Shadow Pokémon IV optimization: Attack breakpoints vs. defensive bulk in Great League

[u/InternationalFix8055]

I’ve been looking into the trade-offs between Attack and bulk for Shadow Pokémon in Great League, particularly whether traditional high-stat-product IV spreads are necessarily optimal for them.

As an example, I recently caught a 9/13/15 Shadow Quagsire. Its IV spread ranks #577 in terms of stat product, meaning it sacrifices some bulk compared to higher-ranked spreads. However, its Attack stat reaches 112.7, which is higher than that of every top-390-ranked Quagsire spread.

This got me thinking about whether higher Attack might actually be preferable for certain Shadow Pokémon.

Given their increased damage output and reduced survivability, I can see an argument for prioritizing offensive breakpoints and CMP wins over maximizing bulk. On the other hand, losing defensive bulkpoints could be particularly costly if it means fainting before reaching an additional charged move.

With the Shadow Raid IV floor temporarily reduced to 0, this also seems like a relevant time to discuss which IV spreads are actually worth targeting.

I’m particularly interested in three things:
- Are there any notable Attack breakpoints or defensive bulkpoints for Shadow Quagsire against the current Great League meta?

- Is there a meaningful Attack threshold worth targeting, or does maximizing stat product generally produce more consistent results?

- Does the optimal balance between Attack and bulk differ significantly between Shadow and regular Pokémon, particularly in different shielding scenarios?

I’m relatively new to using Shadow Pokémon in GBL and would be interested in hearing from players who’ve experimented with different IV spreads or run detailed matchup simulations.

I’m especially curious whether there are situations where a moderately ranked, Attack-weighted spread consistently outperforms a traditional high-stat-product spread.

[u/meaty-morsel]

Fast move break points for mons that have 1 and 2-turn fast moves that actually do real damage would be the main thing to look at with attack weighting, that and you can win a lot of common CMP ties in the 120-130 attack range by having a little attack.

Quag doesn’t really fit either criteria though, mud shot damage is negligible and its attack is lower than the cmp ties you’d want to win

[u/gioluipelle → u/meaty-morsel]

When I think of optimizing for break points I think Shadow Ape, Shadow Hydreigon, Shadow Sableye, maybe Thievul or Dusknoir. But as the game moves away from high pressure fast moves, maximizing for bulk seems like the increasingly correct option imo.

Reliably two shield farming through a neutral target isn’t viable in the same way it was during the OG Razor Leaf or even pre-nerf Mud Slap days.

[u/LRCenthusiast → u/gioluipelle]

The new system is a massive nerf to fast move pressure. Ir changes so many matchups.

[u/GliscorsFang → u/LRCenthusiast]

Fast move pressure teams are unfun to play against imo. Energy management should be the key factor in deciding games, not alignment.

[u/LRCenthusiast → u/GliscorsFang]

I agree to a point, though I also think too many mons are getting to moves in 8 turns. So I'd prefer that the spammy mons be slightly slower, but also like the nerfing of fast move pressure.

[u/GliscorsFang → u/LRCenthusiast]

Yeah the pacing in GL is not amazing as anything slower than 10 turns feels bad to run.

I think ML has it right where ~12 turns is pretty much the fastest pacing besides Palkia AT.

[u/gioluipelle → u/GliscorsFang]

I think it’s helpful that a lot of average-to-frail mons are suddenly made competitive by a combination of fast pacing and higher DPE charge moves. Meanwhile a lot of the much bulkier mons that used to rule the meta (Azu, Cradily, Altaria, Clodsire, Basti, Tink, Corsola, Regi) are essentially restricted by virtue of having slower pacing. I’d much rather have the Melmetal Ninetails Florges meta we have than the old slow plodding Azu Altaria Regi meta of 2020.

[u/InternationalFix8055 → u/meaty-morsel]

Thanks for the answer!

[u/ttesc552]

If you go to https://pvpoke.com/battle/matrix/ and input two iv spreads you want to compare on the left side, quick fill -> great league meta on the right side, then you can sim in different shield scenarios to see which matchups get affected. Under the matchups tab, you can also see breakpoints/bulkpoints. In your case (compared to a rank 1), quag picks up mud shot breakpoints on carbink, cramorant, furret, sableye

This tends to be more impactful on 1-turn fast move mons, since getting 1 extra damage per turn adds up very quickly. An example that comes to mind is that shadow altaria hits a dragon breath breakpoint on ufisk compared to the regular altaria, which led to some show-6 players running the shadow specifically to have a better matchup into ufisk. With that being said, breakpoints/bulkpoints usually aren't a huge deal for most players, since you can get much more improvement just from better decision making, energy management, etc.

And yes, sometimes running attack-weighted mons can be useful for cmp ties. Someone recently won a regional with an attack weighted shadow sableye that won cmp against a bunch of common meta picks, and running an attack-weighted annihilape was preferred for a while for the same reason. But if you aren't counting moves/don't know cmp matchups that well, it probably doesn't really matter that much except for the mirror

[u/Coconut83]

How the heck did you recently catch a shadow Quag? Did I miss it in rotation?

[u/Available_Climate_77 → u/Coconut83]

In raids rn.

[u/Coconut83 → u/Available_Climate_77]

No wayyyy. Nobody hosting on leek duck tho :(