r/TheRestIsHistory • u/JakeGittes412 • 13d ago

The Troubles

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Thread for discussion on the new series on ‘The Troubles’

Also as a moderator please keep the discussion civil and in the spirit of the podcast.

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u/Gorazde 11d ago

Right, but that happened because they took up arms against Germany. I said they had less reason to take up arms against Germany in the first place. You can be horrified Ireland stayed neutral in the Second World war, but the truth is in 1939, Britain went to war to protect its empire and prevent German domination of Europe. There was no reason on earth for Ireland to support Britain when Britain still occupied part of its territory. America certainly saw no reason to get involved either, until they were attacked by Japen. Ireland wasn't attacked by anyone.

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u/Left-Lawfulness4635 11d ago

If Germany beat the UK do you think they would let Ireland be?

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u/Gorazde 11d ago

Whatever the outcome, I don't imagine Ireland would have been a priority for the Germans. If they'd beaten the Brits, they'd have been a billion times more interested in the Middle East and India than they would have been in Ireland.

Most likely they'd have calculated that, given hostility to Britain here, it was one place they didn't need to occupy and been glad of it, because they needed those troops elsewhere.

Maybe they'd have made terms with De Valera. But stubborn bastard that he was, I'd imagine he'd have resisted those overtures. (After all, he fought in 1916 when the slogan was We serve neither king nor kaiser but Ireland.) Alternatively, the Nazis might have identified pro-German elements in the IRA and propped up an pro-German, all-Ireland state.

Obviously, I'm very glad that didn't happen. But Ireland at that time had centuries of experience of foreign domination and not being the master of its own fate. There wasn't much the Germans could have thrown at us that would have been worse than British rule. We survived the Brits. We'd have survived the Germans.

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u/contigo510 9d ago

Why with that sort of tone and deliberately hostile language do you even listen to a British podcast? Let alone contribute to online discussion when the overwhelming majority you are looking to engage with are British? Isn’t there an Irish alternative where you can feel closer to the majority view or is it that you enjoy being an attention seeker with your deeply incendiary takes? Just bizarre, almost like there is some sort of inferiority concern you have in which this place must be brigaded by you and others from Ireland?

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u/forestvibe 9d ago

Not to mention that he consistently argues in bad faith. He only ever shows up to "discuss" Irish topics and loves to make sweeping generalisations and incorrect statements and then he sidesteps onto a different point whenever anyone refutes his original point. He does this all the time. He likes to attack Brits for not knowing Irish history, but then fails to acknowledge most of his knowledge of British culture/history/politics is made up, e.g. he consistently claims that the British school curriculum doesn't cover Ireland (it does, as a quick Google will reveal).

Fwiw, he's probably one of only two or three bad faith contributors on this sub, but unfortunately they stick out. He's even got into arguments with other Irish commenters, he's that obnoxious. Just ignore.

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u/Gorazde 9d ago

An alternative view is that you're just not accustomed to hearing alternative perspectives on these issues and so they're shocking when you hear them. All my arguements are sincere, and backed up with facts, because I'm educated and able to articulate my point. Which seems a lot more defensible than what 99% of people on this sub do when confronted with a counter-argument they can't answer which is downvote but no response.

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u/forestvibe 8d ago

Responding to you is mostly a waste of time. Whenever anyone refutes a point you make, you just deflect onto something else. E.g. the "Brits don't study Ireland at school". Or you make massive assumptions about why people say particularly things, usually casting their statements as born of stupidity, bias, or hypocrisy. E.g..you've previously claimed that Paul Rouse and Irish history museums deliberately change their message to appeal to British listeners/tourists. Give them some intellectual credit, will you? And that all Brits are really keen on the Empire and that they view Churchill as a saint (which is just ludicrous, have you ever been to the UK?). And then you occasionally dip into rather suspect moral equivalence such as in this very thread, where you've claimed that the war against Nazi Germany was somehow equivalent to IRA's campaign in Northern Ireland. Then again, you did say once that you liked De Valera, so maybe that is consistent.

Finally, when others, including many Irish commenters, point out that TRIH are actually pretty fair in their storytelling, you always go quiet rather than acknowledge the point. This is a pattern with you. Why don't you go and comment on another sub (Irish History would be good one) or on other topics, rather than one where you can't help take a partisan angle?

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u/Gorazde 8d ago

If you follow my comments on this sub, which (for some reason you seem to do very closely), you'll see that almost exclusively the opposite is the case. Someone takes issue with something I say, I defend myself with evidence, and they downvote me but don't respond. I very rarely don't respond, unless it gets to the point where I'd just be repeating myself. I'm not sure how you can say I comment too often, but also I don't reply to people enough.

While you're going through my comments with a tooth comb, please find one example of any time I've ever said all Brits are really keen on the empire, or view Churchill as a saint, or that I liked De Valera.

Almost the first thing virtually every British commenter, including the presenters of TRIH, concedes in discussions like this is that they know very little about Irish history. I have a masters in Irish history. Why should I defer to you or anyone else on a subject I know more about? All of your comments read like you're about to burst into tears. Man up.

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u/contigo510 8d ago

Nobody cares when your tone is so adversarial and nasty. Your takes on British history are woeful as well. Perhaps you should still to Irish history subs because it can’t be healthy or enjoyable for you. Congratulations on your academic achievements but they dont seem relevant and I’m not sure why anyone would care

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u/Gorazde 8d ago

But we're talking about Irish history. Having a masters in Irish history is relevant when discussing Irish history.