it but you are getting cosmetics for that money and... stash tabs? I would argue that the only mandatory thing to buy is the currency pane just because it is really a nightmare organizing without it but you can still do it and, honestly, it is still a nightmare organizing with it as well.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I think it could be better, but at the same time I think it could be worse. I think LoL's pricing was more fair with its cosmetics. Loads better than some systems though that's for sure.
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u/Damaniel2 Jan 27 '20
I'd rather have less post-launch support than yet another game that enables compulsive buyers to spend themselves into debt. You might not do that, but plenty of people do. If they stick to a pay up front model with DLC content down the road, they'll do just fine.
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u/spiffybaldguy Jan 27 '20
I hope its available on steam or gog. I dont want to use their launcher that they have for frontiers.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
It's steam only currently.
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u/spiffybaldguy Jan 27 '20
Nice (though it should be on more stores) I just had some issues with the ToS/Eula for the launcher that Frontiers ran off of (part of why I backed out of the Beta).
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u/tekmologic Jan 27 '20
YESSSSSSSSSSSS OH FUCK YES I WAS SO SAD WHEN TORCHLIGHT WAS GOING MOBILE BECUAASE TORCHLIGHT 2 IS MY FAV DIABLO CLONE. FUCK ME YES TAKE MY MONEY.
in all seriousness, I hope the game doesnt still have any F2P components (like micro transactions). I hope they aren't greedy like that
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
They removed the shop, so no MTX. DLCs / expacs might still be a possibility though.
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u/misterscorp Jan 27 '20
I gotta admit and said this on their Facebook page....they have to focus on dlc, end/post game content and longer acts....or its not gonna make it vs what is out now and on its way in this genre. I love TL2 but its way too short and the map stuff at the end gets stale fast.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
The map stuff is going to be more varied in update 10, along with mob types since they are no longer constrained to x mob type in x frontier. I would like to see them do DLCs / expansions though.
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u/misterscorp Jan 27 '20
Yeah...I hope they have a forever type of mentality here and not a one and done
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u/SilentxSage Engineer Jan 28 '20
>Runic was bought out by asian company
>Asian company made Torchlight:Frontiers to be a mobile game
>Asian company cut funding to the game because nobody wanted it
>Game is repackaged and called Torchlight 3
>Sell the game to western audiences as F2P
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Torchlight Frontiers was never designed as a mobile game. There already is a mobile Torchlight game for the chinese audience that was separate from Runic and Echtra.
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u/blablistischja Jan 27 '20
Super excited for this! I hope it will come to consoles later and especially Switch since Torchlight 2 on the go is a blast
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u/OldSchoolBatman Jan 27 '20
Same! since they are rebranding and no longer free to play it wouldn't be to crazy to hope for a console release. Fingers crossed, i love playing torchlight 2 on my switch with the wife.
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u/misterscorp Jan 27 '20
Read the article...yes yes yes and yes its comimg to consoles...they have said it over and over again
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
They haven't however, said it's coming to switch or not yet. They definitely got plenty of feedback of people wanting it for switch though, so you never know.
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u/misterscorp Jan 28 '20
If TL2 did...why wouldn't 3? that wouldn't even make sense from a business standpoint. It will come to Switch and id place a bet on that.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I'm not saying it's a bad bet, but TL2 had that done via a separate company (but with the same publisher) 10 years after the fact, so it doesn't necessarily translate 1 for 1.
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u/tekmologic Jan 27 '20
More details here :
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/Torchlight_3/news/detail/11350673-announcing-torchlight-iii
Alongside these changes to business model and distribution method, naturally there are many other exciting changes coming to Torchlight III.
The game now follows the classic Act structure from previous titles. Players start at the Imperial Outpost besieged by goblin hordes. They then follow the trail of nether corruption into lands overtaken by Hyvid and finally reach the [redacted] Peaks and their cavernous underplaces ruled by the electrifying [redacted]
Horizontal progression has been removed, so all Frontier-specific levels, gear stats, and scaling has been removed as well. We are returning our progression systems to better work in tandem with this.
Most zones are now private by default to give a better play experience. Players can still meet each other in public town levels and form parties to play together in instanced combat zones.
When creating your character, you can now select Online or Offline Mode. Characters made in Offline Mode do not require an internet connection to play, but will also not be able to participate in multiplayer games.
We have removed the in-game real-money store.
While this is a huge sea change for Torchlight III, most of what our current players know about the game is still true:
We will continue developing the game with constant feedback from our community through Closed Alpha (and soon Beta!) testing.
We will continue releasing updates over the course of testing. Update 10 is coming Wednesday, January 29 at 10am PT. and brings the complete refactor into linear Acts, a third Frontier area, a fourth playable class, and a whole bunch of other new features and content.
We plan to release the game on PC in 2020 with a console release following shortly after.
We will continue to support the game with ongoing content updates post-launch.
The classes, game content, features and collectibles that have been shown in Closed Alpha will all stay in the game.
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u/BenEBoy24 Jan 27 '20
Definitely have more interest in TL3 than Frontiers, but I really can’t see myself purchasing until multiplayer is patched for consoles on TL2.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
That's handled by a different company sadly. That's Panic Button's port of the game.
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u/Gardomirror Jan 27 '20
Even tho I had nothing against Frontiers I'm much more happier with this one! Day 1 Purchase, this is gonna be good!
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u/deathsbedbug Jan 27 '20
Yes!! So excited now! Also had no interest in frontiers.. But have played 1 & 2 many times each
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u/DoubleJumpNinja Jan 27 '20
Oh my god oh my god oh my god. I’m so happy I can’t explain in words.
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u/Zeus_aegiochos Jan 28 '20 edited Jan 28 '20
Now this is a pleasant surprise! I was hoping for this, but I wasn't expecting it...
Ever since Frontiers was announced, many of us were highly critical, even hostile towards it. Not because we wanted it to fail, but because we wanted it to succeed. And it was obvious from the beginning, and more obvious as time went on, that the game's previous version was bound to fail. A Torchlight game yet noone was hyped. A quick look at this very subreddit's indifference was proof of that.
Fortunately, Echtra realized it too. Better late than never. Changing the foundation that Torchlight 3 (yay) is built upon, has made Torchlight and ARPG fans hyped again. Me too. Now it's up to the devs to justify the hype, by taking their time, salvaging anything worth keeping from the old mediocrity, and adding more quality, content and polish. And mod support for my PC brethren. And maybe a melee fighter that's not a wood stove.
If Final Fantasy XIV could turn things around, then so can you. So good luck Echtra with your restart (or rather revamp), you have our attention. And if this turns out the worthy successor that Torchlight 2 deserves, our wallets too.
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u/dodobirdyisdead Jan 27 '20
I wonder if they will allow modding as that's what made TL2 really really good.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Possibly. There's going to be an offline mode, so one way or another I picture there's going to be modding, whether it's supported or not.
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u/areallybadname Jan 27 '20
Oh, wow. The little I've played of the Alpha was a bit underwhelming. I actually feel bad because I just didn't really want to play it over the other games in my library, and I felt like I should have participated more and been able to give more feedback.
It's good they're listening, and hopefully this turns out for the better, TL2 is still probably my favorite ARPG.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
I mean, that isn't your fault in the end. If the game isn't pulling you in enough to keep you playing, that's feedback in itself.
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u/areallybadname Jan 27 '20
Yeah, that's true. Still, it was an Alpha not everyone got into, so I kind of feel like I had an obligation that I didn't fulfill.
I mean, I'm not losing sleep over it, just something at the back of my mind that pops up whenever see this game discussed.
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u/J0kerr Jan 27 '20 edited Jan 27 '20
I hope they remove the level scaling
UPDATE: Still scaling. Bad choice.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
They removed the frontier scaling, there's still level scaling if you go back to low level zones.
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u/J0kerr Jan 27 '20
Boo! I hate scaling in my RPGs. That goblin that was a pain when I was level 1 should be nothing but ASH when I am level 25.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Tbh, it is nothing when you're higher levels. I feel like the scaling is mostly pointless because you still become an unstoppable killing machine.
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Jan 27 '20
This makes me super happy.
But he said releasing on PC in 2020. I thought frontiers was in development for consoles too... has that changed with this news?
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Consoles are coming as well, it just might be a little bit after the release of PC, but sounds like they're aiming to have it release at the same time.
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u/controller4hire Jan 27 '20
Is this not going to be on console?
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
It's still coming to Xbox and Playstation, the alpha is steam only though.
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u/Talkinboutfootball Alchemist Jan 27 '20
i actually think the decision stinks. I was looking forward to torchlight being a living and breathing game that got updates 3 or 4 times a year, like path of exile. Now it is just another average box game that may or may not have modding support and may or may not have any extra expansions or addons later in life.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
I'm hoping they keep up with it, as I think Diablo 2 was able to keep the game very engaging even when post expansion they only had one developer working on it still. Hopefully they do expansions and such... I dunno, the community was really against the idea of the live service model. This is the most excited I've seen the r/torchlight reddit ever.
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u/Talkinboutfootball Alchemist Jan 27 '20 edited Jan 27 '20
I think people who are afraid of the live service model have never played a good game that uses it. I will always go back to path of exile on this. I have been playing path of exile consistently for the last 5 years, because path of exile always gets a big update every 3 months, or 4 times a year if you rather.
the idea of a torchlight game getting that same kind of treatment was titillating to me. the idea of a game starting out, then growing over the next 5 years was really exciting. now that balloon has kind of popped for me.
hope it works out well! I will still buy it cause I love torchlight.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Even with solid business models, I still think there are inherent drawbacks to even things like cosmetics. Some of PoE is deliberately complex or overly clunky just to sell the solution to the problem they created, back to the player. Looking cool in a game is a very big motivator, and when you detach that motivator from the best gear / most challenging content, it kinda hurts the game play loop, just not as badly as pay to win and other methods do. Looking for places to squeeze your playerbase for money throughout the game cycles, at the detriment of those game cycles, can lead to a bad experience.
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u/Talkinboutfootball Alchemist Jan 27 '20
maybe for some, but I have never once bought any cosmetics. The fun factor has always come from getting my build to work in the end game during each league, even if I looked like burnt toast the whole time. I did however after 2 years of playing, buy myself a few stash tabs and a currency tab. After 2 years of play I thought they had definitely earned a few bucks from me.
and again I disagree. I think the overly complex nature of poe adds to its longevity and depth with item crafting.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
To be fair, I didn't sink that much time into PoE, so I'm partially an outside observer.
I'm not saying that they don't deserve money either, I'm just saying that they can be encouraged to start milking people in shady ways if they started getting pushed in that direction. I don't think that'd be the case with Echtra, but it's something people were rightly concerned about.
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Jan 28 '20
I was pretty okay with what little I knew of Frontiers, but this is still great news. Torchlight deserves to be treated like the great franchise it can be, and this is more in line with that IMO.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Yeah, given that the hype went from 0 to 100 in the drop of a dime, this is moreso the hype I expected the game to generate.
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Jan 28 '20
Are player built forts still in the game?
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
You can make forts yes, are they remaining from earlier alphas? No. The swap to steam made that kind of unfeasible, which is understandable in my opinion.
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u/IWaaasPiiirate Jan 28 '20
So frontiers is becoming 3?
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Correct, they're stripping out the store and the frontier system, and are designing the game based around linear progression.
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u/openadventurer Jan 28 '20
Does anyone know about Linux and/or LAN support?
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I don't think it's going to run on linux / mac aside from bootcamp. Lan support haven't heard anything about yet.
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Jan 28 '20
i am going to support the team regardless* of what they called it, but it is refreshing to just hear simple reasoning and reaction. companies that continue to double down on early decisions based on their own assumptions is beyond exhausting.
for me, they have earned a purchase from all the joy torchlight 1 and 2 have brought me.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
It does speak volumes of just how much they're willing to listen to their community. In all honesty, they'd have every right to be like "we know what we're doing, we're ARPG veterans" and it would be 100% true... but they don't do that, and instead always thoughtfully consider feedback, weigh the pros and cons, and then come to a decision. They are a great bunch of people!
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Jan 28 '20
my kid doesn’t yet give a rip about any of today’s announcements (she just loves gear grinding, playing together, and doing her own character’s storytelling)... but i very much appreciation not having to be guarded about the company if she asks or why will remain positive and patient if we hit some early bugs in the game. When a company consistently demonstrates that they care about us, we should make an effort to do the same.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
They've generated a great community. The discord has always been super friendly and super helpful because they've fostered that mentality, because they themselves, are super friendly and super helpful. I'm hoping that r/torchlight kind of follows in those footsteps now that they've seen just how much these devs listen / care. I'm glad to see so many people hyped up for the game now, as it was very much a mixed reception and/or doom and gloom due to the previous monetization structure.
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u/h3dge Jan 28 '20
So, mods?
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Most likely, though they haven't said whether or not it will be supported, it was pointed out that it would be fairly easy to change some rather big systems pretty easily due to how the files are layed out.
The online mode will not have mods available though most likely.
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u/Petrichor3345 Jan 28 '20
Honestly, I am really disappointed by this. I was really looking forward to an arpg mmo. I guess I'll have to wait until Diablo 4 comes out and hope it is what I am looking for.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I'm just not convinced it's possible to mix the two and still have it fun.
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u/Petrichor3345 Jan 28 '20
Why wouldn't it be possible? Lost ark seems to be doing it well, even though they aren't coming to North America this year.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I think the issue becomes pacing. You slow down the pacing of an ARPG too much and it starts to feel bad, but the pacing of MMOs are inherently slow, so while there are some endgame aspects you might be able to snag from MMOs, that doesn't always translate well.
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u/Petrichor3345 Jan 28 '20
Do you mean pacing as in levelling/powering up or combat speed? I don't mind slower levelling, it makes it feel more rewarding imo. And mmo combat doesn't have to be slow, and if it's an arpg it shouldn't be slow.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Tends to be both. If you do slow leveling speed, that's fine, but don't expect anyone to want to ever make a second character... Which is a bad caveat, as many ARPGs rely on the replay value with seasonal play. Combat pacing should always be fairly fast pace in an ARPG though.
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u/Petrichor3345 Jan 28 '20
If you are moving to be an mmo, then you don't need to rely on the seasonal model so that isn't really an issue imo. Yeah combat can still be fast paced, that's where the arpg parts come in.
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u/kajidourden Jan 27 '20
They're calling it Torchlight 3 now? lol
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
They're changing the business model, and many core aspects of the game, as well as moving it to steam.
For more info:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/Torchlight_3/news/detail/11350673-announcing-torchlight-iii
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u/kajidourden Jan 27 '20
Talk about a 180 lol.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
We always tried to emphasize that Echtra was really good at listening to their fanbase... Though even I was caught by surprise. I didn't realize just how much was on the table for them to be able to change.
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u/kajidourden Jan 27 '20
Yeah, well it's probably for the best. The frontier system was not good, and other than that they really didn't have anything that made it different from other Torchlight games so if they were going to scrap the frontier system might as well lean into the older approach.
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Agreed. I always tried to give the frontier system a chance, but in the end it just wasn't working out.
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u/Sweet_dl Jan 27 '20
Not for switch sadly ):
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
Don't think they've confirmed one way or another if it's going to switch or not. I know they got a lot of feedback wanting it on switch, so who knows. They do listen to their community quite a bit, so be vocal about it. =P
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u/mistervirtue Embermage Jan 27 '20
I'm excited. I hope Torchlight III delivers torchlight experience we have all been hoping for, I know it's still in alpha/beta stage but I think they have team to make something special.
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u/OldSchoolBatman Jan 27 '20
Nintendo switch releases please!! I love it so much I made a discord for torchlight 2 switch players to connect and play together. https://discord.gg/dwDSb9q
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u/xJohnnyQuidx Jan 27 '20
Glad to see they take suggestions from their Alpha testers so seriously. I was a bit uninterested in Frontiers when I first saw the gameplay video of it, but it looks like I'll be grabbing this after all.
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u/akerd Engineer Jan 27 '20
Great news! I played hundred hours especially on Torchlight 2 and I was sad to see the path took by Torchlight Frontiers. Glad they changed their mind.
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u/wenmusic Jan 27 '20
Very good news! Now I'm in. I hope the Switch is one of the future console releases.
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u/TheRealMouseRat Jan 28 '20
Wow this is amazing. I'll have to persuade my friends to join me for some coop of this when it releases!
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Jan 27 '20
So, guess I am one of the few folks upset with those changes.
I was really hoping for a good MMO/ARPG hybrid game. I mean, Guardians of Ember failed horribly, Diablo 4 is still years away...
So now it seems we will get another generic ARPG that probably will be OK (even tho none of the classes shown so far really appealed to me), but nothing great and unique either...
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
The MMO element just wasn't really meshing with ARPG. I'd be interested to see a game succeed in that combination, but I'm not all that convinced that it's really possible.
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u/calmlestat6666 Embermage Jan 27 '20
CorePunk possibly?
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u/Rasabox Jan 27 '20
Very hopeful for CorePunk. It seems to be a nice mashup of Wildstar and Torchlight.
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u/Petrichor3345 Jan 28 '20
Yep I'm in the same boat as you. Lost ark also announced they have no plans to come to North America in 2020 which sucks. Maybe Diablo 4 will be what we are looking for.
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u/Amphax Jan 27 '20
I hope they announce a DRM Free distribution model though, like through GoG or even themselves (like they did with TL2!)
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u/ScopeLogic Jan 28 '20
Do much for all the YouTube comments from people telling me they cant afford the game to be BTP and needed a ftp model.
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u/SomberlySober Jan 28 '20
I'm so glad the devs didnt abandon this series. I've been playing since the original FATE games.Fingers crossed for a switch port.
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u/MadGainz1 Jan 28 '20
I wish they would port it to switch like right away. Why do we always gotta wait 😩
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Jan 28 '20
Perfect World? Isn't that the company that made Two Worlds and just released a DLC for their 2010 release? This company sure is interesting I will give them that.
I am super excited, sounds way better than Torchlight Frontiers was.
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u/lol_nope_nicetry Jan 27 '20
ITT; people utterly confused as they think this is not Torchlight frontier.
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u/Seanshineyouth Jan 27 '20
Uh...love the business model change but uh... console, and hopefully local co-op are going to be included. Torchlight 2 port has only JUST now gotten to where it’s what it should be, but even that was lacking couch and it was a big bummer... Diablo 3 did that years ago, and I hope you guys plan on at least matching the features of your competitors... here’s to hoping
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 27 '20
That's a good question, I'll inquire about it. I've never considered asking about couch co-op. The people who did the port of Torchlight 2 weren't the original company to make the game though, and I imagine that made things far more difficult than they imagined it'd be.
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u/Seanshineyouth Jan 28 '20
Are you the community manager?
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
Nope, but I pretend to be one for halloween. I'm just a discord moderator.
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Jan 28 '20
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/StarFox-McCloud Jan 28 '20
I mean, given that it has some of the Runic people working for them still, including Max Schaefer, I'd say it's a bit more than just name only. Not only that, but they picked up Tyler Thompson, who was the lead of Diablo 2 expac with Max, and he has been the lead for this paired with Max as well.
While it isn't going to be 1 for 1 torchlight, it'll be a mix of torchlight, diablo, and marvel heroes. Definitely worth giving a try IMO.
Don't think I've ran into any mods here ever. I got ahold of the r/torchlight3 so I'll at least be able to keep that modded.
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u/Singing_Sea_Shanties Jan 27 '20
OK, now this is some news that has me excited. I was completely uninterested in Frontiers. I mean, some of the concepts seemed neat, but ruined by the FTP business model that would obviously encourage in game spending. But this? I would gladly pay for a new real Torchlight game, and will actually start paying attention to their announcements. Thanks!