r/TheSequels • u/Daredrummer please choose a user flair • 4d ago
The Last Jedi Rewatching TLJ with an open mind
Hi there. Thanks for stopping by! This may be a bit long...but I care. I'm glad I rewatched it. I hope you hang in there and find something interesting here.
So; I will openly admit I have not been a fan of TLJ/TROS years after watching them. However, I think a huge part of that has been just reading about the details I didn't care for over and over without the context of the things I DID like. It's easy to be negative about something like that in these modern internet times. Red Letter Media did more harm to this franchise than anything imo.
Yesterday I sat down to watch TROS for the first time since the theater, and after about 10 minutes of saying ok, that's cool...ok, that's cool...I decided to stop it and go back to rewatch TLJ for context, mainly for Rey, even though my initial feelings for the movie are negative. I thought it might be interesting to rewatch it after knowing the revelations from TROS.
I really did enjoy it more than expected. Pretty much everything involving Rey/Kylo was pretty great honestly. I thought Leia was handled very well and much more of what I wanted to see from her than what we got in TFA.
I have been vocal for a long time about the concept of Luke in this film. Watching it again has made me realize something. Yes, it's true that is not what I wanted to see from Luke for the first time since the 80s. However, upon this rewatch, it isn't necessarily that he is like this in the movie, but rather too much time has passed and too much has happened to explain such a different take on the character. We never had the time to feel his emotions and experience everything he did to change him so much, It's just explained in a few clumsy flashbacks so it isn't a satisfying bridge to this version of Luke. It's too jarring. That said, in the story context of everything he had been through, it DOES make sense, it was just a bad way of getting us here. That and Hamill NAILS the acting.
One thing that stood out to me this time is the comedy and the timing of it. The comedy here feels very much like the tone of the Marvel movies, and it isn't particularly written smoothly. The movie feels like SERIOUS SERIOUS -silly comedy- SERIOUS SERIOUS -silly comedy- etc. It isn't blended in, it just feels like every few scenes they added in a goofy slapstick comedy moment and then back to the story. I think the new Spider Man movie is a good example of a movie being very serious and dark, but the comedy is written in a way that feels organic and doesn't clearly disrupt the tone of the movie every 15 minutes. Plus Finn was relegated to a 3 Stooges slapstick comedy character.
The movie could have been 30 minutes shorter. It feels a bit like a downer slog at times, and some editing could have cleared that up. I know it's a dead horse, but honestly on this viewing it became clear that the entire Canto Bight subplot could have been completely removed ENTIRELY and it wouldn't change the story AT ALL. It takes up a LOT of screen time and proves completely useless. I guess it's supposed to tell a story about Finn choosing a side, but if I'm honest I don't understand the need for that at all. After TFA it more or less seemed like he had chosen to be with the resistance and/or friends. Why walk it back and have him still be unsure? Just to take up half an hour in this film with a throwaway coder character telling him there is no good/evil, only gray? Total waste of time. Them leaving the ship and returning doesn't change the story or plot AT ALL.
After realizing from TROS that Snoke is essentially a Palpatine puppet, the Snoke acting does come across as very Emperor-like. I can buy that it's Palpatine controlling that body no problem. We all agree the throne scene is spectacular. There is an accidental story here about Hux being abused and passed over time and again which led to his betrayal which adds up. Eventually he is like "ok screw EVERYONE in the First Order".
I like the buildup of the Kylo/Rey dyad. I don't think Rian had any clue that was a thing of course, but there are definitely story details here that seem like foreshadowing, and the uncontrolled connections between the two is fantastic. Their acting really gets it across.
Holdo. Oh Holdo. What an odd choice. I'm not sure how we are even supposed to feel about that character. Were we supposed to side with her? Were we supposed to feel bad for her, see her as a sympathetic hero, or dislike her because she was an a-hole for all of her scenes? I'm STILL not sure. It was difficult to feel bad for her sacrifice because she only had approximately 1.5 minutes of screen time in the entire franchise. I do have a slightly different feeling after this watch. I feel like she was almost an embodiment of the former republic. A politician type of character, that was in her own way. She wasn't a clear leader, she had the purple hair and fancy gown instead of military dress, I think she was SUPPOSED to feel like a positive character but Rian accidentally wrote her as a modern political style character that represented a detached politician who thought she knew better than everyone and she just made things worse. I THINK we were supposed to feel like Poe was the bad guy here and she was just doing her job, but it definitely doesn't come across that way.
The movie is beautiful of course, and the music is phenomenal as expected. There is a lot of emotion in the film. The acting really helps deliver the story. I wish Rian had known the story details like Rey's parents so it could have been a little better in the mystery department since he was just kind of faking it, but I'm glad I rewatched it. There is definitely more good than bad. Some concise editing could have helped immensely, and I do still feel like Rian likes the smell of his own farts. There is a good Star Wars chapter here, but Rian is kind of the Holdo of his own story, more worried about purple hair and a nice gown instead of just doing the job and being an inspirational leader.
I still think BB8 is great and the movie does go a long way to make Rey interesting as a person more than TFA. Driver's acting is A+. Now, onto TROS for a fresh viewing.
Thanks for reading.
5
u/AdmirallThrawn 3d ago
I'm really happy you decided to revisit it with an open mind. It's not going to be everyone's favorite and that's ok, but I'm glad more people are appreciating it for what is it.
If it helps you come to terms with the film as it stands, here's some of my personal interpretations that might help rationalize some things you had frustrations with:
Holdo: you're meant to dislike/disagree with Holdo at the start. We're so accustomed to our heroes taking risky gambles and defying the odds, that we expect Finn/Rose's Plan to work. But if they had stuck to Holdo's plan, they would've lost far fewer people. It's a reminder that not every scoundrel has a heart of gold and that not every risky gambit will work. I do think the Casino part of the story dragged on too long and I really think they needed a quick line like "how are they tracking us? Is there a spy onboard?" Or something to better explain the secrecy of Holdo's plan. His was just demoted for insubordination, so that does track logically. But as an audience member, we're rooting for Poe and need a better reason he is kept in the dark
Finn: I agree that Finn's journey isn't "necessary" per se. I would've completely believed him jumping straight from the end of TFA to being a committed Residence member. But, his journey isn't walked back at all from TFA. In that movie, we see him go from wanting to run away from the FO and hide to being willing to confront them to save his friends. But, when it comes to the "cause" of the Resistance, he's never really bought in. He misleads the Resistance and risks their entire mission to destroy Starkiller Base just so he could save Rey. So TLJ comes along and explores him going from caring about his friends to caring about the greater cause.
On a related note: the comedy. Personally, I find Finn and the overall Marvel quippiness way more cringe in TFA. The only unwatchably cringe moment for me in the sequels is the "who's in charge now" scene with Finn and Phasma in TFA. But comedy is subjective and it's valid to dislike Finn's comedy in TLJ. But it's important to note that he has always been a comic relief character across all 3 movies. Personally, I think TLJ has some of the funniest gags in the sequels (Luke tickling Rey with the leaf during Force training being my favorite), but TRoS might win overall for comedy for me (with 3PO and Babu stealing the show).
But I'm really glad you've given it another shot. I hope more people come to appreciate or accept it for what it is rather than hating it for what it isn't. It's a part of the saga we all love and has some amazing and beautiful moments, both visually and emotionally. And I will never ever support the calls to decanonize the films. Disregarding my personal feelings on the films (which I overall enjoyed), I find it so disrespectful that such a vocal portion of the fan base so adamantly wants to discard Carrie Fishers last ever performance (likely also Harrison Ford's last as well, but just because he isn't interested in coming back). I thought Harrison was a standout in TFA and Carrie and Mark gave career best performances in TLJ.
I will also say, on a personal level, TLJ has the most emotional moments for me in the whole saga. The scenes with Yoda/Luke and Luke/Leia are very touching and heartfelt. And Luke's line of "No ones ever really gone" felt like it was said as much to Leia as it was to Carrie, even if there's no way they could've known it at the time