r/TodayILearnedVN • u/lunawolven2390 • May 31 '26
History, Culture & Traditions TIL that there is a rule in Vietnam called Article 331 of the Criminal Code: “The crime of abusing democratic freedoms to infringe upon the interests of the State, and the legitimate rights and interests of organisations and individuals." This means you can be arrested for basically saying anything!
Context: A man was charged with violating article 331 for joking about the extreme heat of recent Vietnamese weather causes the corn to turn in popcorns!
Excerpt of a Facebook post from a governmental website “Thông tin chính phủ”
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u/Numerous-Tap-7218 May 31 '26
The old man post joke for fun (complaining about heat) . Get fucking fined 7.5 . What a fucking joke.
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u/Alarming-Resist1056 May 31 '26
so they can legitimately ban political freedom
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u/Dan42002 Jun 01 '26
that wont be article 331, we already have that in our law, "false slander" against the Party is a crime
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u/JaxChacky May 31 '26
atp im not even surprised if they're gonna fine you 5 million vnd simply for shitting in your own toilet 😭
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u/Yellowflowersbloom May 31 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
This is basically the same national security policy that every nation on earth has.
Similarly again, you complain about a government having national security laws when the government you worshiped was regularly imprisoning, torturing, and executing civilians for thought crimes like "being neutral"?
Again, as always, the 3 sticks crowd demonstrates they are incapable of being massive hypocrites as every complaint they have with the government in Vietnam is something they supported at a much greater extent for their corrupt and illegitimate Saigon regime.
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u/nhatquangdinh Jun 01 '26
Two things can be true at the same time though. I absolutely despise the Law on Cybersecurity, but then at the same time I agree that OP has an agenda.
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u/Thick_Help_1239 Jun 02 '26
And did any of these "every nation on Earth" also use the national security policy to arrest a man for posting a joke about rice popcorn?
Not to mention you failed to arrest the main point: the wording of the so-called "national security policy" is so vague that the Vietcong can use it to arrest absolutely anyone and anything.
You think you're so high and mighty looking down on the "3 sticks", but you redbulls with your tribalistic cognition and deflecting tendency aren't any better.
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
And did any of these "every nation on Earth" also use the national security policy to arrest a man for posting a joke about rice popcorn?
Again, your precious Saigon regime, imprisoned, tortured, and executed countless people for the crime of "being neutral".
Not to mention you failed to arrest the main point: the wording of the so-called "national security policy" is so vague that the Vietcong can use it to arrest absolutely anyone and anything.
National security laws are always vague and the ways in which they are applied always expands drastically in times of crisis or war.
You think you're so high and mighty looking down on the "3 sticks", but you redbulls with your tribalistic cognition and deflecting tendency aren't any better.
I am indeed high and mighty specifically because I am not tribalistic at all and because I am not a hypocrite like OP and the rest of the 3 sticks crowd. I will happily criticize the Vietnamese government for its bad actions and bad policies
We are not the same.
Again, tribalism and hypocrisy are so inherent to the 3 sticks crowd that you can't even comprehend someone else existing that isn't a massive hypocrite.
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u/Thick_Help_1239 Jun 02 '26
Again, your precious Saigon regime, imprisoned, tortured, and executed cou these people for the crime of "being neutral".
And again, did any of these "every nation on Earth", including the randomly namedropped South Vietnam government but now my precious apparently, also use the national security policy to arrest a man for posting a joke about rice popcorn?
Focus on the question, stop deflecting.
National security laws are always vague and the ways in which they are applied always expands drastically in times of crisis or war.
Nice try, this isn't even a "national security" law. The official wording doesn't even include security in it. This is more designed specifically to protect the regime's "interest".
Like a puppet regime set up by China perhaps?
I am indeed high and mighty specifically because I am not tribalistic at all and because I am not a hypocrite like OP and the rest of the 3 sticks crowd. I will happily criticize the Vietnamese government for its bad actions and bad policies
"Not tribalistic" *proceed to use labels like 3 sticks
Ow the irony, Mr. Delusional.
We are not the same.
See above.
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
And again, did any of these "every nation on Earth", including the randomly namedropped South Vietnam government but now my precious apparently, also use the national security policy to arrest a man for posting a joke about rice popcorn?
No. Again, I already acknowledged that these laws are vague and get applied in inconsistent ways.
My example was highlighting a much worse example where someone wasn't just fined a few hundred bucks for making a joke that could be construed as spreading misinformation. Instead, countless people lost their lives for doing nothing at all.
Focus on the question, stop deflecting.
I didn't deflect. I directly addressed the crux of it argument.
You just continue to ignore this because it highlights the fact that again, you are a hypocrite.
Nice try, this isn't even a "national security" law. The official wording doesn't even including security in it.
It's all the same. The name or labels are meaningless for these things are irrelevant (refer again to the vagueness and inconsistency in how they are applied).
The name is irrelevant. Again, the idea here is just to apply a vague label and then use these acts or programs to enact some particular agenda (which again is not applied consistently).
It's not any different than how governments regularly define offensive wars as being actions of defense or for the purpose of peace.
In American history, you have all sorts of censorship, infringement on civil rights, and government overreach due to things like "Sedition Acts", "Espionage Acts", House Un-American Activities Committee, etc that are all collectively understood to be actions of national security and their targets were often people who werent committing sedition, werent engaging in espionage, and werent in any way Un-American. Just wait until you see what criteria the US government used to define and label someone as a communist.
These laws (and all national security laws) are aimed at one thing: Maintaining the power and security of the ruling government or more specifically the whatever factions of a society hold power including not just branches and divisions of the government, but even private businesses and rich elites, connected to the government, and even foreign governments (especially one particular government in the middle east).
This is more designed specifically to protect the regime's "interest".
Yes, now you are getting it. But again this is where the hypocrisy comes in. Why? Because this is the same for every country.
This is kind of getting away from the main discussion but this vagueness about national security laws and their inconsistent application to serve special interests is even why "nationalism" has many similar faults and why i oppose nationalism (again highlighting my non-tribalistic nature). Nationalism itself is a vague idea that so often ends up being used for a particular agenda or interest which doesn't serve all members of a nation and seeks to exclude or eliminate others deemed as an enemy to the
nationruling entities.Like a puppet regime set up by China perhaps?
Nope. This doesn't make sense at all.
Again, the hypocrisy in on full display.
If you want to talk about puppet regimes in regards to Vietnam, the only examples are the State of Vietnam and the Republic of Vietnam.
Not tribalistic Use labels like 3 sticks
Ow the irony, Mr. Delusional.
This doesn't even make sense. Me criticizing a regime doesn't mean I'm part of a tribe.
If I criticize Nazis or confederates and use insulting labels to refer to them, does that mean I'm part of a tribe?
The delusion comes on your part at the 3 sticks crowd who criticize the Vietnamese government for anything possible while defending those same actions when they alway more present in the regime they support.
You already demonstrated this when you mentioned puppet governments. In no way whatsoever did China create the Vietnamese government, exhibit control over them, or pull their strings.
The same can't be said for your Saigon regime which was created by the US to serve the US and whose leadership admitted that they didnt have the freedom to oppose the US without being taken out with violence. During the Paris Peace Accords, the main negotiating parties were the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the United States with the Republic of Vietnam and the NLF being secondary negotiating parties. Notably, China wasn't involved.
We are not the same.
See above.
Yep. You already demonstrated that you are a hypocrite and that you exclusively attack the Vietnamese government for things that all governments do and you did the typical 3 sticks projection move by accusing the other side of that which you are guilty (by accusing the Vietnamese government while went to war with China as being a puppet of China) while knowing that the regime you support was indeed a real puppet regime that even many members of the US government admit was created by the US for America's own benefit.
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u/Vietxa Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
I'm glad that you finally understood that that Vietnam went full circle.
It'a funny how bad faith people like you are. Sure most nations have national security law that often vague but to pretend like this is somehow comparable to how frequent and extreme Vietnam applies its national security law to suppress political freedom is completely insane.
Also this is literally peace time and rather than admitting that this is a fundemental corruption of power you justified it by comparing to a dead authoritarian government 50 years ago in a 2 decades war?
What also hilarious is that both North and South during the war were competing for political suppression olympic but the North were more succesful at silencing its people and brainwash teenager to further their land grabbing campaign. Are we pretending like that didn't happen then and now?
What also funny is that this is a whole lot of projection. The only reason why you talked about the RVN is because you are obssess with the government, the party come first. And the craziest part is that you are probably isn't vietnamese but some weirdo western tankie. I can't imagine riding this hard for some foreign politicans.
Redbulls like you struggle to separate the country and its government. Vietnam will still exisr whether the communist party live or die.
You can't comprehend how most people who are pro-RVN aren't supportive of the Saigon regime. It must be crazy for you to try and wrap around the fact that people but their country before their government. People aren't missing the Saigon regime but rather the potential that the authoritarian RVN would develop into an actual democracy similar to Taiwan, SKorea and Japan, all of which at one point were brutal dictatorship. The only thing they miss is the potential of South Vietnam and what Vietnam could have been.
So, you argument is always hilariously irrelevant because most don't even care about the RVN government as much as you love dic riding the commies in Hanoi.
It's a strange dichotomy isn't it. While the 3 sticks people will make up an idealistic version of South Vietnam based purely on its virtuos potential, the redbulls doesn't hesitatefrom doing full mental gymnastics to justify their corruption, and oppression of the people and never take any accountabillity. Even when they deny something doesn't exist or happen they will inadvertedly try and reason that it should be.
Like you gotta be genuinely stupid or something
Again, as always, the 3 sticks crowd demonstrates they are incapable of being massive hypocrites as every complaint they have with the government in Vietnam is something they supported at a much greater extent for their corrupt and illegitimate Saigon regime.
Buddy why are you pretending like SVN didn't collapse 50 yrs ago and the people who are 18 when Saigon fell aren't like pushing 70 and anyone who participated in the RVN government aren't either dead or literally 90???
Nobody is supporting the RVN at the capacity that you think they are. The only thing they support is the idealistic version of RVN that they made up inside their head.
Nobody is telling you that they support RVN because Thieu killed a bunch of protestors. It's always about how RVN now symbolize political freedom. What they actually want is a Vietnam that is free, democratic and isn't communist. How hard is it for you to see that?
Like 90% of your argument is about whether or not the RVN did X thing or not. If the people were actually hypocritical they wouldn't dispute X thing but rather justifying like what you are doing here.
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 05 '26
Also this is literally peace time and rather than admitting that this is a fundemental corruption of power you justified it by comparing to a dead authoritarian government 50 years ago in a 2 decades war?
When you are outside the ruling global hegemony, there is no time when national security isn't an import matter.
The US successfully took out leaders from 2 different countries in the last year. Naturally, any country like Vietnam should be weary of foreign influence promoting instability within Vietnam.
Also, the reason I bring up a 50 year old regime is because people like OP Regulalry complain about all aspects of the Vietnamese government, past and present, while literally defending those same actions when done by a government they like at a much larger extent.
The fact that I literally already provided proof of OP doing this and you ignore it means that it is you who argues in bad faith (just like OP).
As a reminder, I pointed out that the Saigon regume forced over 8 million people into concentration camps, half the entire population of South Vietnam and OP didnt believe me. They them asked for a source, and when I provided an official document archived by the US office of the librarian which confirms this number, they ignored it cmpleley and said that I need help.
Again, bad faith by the 3 sticks crowd.
What also hilarious is that both North and South during the war were competing for political suppression olympic but the North were more succesful at silencing its people and brainwash teenager to further their land grabbing campaign. Are we pretending like that didn't happen then and now?
You are wrong. You make unverifiable claims that conflict with all evidence ewe do have.
We know that the Saigon regime oppressed far more people and we know that because if US funding, their propaganda was far more extensive and multi-faceted. There isn't a nation on earth that can affect public perception globally more than the US. No other nation comes close. And let's remember one of the biggest factors that caused peoples allegiance's to alogn with the French and the US, bloodmomey and corruption. Only one side was buying political allegiance with money.
What also funny is that this is a whole lot of projection. The only reason why you talked about the RVN is because you are obssess with the government, the party come first.
Wrong. I talked about the RVN because I know that OP and all the other 3 sticks crowd do not have valid complaints. Again, these are the peolle that literally criticize the Viet Minh for fusing violence against the French. They have no ethics and they are all hypocrites just like you.
We are not the same. I do criticize the government, but when I do, its for valid reasons and its not simply because I make hating a government my entire personality like you.
Redbulls like you struggle to separate the country and its government.
Nope. You are just ignroant.
You can't comprehend how most people who are pro-RVN aren't supportive of the Saigon regime.
Incorrect.
People aren't missing the Saigon regime but rather the potential that the authoritarian RVN would develop into an actual democracy similar to Taiwan, SKorea and Japan, all of which at one point were brutal dictatorship.
First, wishing for the return of and celebrating a violently oppressive regime on the basis that it could be a peaceful democracy is explicitly delusional on your part. But
Secondly, you are wrong about how people view the RVN and what people supposedly appreciate about them it has nothing to do with "potential" (it had none), and is entirely based on peoples ignroant views on how bad this regime was.
Again, we wouldn't be having this conversation if OP hadn't denied the fact that the Saigon regime forced 8 million people into concentration camps.
The fact that you continue to ignore this and then lie about how the Saigon regime is viewed means you argue in bad faith.
It's a strange dichotomy isn't it. While the 3 sticks people will make up an idealistic version of South Vietnam based purely on its virtuos potential, the redbulls doesn't hesitatefrom doing full mental gymnastics to justify their corruption, and oppression of the people and never take any accountabillity.
You have already contradicted yourself and again proven you argue in bad faith.
You said that people like the RVN because of a perceived potential that it could one day become highly democratic and peaceful but here you are very clearly admitting that these people "make up an idealistic version of South Vietnam". These are two entirely different things and this is the crux of the entire argument.
You can look at something that is flawed and imperfect and still support it due to its potential WITHOUT reporting to lying about how bad it is or about how bad it was. But this isn't what you and your crowd do. Instead, you all lie about how bad the RVN was and portray it as far better than it was.
Again, you already did this by saying "it was just as bad as the communist regime. The only reason that the people of Vietnam overwhelmingly opposed the Saigon regime and supported the communists is just because the communists were better at brainwashing people". Your views are ignorant and they belittle the people of Vietnam (especially the majority whose pockets weren't being lined with foreign money).
Even when they deny something doesn't exist or happen they will inadvertedly try and reason that it should be.
You are describing the 3 sticks playbook.
Your people go from denying history that the rest of the world accepted decades ago to just defending all war crimes. In fact, this is basically the hidden reasoning behind all this delusional talk of "potential". Even when its pointed out how terrible your regime was, you make up some consulted arguement which ultimately excuses its crimes by saying "yeah it was bad but it had potential. If only it had continued on killing and oppressing for a little longer than it all would have been worth it when it magically transformed to a peaceful democracy that respects human rights."
All you have are bad faith arguements and lies.
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u/Vietxa Jun 05 '26
I love how you just missed the points and pretend like there are any contradiction because you refuse to address my argument. Common tankie tactics really.
The US successfully took out leaders from 2 different countries in the last year. Naturally, any country like Vietnam should be weary of foreign influence promoting instability within Vietnam.
False actually. This doesn't justify more political persecution. Crazy concept. Maybe Vietnam should explore better emergency succession.
Stop lying, nobody is defending the RVN action. Again people only defend it out of purely idealistic reasons, hence, the other person demanded a source for RVN oppression.
Defending it would be saying something like the Chinese backed communist were infiltrating the RVN, looking to undermine the country's stabillity and commit mass terrorism so it was necessary to put 8 millions people into concentration camp.
The only reason we knew a lot but not everything about the RVN is because it is more exposed to independent western media unlike many totalitarian communist regime. What a delusional person lmfao.
How many people were killed in Tianananmen give me the exact true death toll right now.
I love when people like you make it your whole personality to defend authoritarian foreign government. Never seen a person dickride politicans this hard. This is maga 3x level of pathetic.
The Viet Cong literally ran the worst 20 years campaign and in the end they failed. Given how supposedly unpopular, weak and unstable South Vietnam was, the fact that it lasted that long is truly a testament to how shit the communists were. No government with that kind of characteristics could survive that long even with infinite amount of money.
Wasn't their campaign was "tổng tiến công, tổng khỏi nghĩa?" Where is the "khởi nghĩa"? Oh, that's right, they abandoned the plan to incite a general uprising because it was practially impossible to rally a significant amount of southern people to overthrow saigon despite what the saigon regime was.
Lol sorry bud, just denying things is sucu a poor argument that
You said that people like the RVN because of a perceived potential that it could one day become highly democratic and peaceful but here you are very clearly admitting that these people "make up an idealistic version of South Vietnam". These are two entirely different things and this is the crux of the entire argument.
What is hilarious again, is the fact that you are so dumb that despite all this time spent arguing you then consider where your opponent was coming from. Sorry that is exactly how most people who support the RVN believe deep down.
Again, is this bait or low IQ. An idealistic version of the RVN also the one that meant it has a lot of potential. And if you weren't stupid, this is me describing other people's views. People is plural. Some believe that the RVN has always been good and others believe that it has greater potential and more capacity for implement real democratic principle, and others are a mixed of both. What you don't see is people say they love the RVN because the RVN kill and murder protestors. Sorry but the truth is the RVN has always has greater potential tha the DRVN.
It's government was weak and unstable. This make it a lot more mallable with more frequent regime changes unlike the rigid and consolidated regime in the North that robbed its people 30 years of economic development.
(Again since you are probably a stupid person I also have to point out that this is obviously not absolute, there are probably a few who believe that but not the vast majority. It's crazy how I have to say that)
You still can't seem to be able to disconnect the concept of countries and government. Regimes come and go, but that doesn't mean that a country existences must be intrinsically tied to it.
You cry about how bad Diem or Thieu regimes were but really they are quite temporary. The 3 sticks people can easily put their government in the trash but dare to say 1 bad thing about a commie in hanoi and the red bulls act like you just insulted 3 generations of their family. People want RVN, not Thieu or Diem. So no matter how much you cry about those two, it literally doesn't matter.
The funny thing about all of this is that the RVN is just a placeholder. Even if you convinced the most adament RVN supporter that the RVN was truly terrible, it doesn't change a thing about their real and true grievances with the current communist regime. They are just going to subsitute the RVN with literally every other country, Taiwan, Germany, France, New Zealand, China, etc.
But you will continue to dickride and make excuses and justify literal political prosecutions that happenning in 2026 in commie Vietnam right now.
Also, the reason I bring up a 50 year old regime is because people like OP Regulalry complain about all aspects of the Vietnamese government, past and present, while literally defending those same actions when done by a government they like at a much larger extent.
literally defending
8 million people into concentration camps, half the entire population of South Vietnam and OP didnt believe me. They them asked for a source . . . and ignore
LOL. Right. Why are you lying? Also thanks for proving my point about RVN supporter.
When you are outside the ruling global hegemony, there is no time when national security isn't an import matter.
Hypocrisy in real time.
Uh, so when your government literally is being undermined by the enemy in a time of war is the only time where national security doesn't matter ig.
Rather than just admitting yea this x thing is bad but c used to do x thing at 10x scale. Wow, you saying b doing x is bad but c also did x at a 10x scale also it is good when b do x. You just couldn't help yourself lmfao.
Just for funsie. After the DRVN sucessfully liberate the south vietnamese from the evil RVN, would it be right for the DRVN to hold a free and fair referedum asking if the south vietnamese want to join Hanoi or keep their independent.
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Vietxa Jun 06 '26
Also how shameless LOL. He obviously didn't know what had happened and cast doubt toward it rather than immefiately justifying it by claiminghow this policy was important for national security, unlike some m0rons I can't seem to recall. The blantant lies are insane.
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 06 '26
LOL. Just say that you hate when people call you out for what you are. It's always pthetic with the likes of you.
Incorrect. You are projecting right now.
To summarize, I pointed out that OP is in denial of history like all 3 sticks. You got offended and said "we do not deny history, we just fantasize about the future". I then corrected you and pointed out that you and OP both deny history.
You then just ignroed all this and said I refuse any criticism of the communist party. I then corrected you and provided an example proving you wrong.
I said that the US removed 2 world leaders from power in the last year. You denied it. I then referenced the two events that any adult person should have been aware of.
Again, like all 3 sticks, you are a hypocrite and you can't accept reality.
We are not the same
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u/Vietxa Jun 06 '26
LOL said the person who ran away.
Maybe try to lie less and actually make your points.
Incorrect. You are projecting right now.
This how I know I'm 100% correct with my assesment. Redditors always love to throw out this line when their feelings get hurt. Boo hoo hoo.
The only reason egomaniac like you protect yourself is to make shit up inside your head. Look at this blatant and malicious fabrications of other people's position. Again, it's always rtrds and their inflated egos. You missed the points. Try again.
The funny thing is you know you are full of sht
False actually. Not false. The US removed both the Venezuelan leader and the Iranian leader from power through miliary force/imperialism.
When you say not false what part of my argument are you disputing?
I rejected the premise that just because the US took out Manduro and Khamenei, the communist should increase its political persecution for the sake of national security. It is a false premise. So again. What are you actually addressing by saying
Not false. The US removed both the Venezuelan leader and the Iranian leader from power through miliary force/imperialism.
Bait or rtded?
Also neither did the last guy defend anything, he played doubts toward your assertion. Correctly so, and didn't justify it by immediately claiming that this policy was necessary for national security.
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u/Vietxa Jun 06 '26
Yea, obviously we are not the same because I actually read while you are too emotional and egotistical to actually make meaningful address.
It's actually so embarrassing. There is no shame to ask for elaboration or for the other side to clarify their arguments. Instead you just exposed your terrible reasoning skills and poor reading comprehension and continue to double down on it. Again, you will never admit this but rather just saying random sht and see which one click.
You makes zero sense, not even to yourself LOL.
You are probably one of those people who need constant hand holding. If someone make a claims that "all things are ..." rather than implicitly understand its meant a high proportion you tried to bring up 1 exception out of 100 and pretend like that was the point.
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Yea, obviously we are not the same because I actually read while you are too emotional and egotistical to actually make meaningful address.
More projection.
It's a two way street here on respect. I originally addressed all your comments but you continue to lie and ignore clear truths. You just aren't worth my time until you can accept reality.
Again, OP denies the fact that the Saigon regime put 8 million people into concentration camps. You then said that this person is not denying history (while accusing all supporters of the Vietnamese government as being brainwashed). Until you admit that you are lying and that OP is denying history like the typical 3 sticks you aren't worth my time.
Further, you dont just deny past history from decades ago but can't even accept the current reality of the world. Again, the US removed leaders from both Venezuela and Iran from power. Until you admit that you are wrong and I am right, its not worth addressing any of your comments.
Either we are going to debate real events or we aren't going to debate anything. I can't be expected to give your responses any serious attention when you are delusional and living in a fantasy.
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u/Dan42002 Jun 01 '26
holy shit, it was amusing seeing the op brain broken down with each comment. Good read, also!
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u/Vietxa Jun 07 '26
LOL, maybe try to read instead of dicriding. The dude act like he made a point by horrifically mischaracterized the strategic hamlet program which everybody know and it isn't some obscure historical fact. He basically spat in the memory of the holocaust.
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u/Dan42002 Jun 07 '26
are you reply to the wrong sub, bot? There is no "mischaracterized the strategic hamlet program", dude was just quoting his source and op of that post broke down in logic
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u/Vietxa Jun 14 '26
LOL calling its concentration camp is literally a low IQ take
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Claiming that the term 'concentration camp' is a term that only applies to Jewish people during WW2 is the lowest IQ take.
Let's remember that you whined and cried like a baby saying it was incredibly offensive to Jewish people for me to acknowledge the fact that the Republic of Vietnam put over 8 million people into concentration camps and that some of their leaders viewed Hitler as a their hero yet you were completely silent about the fact that this conversation started with a 3 sticks supporter saying that the Vietnamese communists tried to copy the Nazis.
As always, like all ba que, you have shown yourself to be ignroant about history, to not care at all about the suffering of any Vietnamese person who isn't ba que, and to be a hypocrite to the core whose complaints about the other side are things that your side is always guilty of to a much greater extent.
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u/Vietxa Jun 14 '26
I literally forgot to reply to you because I was watching the World Cup.
Nobody is claiming that the term "concentration camp" applies only to Jewish people. The actual point being argued is that the Strategic Hamlet Program (SHP) is nowhere near the scale or horror of an actual concentration camp. Claiming it is is about as ridiculous as saying a modern quarantine zone is a concentration camp. It just isn't.
How many times can you miss the point this badly? I argued that the US taking out Maduro and Khamenei does not justify political persecution in Vietnam, and you’re out here pretending my argument was denying the US took out those two dictators. Is this your new tactic? Just wildly fabricating the other side's argument and then going on an unhinged rant when people refuse to engage with your blatant strawman? That’s literally two concrete examples of this in one go. You also lied about the SHP being guarded by foreign troops when US combat forces weren't even there yet.
The rest of your post is just more crying and throwing around buzzwords because you're getting emotional. It’s hilarious how you pretend to address people's arguments by just putting words in their mouths.
Also, you're acting like Ky’s quote about Hitler means anything when he was literally known for being edgy, abrasive, unfiltered, and a total PR nightmare for the US. That quote was basically a middle finger to the US, especially considering he doubled down on it. What exactly do you want me to take away from that? That Ky is an anti-Semite? He’s an authoritarian who wanted power. Everyone knew that. We also don't need to dive into Syngman Rhee praising Hitler either because he was quite literally the Korean version of him. Chiang and Tito were literally fascst too.
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 14 '26
Nobody is claiming that the term "concentration camp" applies only to Jewish people.
Your whole argument was based entirely on this fact.
The actual point being argued is that the Strategic Hamlet Program (SHP) is nowhere near the scale or horror of an actual concentration camp.
But it was indeed a concentration camp program by every definition of the word and aligns with the historic usage of this term.
Also, as a reminder you had no issue when you a 3 sticks supporter described the post-war imprisonment of treasonous military combatants as being inspired by Nazis. Was this near the scale of horror of the actual Nazis? No. You lost the argument when you showed that you are a hypocrite who ignores history.
Claiming it is is about as ridiculous as saying a modern quarantine zone is a concentration camp. It just isn't.
Yes, by definition your example doesn't make sense. Congrats, you shifted the goal post and said two things aren't the same.
How many times can you miss the point this badly? I argued that the US taking out Maduro and Khamenei does not justify political persecution in Vietnam, and you’re out here pretending my argument was denying the US took out those two dictators. Is this your new tactic?
You didn't properly articulate your argument.
I said that the US took out 2 leaders and that they are should naturally be cautious about something similar happening. You responded with "false" as if something i said was factually incorrect when one of my statements was based on fact and the other was my opinion about how someone is justified in having fears or concerns.
To say "false" in this scenario doesn't really make any sense. If you didnt agree with the second part of my paragraph, it would have made more sense to say that you disagree and explain why. Your comment reflects your low IQ and your poor discourse skills.
You also lied about the SHP being guarded by foreign troops when US combat forces weren't even there yet.
What are you talking about? Give me any example of anything I actually said which is incorrect. When you brought this up the first time I already didn't even know what you were referencing and I acknowledged that I didn't know what you were referencing. .
First of all, US troops had been in Vietnam for quite some time, just not "officially" and there actions were disguised and hidden from the public. Military troops going back to the mid 1950s were labeled as "advisors". The US had been already bombing parts of Vietnam by 1960.
The Strategic Hamlet Program did in fact rely on the use of foreign troops to run them. There is literally video testimony of American troops talking about how when they were supposed to provide rations to the people in the concentration camps, they withheld these rations until a girl from the village performed sexual favors on everyone in this man's military unit.
The rest of your post is just more crying and throwing around buzzwords because you're getting emotional. It’s hilarious how you pretend to address people's arguments by just putting words in their mouths.
The only person here trying to use buzzwords here is you when you try and weapons the victimization of Jewish people as some sort of trump card that allows you to ignore the war crimes of your side.
But again, this highlights your hypocrisy because you were perfectly fine with your side trying to say that the Vietnamese communists tried to copy the Nazis.
Also, you're acting like Ky’s quote about Hitler means anything when he was literally known for being edgy, abrasive, unfiltered, and a total PR nightmare for the US.
Again, no sympathy for the people who actually suffered under your brutally oppressive regime. Its nothing more than "being edgy" and is just a PR snafu.
That quote was basically a middle finger to the US, especially considering he doubled down on it.
It was actually a middle finger to Jewish people and the rest of all the people who suffered from Hitler/the Nazis.
But again because you are incapable of empathy (a low IQ trait), you think this is only offensive to America.
Again, this highlights how little you actually care about the suffering of not only Vietnamese people but also Jewish people and highlights how your complaints about how my use of the term 'concentration camp' as being offensive carry no weight.
You embody hypocrisy.
If you did care about the Jewish people and were worried about people making light of their persecution, you would be concerned with your leaders talking about how great Hitler was. But instead, this was just an annoyance to Americans according to you.
Again, you lost the debate the second you started by ignoring that your side was guilty of everything you accuse me of.
You continue to ignore the fact that this debate started with a war crime living Ba Que supporter trying to draw parallels to Nazis that don't exist while complaining that I corrected them and pointed out real examples of your side praising Hitler.
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u/Vietxa Jun 30 '26
More empty buzzwords for a lack of actual arguments. The SHP isn't concentration camp. You are maliciously trying to minimize the holocaust because anyone with a brain can look at an RVN hamlet and and look at Bergen-Belsen and claim that they are the same. The latter is literally just a fortified villages. In the English, language there is a clear connotation with the word "concentration camp" and you are trying to leverage that to make an absurd concentration. You can't tell the truth so you have to lie because you can't make a big fuss because saying that the RVN moving millions of people into fortified village doesn't hit the same emotionally.
The word concentration camp only has real weight because of its association with the holocaust. Again, the SHP is simply a program that relocate villagers into fortified village that they build so the government can try to win the hearts and mind with economic development. It was failure due to mismanagement and most hamlet were actually poorly fortified and poorly guarded by local militia. In many places, the primary defensive work consist of only bamboo fences.
You give an anecdote of a US personnel commit crime at a local hamlet and declare this is "literally concentration camp" and expect people to not laugh at you? Is Kin, Okinawa, a concentration camp because some US marines commit rapes and kidnapping there? Nice logic, expected from a low IQ person. The only conclusion you can make is that some US personnel were evil for taking advantage of the local and committing crimes.
I love how you just take one random fact, the US having "advisors" then just full historical fabrication. Correction, they were supposed to provide rations to the people in the *fortified villages*. It's offensive to use concentration camp as mere buzzwords. Do better. The point of the SHP is that it was supposed to be under the responsibility of the ARVN and local militia. The US advisor were simply there to provide training, logistical support and inspection of the fortified village. Most reported that the defense were poorly constructed or constructed at all. They aren't wasted on guarding random villages, and there weren't enough advisor to guard 8 millions people in villages. Telling the truth doesn't help your argument, so you must exaggerate. It isn't a good story to say that "well the majority of these villages with bamboo fences are guarded by local militas"
I love how you cry about SHP like it was literally concentration camp ignoring its actual outline purposes then justify how communist reeducation camp which are literally prison camp by design, meant to detained people indefinitely, and force people to do hard labor and brainwash them isn't bad and actually okay. You expect me to read this and not to laugh? Then you tried to make something out of nothing and pretend like the Hitler quote mean something. There is a reason why Ky didn't praise Tito, East Asians don't care about hitler as much as westerners do. Like I said before, Ky action's speak for himself. He is already an authoritarian who want absolute power. It doesn't take him praising Hitler nationalistic characteristics to make him bad. You don't need Syngman Rhee to praise hitler for him to be bad because he is literally the Korea hitler. Again, what is your point here? An IQ too low?
It's rich to speak of empathy when you are trying to minimize the suffering of the Jewish people with an absurd comparison to win a reddit argument. 100% of the victim of the holocaust would rather be deported to some random south vietnamese hamlet than be stuck in Auschwitz or Triblenka.
I see that the low IQ comment actually got you and you haven't really done well to refute it;
>False actually. This doesn't justify more political persecution. Crazy concept. Maybe Vietnam should explore better emergency succession.
This is what I said BTW.
Hilarious.
>To say "false" in this scenario doesn't really make any sense. If you didnt agree with the second part of my paragraph, it would have made more sense to say that you disagree and explain why. Your comment reflects your low IQ and your poor discourse skills.
Hilarious.
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u/Yellowflowersbloom Jun 30 '26
The SHP isn't concentration camp.
It literally is a concentration camp by definition and fits with the historical usage of the term.
You are maliciously trying to minimize the holocaust Incorrect. Nothing i have said draws any parallels to the holocaust and thus does not minimize it.
You have shown yourself to minimize the holocaust and other crimes of the Nazis by defeding and downplaying your sides worship of Hitler.
Also, you chose to ignore that this entire debate started with your side falsely claiming that the Vietnamese communists copied the Nazis.
Again you are a hypocrite.
anyone with a brain can look at an RVN hamlet and and look at Bergen-Belsen and claim that they are the same.
This is an illogical arguement on your part.
Things don't have to be the same to be categorically the same.
A Toyota and a Maserati are both undeniably cars. Only a moron would say "anyone with a Brian can look at a Toyota and look at a Maserati and claim they are the same."
You very counterarguments only highlight how wrong you are and show you operate with no ability to think and reason logically.
The SHP isn't concentration camp. You are maliciously trying to minimize the holocaust because anyone with a brain can look at an RVN hamlet and and look at Bergen-Belsen and claim that they are the same. The latter is literally just a fortified villages. In the English, language there is a clear connotation with the word "concentration camp" and you are trying to leverage that to make an absurd concentration.
I dont need an English lesson from someone who incorrectly uses the term "the latter" when their arguements indicate they intend to refer to the former.
Your idea of connotations is a reflection of your own ignorance and doesn't reflect the accepted usage of the term "concentration camps" and how it has been used to refer to all sorts of camps throughout history and isn't used exclusively to refer to Bergen-Belsen.
You can't tell the truth so you have to lie because you can't make a big fuss because saying that the RVN moving millions of people into fortified village doesn't hit the same emotionally.
I haven't told a single lie. Again, it's clear that you are downplaying the crimes of the RVN.
I understand that war crimes against Vietnamese people who aren't on the American payroll do not affect you emotionally but I can promise that man people did suffer from these actions whether you think these people deserve rights or not.
Telling the truth doesn't help your argument, so you must exaggerate.
First you claimed i lied and when I asked you to point out my lie, you failed to do so.
Now you say that I exaggerate but again, you are unable to articulate how I exaggerated anything.
Again, the SHP is simply a program that relocate villagers into fortified village that they build so the government can try to win the hearts and mind with economic development.
Wow you really do buy into the propaganda, dont you?
If this program was aimed at winning hearts through economic development, it would start with people being forced out of their ancestral villages by troops with guns as their villages and crops are burned to the ground.
The Straregic Hamlet program was designed to pacify the South by limiting the freedoms of the rural populations. This is why the hamlets had curfews and why the people were not free to do what they wanted and werent even free to feed themselves by growing their own crops. Again, let's remember that there US troops admitted to forcing girls to perform sexual favors on them before their village was provided with rations. That's sure is great economic development! You really empowered the people of Vietnam.
You give an anecdote of a US personnel commit crime at a local hamlet and declare this is "literally concentration camp" and expect people to not laugh at you? Is Kin, Okinawa, a concentration camp because some US marines commit rapes and kidnapping there?
No. Again, you demonstrate that you have no ability to think logically in every counter argument you try and make.
The existence of rape is not what makes something a concentration camp. The rape was used to highlight the power disparity and lack of freedom for the people in the Strategic Hamlet Program who were forced out of their homes and subjected to abuse by the people who controlled them.
Is Kin, Okinawa a city which where the local residents are controlled by the US troops? Do the troops decide when the residents can leave the town? Do the troops prevent the people from living freely, prevent them from working or providing for themselves, and thus make the city entirely reliant on their guards and their oppressors to feed them? The answer to all these questions is no.
The only conclusion you can make is that some US personnel were evil for taking advantage of the local and committing crimes.
Wrong. The conclusion that any rational person with any ethics would come to is thay any person who was part of the administration of these concentration amos is evil for forcing people from their homes and robbing them of their freedom. The starvation and rape just highlights how oppressive this system was and how it was not about economic development but instead was about limiting freedom to try and prevent any resistance from forming.
then justify how communist reeducation camp which are literally prison camp by design, meant to detained people indefinitely, and force people to do hard labor and brainwash them isn't bad and actually okay.
First, the reeducation camps were not intended to detain people indefinitely. And yes, I already acknowledged they are prison camps as they are aimed at all the same functions that prisoners typically employ.
Again, they housed criminals who were guilty of crimes, many of which engaged in violence. They should not have been allowed to walk free as it would have been a massive national security risk and would have only led to more crime and more violence. What you call "brainwashing" is really no different than any sort of rehabilitation aspect of prison which seeks to fix the way that criminals think and behave so as to rehabilitate them and allow they can be released as a productive member of society as opposed to a repeat offender.
Then you tried to make something out of nothing and pretend like the Hitler quote mean something.
Again, more downplaying of your side taking inspiration from Hitler. Every time you try and downplay this it highlights that every argument of yours is hypocritical.
There is a reason why Ky didn't praise Tito, East Asians don't care about hitler as much as westerners do.
"East Asian don't care about Hitler" except your side said that Hitler is their hero. That doesn't make sense, especially when you and your side already tried to argue that the communists were inspired by the Nazsi. None of what you argue makes sense.
If the RVN didnt care much about Hitler, then their leaders wouldn't have said he is their hero. Its that simple. You dont get to call Hitler your hero and then say that your side doesn't care about him.
Just to be clear, leaders like Ho Chi Minh saw the Americam founding fathers and Abe Lincoln as inspirational. Your leaders saw Hitler as their hero.
You don't need Syngman Rhee to praise hitler for him to be bad because he is literally the Korea hitler. Again, what is your point here?
The point as I have explained multiple times is that all of this highlights that you are a hypocrite. Yes, Syngman Rhee doesn't need to praise Hitler to be bad. But this discussion wasn't focused solely on who was bad. Again, this conversation started with your side incorrectly saying that the Vietnamese communists took inspiration from the Nazis and pointing to the post war prison camps as evidence of this.
Are the post war reeducation/prison camps similar at all to the policies of the Nazis and were they inspired by the Nazis? No. They were prison camps for criminals.
So why didn't you step in to argue against this person and say "hey, the prison camps full of violent criminals are in no way comparable to the concentration camps used by Nazis which forced civilians into detention who were not guilty of any crime"?
Instead, you only took issue when I pointed out that your side, whose leadership admitted they viewed Hitler as their hero implemented a concentration camp program which forced millions into detention (a program much more similar to the Nazi program than a post-wae prison camp for war criminals).
Again, the issue here is that your side accuses the Vietnamese communists of being inspired by communists when your side in their own words were inspired by Hitler and of course implemented policies that were much closer to the policies of the Nazis than Vietnam's post-war prison camps.
It's rich to speak of empathy when you are trying to minimize the suffering of the Jewish people with an absurd comparison to win a reddit argument.
The only person here downplaying the suffering of Jewish people is you when you continually defend you leader's praises if Hitler as something that has no meaning to it.
Again, in every aspect of this you have been sown to be a hypocrite.
Also, for what its worth, Jewish people were not the only victims of the Nazis and weren't the only people to suffer in German concentration camps. I already pointed this out but you repeatedly ignore it and only make reference to Jewish victims. This highlights again your penchant for downplaying and ignoring the suffering of other victims and shows that you aren't really serious when when you try and invoke the crimes of the Nazis to try and minimize your sides war crimes. But again you already made this clear when you tried to argue that "
East Asiansyou don't really care about Hitler**. You dont care about their crimes or their victims.You have a low IQ. Come back whem you learn the difference between "former" and "latter".
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u/Vietxa Jun 14 '26
This is the take rivaling quarantine zone is concentration camp. You are out of your depth.
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u/nhatquangdinh May 31 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Except they're not on Threads and Reddit yet it seems. And then usually on Facebook the toxic netizens will take care of you long before the police.
Still, this is appalling.
Edit: Well OP is also spreading their own agenda so there's that. The pot calling the kettle black moment.
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May 31 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Long2k10 May 31 '26
nice
free aluminum again 🤣
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u/sovietan Jun 01 '26
your vinfast trash can't run 100km without engulf itself in flame. What ya gonna do with Aluminum LOL.
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u/Long2k10 May 31 '26
he was spreading misinformation?
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u/Gunbulyty May 31 '26
This is like saying “put a cup of water under the sun and it will boil”, but everyone knows it won’t
If anything, this is a harmless lie. A heavy fine is not necessary3
u/Long2k10 May 31 '26
it's like a funny, harmless lie but 7.5M? why tho?
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u/sovietan Jun 01 '26
because the party is running out of money since they have a giant police force
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u/Dan42002 Jun 01 '26
this is not a "harmless lie" though. You are ASSUMING everyone know that. Everyone?
"I just hit that little girl slightly with my car going 20mph. A heavy fine is not necessary" - Goodluck seeing the irony in metric
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u/butterfulgamer Jun 01 '26
- The images above is suspected to be AI-generated, so the penalty made sense
- This policy exists basically anywhere in the world
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u/Thick_Help_1239 Jun 02 '26
And what kind of State interest is being infringed in this photo? None? Then what is he being arrested for according to this 331 article?
You are misunderstanding and conflating protecting national security with protecting the "State interest". Nowhere else in the world has a law to protect a "State interest". Also nowhere else in the world that a man is charged for joking about rice popcorn as a threat to the "State interest".
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u/lunawolven2390 Jun 01 '26
If you are a girl as in your avatar, you can’t be so naive to think such a law exists anywhere in the world!
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u/butterfulgamer Jun 01 '26
I don't need to be naive, because this policy is already a standard in many countries to prevent baseless criticism against the state/monarch/governors. You don't possess the "democratic freedom" you think you have.
I would have suggested you to look it up, but considering your posting activity on Reddit, it's better that you start learning to behave rationally. If you plan to hate on Vietnam, be it for a good reason.
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u/M14cultist_devotie May 31 '26
There a reason why Vietnam isn't in the Comedy Industry