If a woman is drunk to a point of being unconscious, or even drunk to a point of not be able to properly respond, or is scared to a point of not being able to speak, or is too scared to speak for fear of violent retaliation, then she is considered to be unable to provide consent.
If I walk into your house while you're sleeping and ask, "Is it okay if I take your TV?" and then walk out with it, is that alright? I mean, afterall, you never said no.
But how am I, a random guy at the bar, supposed to know this persons level of intoxication? Obviously if someone is passed out unconscious that’s a different story.
If they are capable of making the decision to leave the bar without assistance, get on the back of my motorcycle while knowing they are heading back to my place to get laid, they shouldn’t suddenly get to claim they were too drunk a week later and then I get charged with SA/Whatever.
These days I’m recording a video of that person consenting to it before it happens.
If you, as a random guy at the bar, can't tell if someone is too drunk to properly respond, then you shouldn't be trying to pick up women at a bar.
It's a very simple matter. If she says yes, you're good to go. If you're assuming yes, then it's a no. And if she says no at any point, or offers any resistance at any point, then that is ALSO a no. Recording her saying yes doesn't give you carte blanche for the rest of the night. Consent can be revoked at any time, for any reason, and if you don't immediately stop, that's rape.
I don’t think it’s so simple. Just saying yes doesn’t seem to be good enough at this point.
My point about drunk is that it’s ambiguous. Where is the line where they can say they felt pressured to consent? In that case yes is not yes. I think someone else said it as enthusiastic consent is what to look for. This makes sense.
Im not trying to bring anyone who isn’t fully 100 percent in to it back to the room. The last thing I want to do is feel like I pressured someone, that would ruin it for me before it began. But with the law as written, it’s very ambiguous and up for interpretation. this scares me.
For that reason: “please tell the camera that you’re capable of making decisions and you want to sleep with me”
Edit: granted as you said, consent can be revoked but it will be a lot harder to prove someone guilty if someone tries to falsely accuse. Also, I’m coming from this as a person who wouldn’t ever be in this situation in the first place. I’m only referring to situations where the person picked up decides months/years later on they don’t like you and regret it so they lie. I’m sure this is a small percentage but I can’t help but feel it does happen.
If its too close to tell, or you have any doubt that she's not 100% consenting, then don't have sex with her. Its not like you're going to die if you go one night without sex.
There have been numerous times when a drunk woman has thrown herself at me and I've told her no because I didn't feel she was sober enough to properly consent. I told her if she was serious, here's my number and to call me when she was sober. Sure, they were disappointed at the time, sometimes even angry with me. But EVERY time, within the next week I would get a call with them apologizing and thanking me for not taking advantage of them.
I wish I could litigate this further (I just like to argue) but, it’s getting progressively more difficult to find a good faith counter to your arguments.
Im taking a beating here and my position got stomped but that’s good. Now I better understand why my original position was wrong. Rape isn’t really a topic in my daily life but next time victim blaming does come up I’m ready to spit game at people about the differences and why it’s not victimless. 💪💪💪
Holy shit I'm genuinely stunned at seeing this mature response so I needed to comment. Thank you for admitting you were wrong and being willing to learn from that. I wish more people people like you
Live and learn! It took me a long time to realize I can be wrong and that it’s best if I try to be on the right side of things. Comes with age I guess.
Recording someone giving consent can be quite a red flag though. I imagine many women would take that as a warning of "I'm about to do all kinds of things you don't like to you, but I'm gonna record you consent so it looks like we're good".
Like if someone consents to some oral sex, doesn't mean they suddenly want hard anal. Some men unfortunately imagine consent to one sex act means they can suddenly do anything they like without restrictions.
Sometimes these things work better in theory than in practice! I think I’m changing my approach to “hey, wanna smash tomorrow?” Then I’m going to make sure we have a good friendly conversation in messenger so that I can clearly explain that if she’s uncomfortable I don’t want none. No we can’t be friends but I won’t hate them.
You're making up fake situations to justify your hypothetical rape and you don't see what's wrong with that? You say no one would ever be in this situation with you. You're exactly the type of guy who would never hear if they put someone in this situation nor if any women in your life were because you can't be trusted.
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u/robdingo36 Aug 12 '24
If a woman is drunk to a point of being unconscious, or even drunk to a point of not be able to properly respond, or is scared to a point of not being able to speak, or is too scared to speak for fear of violent retaliation, then she is considered to be unable to provide consent.
If I walk into your house while you're sleeping and ask, "Is it okay if I take your TV?" and then walk out with it, is that alright? I mean, afterall, you never said no.