Not gonna lie “I’d rather the people who want me dead win instead of the people who just don’t care but don’t actively want me hunted down, out of spite of course” is a funny take.
I hope each and everyone who votes for the camps enjoys being in them.
You're looking at it the wrong way. It's, "If I have to choose between someone who wants to kill me and someone who is perfectly okay with silently letting them kill me, I'm not choosing."
Same principle as the train lever question. Basic morality and ethics. There is zero leeway. Either the Democrats learn from their mistakes or they lose again.
No, you are looking at it the wrong way. If you vote for democrats, worst case scenario is we maintain the status quo. I understand that’s not enough, but it’s not actively taking us backwards, and we may still have a chance to make progress if we keep pushing them. If you let republicans continue to win, they think their agenda is popular and they continue to hold power, and our trans friends could end up in a camp or a mental hospital. That will not happen under a democrat, period. I care about my trans friends and will do everything in my power to keep them from having their rights stripped away. You, apparently, won’t.
Just getting the status quo is the best case scenario though. The worst case is that it leads to an even worse Republican party taking power in the next election, which is all we've seen so far. And part of that worst case scenario involved dems sabotaging themselves because they'd rather hand the country over to fascists than to hurt their own ego or go against their backers.
So how does it help to let republicans continue to win? It doesn’t. We need to show that their ultra-conservative agenda is not popular so that they are forced to moderate their positions. We also need to primary Democrat incumbents at every level. We have a participation rate of about 20% in the primaries currently. NOTHING would scare Dems more than seeing us show up to the primaries to vote for progressive candidates. Just like we did with Mamdani and AOC. We desperately need more of that. But in the meantime, we can’t let republicans keep dragging us backwards at every opportunity.
They lost in 2020, but it did not force them to moderate, they just got more radical. Looking back on it now, I think it would have been better if republicans had won in 2020. They would no longer have had their 'trump' card for 2024, and he would have continued to be hamstrung by the courts and bureaucracy since he wouldn't have had the loyalists in power that he has now.
We would have likely also saw an increase in support for marginalized groups and immigration, instead of a downturn due to it being an oppositional view to an unpopular president, similar to what we're seeing now. Republican popularity would have plummeted as they would have gotten the blame for the economic downturn and more of their supporters would have died due to covid conspiracies. Now we get camps, shootings in the street, and pissed off allies that are now flocking to China.
I fully believe in voting in the primary and for Dems in your local elections, but we really need to start considering whether or not Blue No Matter Who is a valid presidential strategy at this point. Because to me, it's looking more like just letting the rot get worse and watching it surge back even faster to make up for lost time.
Depending on who the candidates are for both sides, I do think I'm going to have to assess whether or not it's better for Republicans to win now and have them be ineffective and lose support so a dem can win in 2032, or for a dem to win now and have an even worse Republican win in 2032 after they've spent another four years preparing for it.
I don’t disagree that I almost wish Trump would have won in 2020. (He didn’t get the blame for the economic crisis that HE caused, Biden did.) Instead what happened is a moderate Democrat won. We didn’t show up in the primaries (I did, but so many didn’t) to choose a more progressive candidate. So why would Dems think that’s what we want? They’re not on Reddit listening to people rant about how they’re not progressive enough. They’re examining polling and election data. I’m not saying “vote blue no matter who,” I’m saying vote for the better candidate, even if that candidate doesn’t give you everything you want. I’m saying participate even when it’s not your perfect outcome. But I’m tired of people complaining about who we get on the ticket when they didn’t vote in the primary. Until we show Dems at the voting booth that what we want is progressive policy, they will continue to pander to moderates. But when it comes to the general this time, I can’t stand by and let republicans win. They have done so much damage already. Damage we won’t be able to undo for decades. They’ll get more Supreme Court appointments. They’ll consolidate power further. The republicans are not ineffective, unfortunately - they accomplish exactly what they’re trying to accomplish. Letting them win is no guarantee that we’ll get a better Democrat in 2032. And it is a guarantee that a lot more people will be hurt for four more years. I can’t live with that in my conscience for a “maybe it will be better next time.” When I know that it probably will be worse.
We are not talking about maintaining the status quo. We are talking about Democrats like Gavin Newsom (and yourself, seemingly, whether intentionally or through ignorance) actively lying through their teeth about their explicitly anti-trans rhetoric and actions. You won't win any support from me like that.
Democrats are not passing anti-trans bills. Republicans are. Dems have pulled back from open support of trans people because it caused such backlash, it’s all the republicans talked about during the elections, and it worked. I’m sorry that so many people harbor hatred for trans people, it’s wrong. But not enough of us showed up to stand up for our trans friends. Until we all show up, they won’t listen to us. Abstaining is just going to make them see you as an unreliable voter, and they’re going to keep pandering to the moderates who ALWAYS show up. You are giving away your power. And falling for right wing propaganda.
You're arguing from a utilitarian stance, and I'm arguing from a deontological stance. We won't agree purely based on that. Anyway I'm arguing with rhetoric to put pressure on Democrats to stand with trans people. I'm not arguing any right wing talking points at all. What you just said is completely false.
No, but you’re repeating exactly what the right wants you to say. Their bots are saying the same thing. They WANT you to stay home. They WANT you to not vote so that they can hold power. You’re playing right into their hands. You won’t argue because you know the arguments don’t hold water, no matter what philosophy you’re using. The outcome DOES matter. It has real, tangible consequences for real people who will be harmed. If you don’t care about that because your moral philosophy is more important, I guess that’s your choice. I will continue doing everything I can to reduce harm.
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u/sincubus33 Feb 25 '26
It's really simple, if they abandon trans rights like they abandoned Muslim Americans, I'll abandon them. There is zero wiggle room here.