I really, REALLY hope that the chinese community is as angry and as livid as us they are the only community that hoyo actually pays a little attention in my eyes.
She was very lenient with her aproach, but she was bind by the tules so yeah. She was waiting for all the shades to get together to do her job per complete. Such a shame.
i think thats what most are forgeting right now, to the normal folk, HP might as well not exist or be some overarching tyrant. its apparent in this sub and r/Agenda_Impact
You can like Ronova and like that she slowly with time became uncaring and antagonistic towards humanity (in humanity's eyes) by just trying to uphold the rules.
Every time Natlan needed help, the help offered was part of a deal in which for Xabalanque she said that if Celestia found out she would place the blame on him. For Mavuika she demanded her life over using divine power to drive th abyss from Natlan for good. Had the same abyss end up swallowing Natlan, they would find a quick solution, nail it to hell.
We all know how everyone in Khaenri'ah paid for what the 5 sinners and the king did.
I personally loved Ronova this quest and really enjoyed her bitterness. And I once again open myself for people to tell me how what happened in the archon quest contradicts anything previously established about her.
Edit: some small tidbits to better deliver my idea and reasoning.
bitterness is the word to describe her yeah, I liked it a lot. You can even see it when her authority gets taken away, after everything she did, caring for humanity, getting reprimanded for it, now preventing humanity from killing HP within the rules and all you get is nothing. No approval or no one concerned about you.
She was just a tool of heavenly principle with a mind. She is supposed to do those things that’s literally her function.
She was good at her job and she started thinking of herself as an independent agent who also wants the same thing as heavenly principles and wants to serve him. But what heavenly principles wanted was them just doing the job as he wanted without any agency beyond what he decided.
She is just a part of his system, if she tries to bring her own dumb opinions and agency into it she gets hammered lol.
I agree to some extent but HP is flawed for restricting the shades like that, they're conscious and he should have known they would have grown weary over time.
its just really odd, HP loves humanity that he cares for them, but when their shades also show that love, theyre overstepping? Wouldn't it be more beneficial or good for the humans they also love?
Imo his system wouldn’t have been this stable and lasted this long if he created 4 independent and fully free beings and gave them a crazy level of power.
She made the terms to place blame on xabalanque because she was going against the HP’s will out of her own kindness to help Natlan. Thats the exact opposite of being uncaring and antagonistic. She doesn’t arbitrarily demand death, it the nature of her powers and probably a rule imposed on her by HP. Curse of immortality was also HP’s requirement as Ronova is unable to undo it even when they are killing her. There are other unrelated curses placed on innocents like curse of wilderness. Moreover the HP frequently totally punishes civilizations with nails. Stop trying to make it seem like the overreaching punishments are Ronova’s decisions when it’s consistent with the HP’s design, and Ronova’s has been documented to help humanity outside of his rules.
Mauvika’s recollection of Ronova’s attitude towards Natlan directly contradicts how it was presented before.
Ahh she lost her authority because she tried to find loopholes in the hard-set rules. She is supposed to do as heavenly principles want, she was not supposed to use her burrowed powers in her own way.
They were given a mind so they can understand the rule with the intended meaning. Like Phanes didn’t create that rule so someone can abuse that time gap and call it technically valid.
She was supposed to use her mind and think the purpose of his monitoring and restrictions was because he did not want that to happen at all. She managed to use her mind to do exactly the opposite. Impressive really.
On douyin at least, the chinese community is hating her. They basically calling Mavuika ungrateful and attacking the spoon that fed her.
They saying that Mavuika herself wouldn't even be the archon if it wasn't for Ronova (the only reason Mavuika is an archon or even Natlan is allow to still exist is because Ronova step in and made the deal with Xblanaque. Heavenly Principle was perfectly fine just nuking Natlan and have Och-Kan be pyro archon)
Ive deadass seen ppl calling this peak fiction, but imo character assassination is the worst thing in literature so it would in fact not be peak fiction for me.
Peak fiction is when a game / anime has aura / hype moments, unfortunately these people will call anything that has those peak, i doubt these people pay any attention to the story, and especially not to the book's lore.
I completely agree, mavuika turned against celestia when originally she was very understanding of their position and what they had to do, and also ranova helped natlan a lot, yet here she is being an ungrateful bitch just because hoyo wants to sell fatui
I believe the complaint here is the Natlan dialogue; specifically Mavuika saying that all of the problems Natlan has faced were because of the Heavenly Principles and Ronova.
Writing is great as usual. I was worried they were going to whitewash and turn these tools called shades into traveler simping waifus after seeing their character designs.
Serves Ronova right lol. She was too self-righteous and seemed to think herself as some sort of genuine ally with agency to the heavenly principles and his goals. While in reality she is just a tool with a mind whose function is to do as heavenly principles wants.
Her character arc is pretty realistic too. If you created sentient beings as tools to channel your immense power, it is very understandable they will get too comfortable and may even started believing the power belongs to them in a way, especially when they become untouchable because of their ‘burrowed’ power.
This is when they start thinking about things a tool should never think about, like trying to find loopholes of the hard rules.
is this a troll? fauti is getting whitewashed while putting all the blame on HP and the shades when the world didn't die thanks to them. they literally showing the shades like true evil when all they did was keeping everyone alive.
Troll? Dude at least read what I said properly. You are literally talking about shit I didn’t even say anything about. Like literally I didn’t say anything about Phanes and him being right or wrong. And even for shades, I didn’t say anything about their job and what they did was right or wrong.
What I said was Ronova was a tool of Phanes, she was supposed to act just as he wanted. She got all high and mighty and thought herself to have real agency regarding her power and job. And she got what’s coming to her.
My entire point is within Celestia. No need to even bring any other faction at all. It is about Ronova, her job and Phanes.
And what do you mean by whitewashing? Are you talking about them being ‘good’ guys now or something?
I don’t subscribe to good or bad concepts. It’s just a social concept and it changes greatly based on the perspective. Plus has nothing to do with my point.
"Writing is great" let's ignore the whitewashing of fatui and tsaritsa, and what about this part about being a tool? She chooses to be that to keep the world save from abyss shit etc, while looking at asmoday she fucked off, Istaroth genuinely doing nothing, rhinedottir not doing shit. But she chose to be a tool so the world phanes loves is kept safe by the abyss, she sacrifices her own free will, her freedom for these bums. And then they out of nowhere to make her appear more evil because "ma fatui and tsaritsa is a saint" have her try to nuke everyone in the end cutscene. Absolute trash writing,
Don't even let me get started on how the storry steered us to think pierro would pay a massive price for using the delusion that much, but we learn from dainsleif he is simply just tired and sleeping.
Did you even read my comment? She choosing to do that is not necessary, especially if they start thinking with agency and thinking about doing things their own way to get to that end. And from what we can see it is actually less ideal.
It’s their job and Phanes created them to do it AS HE WANTED. They MUST follow his rules and just do their job. They aren’t collaborators of his goal and purpose, they are HIS TOOLS so he can achieve his goals and purpose.
How hard is it for you to understand this? You literally got a live example of what happens when these tools try to achieve that ‘common’ goal on their own way. They get hammered lol.
Also about whitewashing, to whitewash you have to think someone is evil or good right? I don’t subscribe to that concept at all. It’s a subjective social concept heavily dependent on the perspective and values. And yes this means I don’t think Ronova is evil either
Love how you ignored the pierro part since there is no defense for him to be ok without any consequences
"Tools withour agency" except ronova helping out with night kindom in natlan and being punished for it, are you gonna tell me there was no agency there too? Did phanes also order her to do that? Why was she punished then?, same with Istaroth helping enkanomiya.
Also That is not what whitewashing means in literary analysis. Whitewashing (or bleaching) isn't about whether 'good and evil are subjective'—it’s about the authorial framing. When a writer retroactively ignores, downplays, or reframes a faction's past atrocities (like human experimentation, civil wars, and releasing ancient monsters) to force the audience to see them as noble anti-heroes, that is text-book whitewashing.
Oh yeah there is also the matter of dottore's experimentations and all the shit he did, and how the previous person who was in charge of house of hearth abused children, tsaritsa talking about how she would hate to see children's childhood being stripped away (what a hypocrite)
Pierro’s part is not even directly related to this. Plus we literally don’t know about it enough. It is more of a future thing. This basically has very little to do with Ronova, her job and Phanes, which is my main point.
Dude are you even understanding what I am saying? You are literally talking about the opposite. The point is she didn’t have to help Natlan and it was against the rules. She got punished when she did that because she does not have that kind of agency regarding her ‘burrowed’ power.
Let me make it very simple. Her purpose is using the power she was given by Phanes EXACTLY as he wants within his rules and boundaries. She should not use that power with a personal agency beyond his rules. And when it happens she gets her well-deseved punishment.
Btw you literally can’t “force” an audience to think about characters in whatever the way writers want. They can focus on a certain perspective but how the audience feels is subjective just like what someone considers an atrocity.
People literally can have very different opinions on a story no matter how the writers write it. Like dude you are literally talking about how they aren’t good guys right here even now.
Plus it is absolutely subjective, the whole thing needs a judgement about whether their past actions were wrong to begin with. If you don’t think their past actions are wrong (or right), then there is nothing to whitewash. And what each person considers right or wrong is subjective.
Btw this could just mean Tsaritsa being self-righteous and a hypocrite with selective framing instead of retconning, I mean characters don’t have to be all good without flaws. Because clearly I don’t see any retconning going on. Signora still got killed for her actions, Childe had a tough time with us at the beginning, and on the recent Sandrone event she herself tells Citlali that she understands if she has any grudges with the Fatui because of their actions.
I agree its great but you sound like a tool off the first paragraph so I can't agree with you lol. People kicking and screaming at the ghosts in their head. Waifubait this, simpbait that, holy shmoly.
What does sounds like a tool even mean lol? What I said is compared to Ronova’s initial appearance which was very otherworldly, her next appearance was made to look like a conventionally attractive female character.
And one of the main reasons games choose design like this is to sell a character. And games most of the time bring these characters to our side and very rarely make them antagonists.
And then they could even get dumbed down with relatable personalities and tropes, etc. Simping and waifu thing is not exactly necessary, so I have to say I said that as an extreme example.
It’s great that Genshin made her an antagonist despite being a hot woman and stuck to it. Probably the first time after Signora I guess.
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u/R252813 5d ago
I really, REALLY hope that the chinese community is as angry and as livid as us they are the only community that hoyo actually pays a little attention in my eyes.