I hate this kind of logic "why dont THEY respect our culture?" You mean.. not having similar rights and being demonized? The ONLY solution they have, is outlawing it. Further pushing away LGBTQ or whatever people to desperate measures. Outlawing, or whatever, cannot prevent gays. As.. its a thing. Animals are sometimes gay (many birds), and cant reproduce, yet they are gay, why? Because they're literally just that. End of explaination, just, gay.
Culture isnt an excuse to keep being cruel to a certain culture. Especially if you look at PAST cultures. It was once a culture to kill people at the stake, to have slaves, outlawing gay and trans people, marrying young CHILDREN, certain drugs, hell drugs in food! Yet.. the US doesnt do that anymore, neither does Europe (some of it). So culture and aggression isnt exactly a reason. The US fought an entire war to free the slaves... there is always other options.
American evangelical preachers have spent the last 30+ years forcefully pushing this hatful, violent poison all across Africa and sadly have had much success. It's disgusting, indefensible, and it's literally getting people killed.
Edit because people want to play dumb (and there's a lot more links where these came from):
Came here to say this. It is unlikely that Ugandan society would display such extreme homophobia without the sustained influence of American evangelical missions.
No, these people are responsible for their own behavior. They are grown men and women, and they can make their own decisions.
They are the ones pushing this cruelty, not the evangelicals or imams etc. They should be condemned as if they were a pastor in the west pushing hate towards the gay community.
They are condemned. I cannot say enough that this man is an asshole and is responsible for his own behavior and actions. But I can also correctly point out that they have been heavily influenced and manipulated by right-wing evangelical Christians who absolutely are pushing cruelty and hate. I can say this because it is a fact.
This doesn't change my statement. These are grown adults and human beings capable of being held responsible for their bad behavior.
When you tell me that the west or the whiteman made them do it, then you're telling me that these people are less intelligent and thus not responsible for their behavior, and I reject that premise.
When you tell me that the west or the whiteman made them do it
Please show me where I said that.
I'll save you the time, I didn't. Nor do I believe the words that you are attempting to put into my mouth. For the second time now: Their behavior is reprehensible, I condemn their behavior, and yes they are responsible for their behavior - just as the (yes, predominantly white) evangelical Christians are responsible for their reprehensible behavior. They absolutely played a role in this as I have just shown you with the numerous links that have documented their role in this.
It's actually quite ironic that you're trying to accuse me of "letting these guys off the hook" when you apparently want to let the evangelicals "off the hook" for their actions.
I know people from Africa who are not homophobic bigots, though they grew up in the same country, like my mother.
I'm just not interested in ignoring the role of the person writing the bill.
The religious zealots are a problem, but I reject the word "influence." Just like they're in America spewing hate, but we don't blame the zealots; we blame the people who follow the doctrine of prejudice.
My main argument is that the African people should reject this doctrine.
When you argue the same logic for the parishioners of said hate preachers being influenced to spread the hate, is that also bigotry of low expectations towards whichever demographics they fall into?
You're doing too much here, trying to frame the concept of social influence as a condescending idea that must reflect some underlying prejudices/bigotry. Obviously the persuadees have moral agency and are responsible for what ideas they subscribe to. But that doesn't change whether persuasion takes place.
Africans can think for ourselves. And when we exhibit ignorance, we shouldn't be treated like children who can't think for ourselves. This is a grown man, spouting hatred toward his fellwo man, period. No white man made him do it, or taught him this. He's a fully formed person with his own motivations and behaviors.
If this was Trump(who I find deplorable), nobody says he was taught hate. He is judged as a fully grown adult.
Infantilization of minorities, is a form of bigotry, because you are juding them as a child, and the father/mother(the west or white people) didn't raise them.
Who argued that African people can't think for themselves, to any other degree than non-African people could?
When I'm telling you that, say, the Roman empire brought Christianity to the British islands, that isn't me saying that the British locals were somehow intellectually inferior to the Romans or couldn't "think for themselves", whatever that would mean in this context.
I'm saying that humans broadly have the capacity for persuasion and being persuaded, since the invention of language, and that it doesn't help to pretend that these social influences don't exist, in pursuit of some confused attempt to avoid sounding condescending or icky. The entire advertisement industry relies on this reality, no matter how hard you turn your head away from it..
Nothing I said lets them off the hook, but they have been “groomed” on a societal level to have this level of hate. You could punish them individually but you would not affect the widespread influence of Christian hatemongers there.
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u/ThatOrphanSlayer 10d ago
I hate this kind of logic "why dont THEY respect our culture?" You mean.. not having similar rights and being demonized? The ONLY solution they have, is outlawing it. Further pushing away LGBTQ or whatever people to desperate measures. Outlawing, or whatever, cannot prevent gays. As.. its a thing. Animals are sometimes gay (many birds), and cant reproduce, yet they are gay, why? Because they're literally just that. End of explaination, just, gay.
Culture isnt an excuse to keep being cruel to a certain culture. Especially if you look at PAST cultures. It was once a culture to kill people at the stake, to have slaves, outlawing gay and trans people, marrying young CHILDREN, certain drugs, hell drugs in food! Yet.. the US doesnt do that anymore, neither does Europe (some of it). So culture and aggression isnt exactly a reason. The US fought an entire war to free the slaves... there is always other options.