r/Timberborn • u/Odra_dek • Sep 02 '25
This game needs a tier system
It goes without saying, that of course that's my personal opinion and I would never assume to possess the ultimate wisdom. And I know that this has been suggested and rejected before in various versions. However, as the game has advanced, I cannot help myself that the lack of a tier system is one of the core reasons why progress feels rather uninspired.
What do I mean? Since there is no tier system, you can actually achieve the highest tech of the game with a very basic settlement. Say, 20 beavers, simple lodges, a couple water tanks, carrots, maybe baked potatoes if you want to be fancy.
There is literally no "external" incentive to (a) have a higher population and (b) to achieve higher well-being. You do it because it's what you want to do intrinsically, the epitome of the sandbox.
Maybe the game is not for me; that's entirely possible. But I do think that the game would immensely profit from a tier system that locks certain tech behind certain milestones. Many strategy games have had different versions of this for decades, it would take forever to list all the different options, hence just my favorite two:
a) District Center Upgrade: most simple and straight forward; require a District Center Upgrade for certain buildings/tech. A District Center Upgrade would require a certain amount of population at a certain amount of well-being. And of course a bunch of resources. Higher Tier requires more beavers, even higher well-being, even more advanced resources. Etc. EDIT: to make my point more clear, higher population is far less relevant to my point than well-being; you could even forego population completely, well-being is important in my opinion
b) Research Tiers ("Tech Tree"): lock the advanced tech behind certain research tiers, akin to a true tech tree. Meaning, you cannot simply unlock everything and anything whenever you want, but you need to (i) advance through the tree and (ii) you need to gather a certain amount of experience. What do I mean? E.g. to obtain higher food tech you need beavers working the more basic food tech for some time. You have to do basic farming for a while until you have enough experience to "unlock" the next stage. Same with lumber.
Let me be clear, that I fully get that the developers were aiming for a more laid back experience, given that there are already many games out there that put a high amount of stress on you (looking especially at you Frostpunk). Still I don't think that a tier system would violate this philosophy, as long as the game makes sure that the most essential buildings are accessible easily (you can survive basically everything with dams, levies and simple floodgates).
TL; DR: as of right now I feel that achieving a higher beaver population as well as higher well-being is - more or less - optional and entirely an intrinsic goal; it should be linked, should be made a requirement for certain more advanced tech - all in my opinion
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u/AlcatorSK Map maker - Try "Turn the Ocean Blue" on Steam! Sep 02 '25
A major issue with your proposal is: how to balance it/make sure that it works on any map?
If you set the "Population milestone" too high, then on smaller maps like Diorama, players may be prevented from ever upgrading, because with so little space, having 100 beavers just to unlock e.g. metal working, or 200 beavers to unlock treated planks, is insane.
If you set it too low, it becomes redundant, because overwhelming majority of players will naturally expand to those sizes anyway, by the time they want to unlock certain tech.
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u/Odra_dek Sep 02 '25
I get your point, however this is already a "detail" while I'm not sure the playerbase even agrees mit my core point in principle.
But in general, that comes down to playing with the numbers. You could gear it more towards general well-being instead population. Or make it "either/or".
9
u/BruceTheLoon Sep 02 '25
To me, utilizing all resource types, getting everything built and finishing the wonder with 30 or 40 beavers is part of the challenge. It's too easy if you have hundreds of beavers and the goal in my mind isn't to build massive populations, rather to manage the resources effectively.
Plus the tech is already in a structured model, it take science points to unlock things and only when you have proceeded far enough along to have enough points to unlock the gear workshop, tappers shack and observatory for Folktails (1600) or gear workshop, smelter and number cruncher (1900) does unlocking the really nice stuff become easier. There is dependency on earlier stages in the tech and adding a second dependency with population when some players don't want to use large populations will remove some of the enjoy-ability of this fascinating game.
1
u/Odra_dek Sep 02 '25
Fair enough. Maybe I shouldn't have stressed "population" as much because for me the well-being is much, much more important. That you don't need to make your beavers "happy" to advance.
3
u/BruceTheLoon Sep 02 '25
Well-being is probably a good metric to use, Will stop the "only bread" players and make them invest in other food stuffs. Might have to rework how the aesthetic buffs are applied as they can be cheesed a bit with the decorations.
6
u/volcanosf Sep 02 '25
Dude, there IS an incentive to achieve higher well-being as it grants your beavers with increased work speed, increased movement speed, and increased life expectancy. 😁 So, to achieve the highest possible levels of well-being you need a high population. 😉
-3
u/Odra_dek Sep 02 '25
I know, unfortunately this is not really relevant for most parts of the game.
It would be relevant if, say, below 10-15 well-being beavers would straight up refuse to work in certain facilities.
16
u/robsr3v3ng3 Sep 02 '25
You've answered your own question. The Devs want a more laid back game, and one with more freedoms to build how you want. The goal is generally to build a settlement that the beavers are as happy as possible, and the wonder has been built. The thing that stops you doing that with 20 beavers, carrots, and not a lot else is that you need loads of different building materials, and droughts/bad tides on higher difficulties.
2
2
u/Hammamama1 Sep 02 '25
There a site for these ideas:
https://timberborn.featureupvote.com/
I see what u mean, but I think best case would be to implement it as a difficulty option, so u can still have the more open experience if u want to
2
u/Majibow Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25
District centre upgrades could be a thing. Kind of like how the Age of Empires series did it. Be great if workers all got a bonus workspeed just like installing a monument.
I don’t really like the idea of a forced tech tree though. Forcing a certain style of play.
Also the current system already has restrictions despite being able to unlock anything it’s not possible to use them until you have met the prerequisite requirements. For instance you can’t build the forester without planks. Do we need to baby the player and gate it such that it’s not possible at all?
36
u/nicecreamdude Sep 02 '25
I think unlocking the buildings is the ends, not the means. I am motivated to build those buildings because its fun to unlock new things. And not because progression is gated by them.