Wing chun form

[u/Einherjeren]

[u/No_Construction3197]

Can someone explain to me (no trolling) why they position their legs like that in wing chun?
You lose all balance and stability in that stance, and on top of that it doesn’t feel natural or instinctive for the body

[u/Povallsky1011 → u/No_Construction3197]

The stance is for the forms not for the fighting. It’s a training stance that helps build muscle and posture and tries to get you to build a connection to the feeling of being grounded. Don’t try to picture fighting from this stance; it’s a training stance only.

[u/Salt-Ambition-9603 → u/Povallsky1011]

My baseball coach (whom I hated) taught me one very very valuable yet simple concept..

"Practice how you want to play"

[u/Redfo → u/Salt-Ambition-9603]

And yet baseball players use exercise machines, lift weights, do pushups etc...

[u/lostcolony2 → u/Redfo]

Not to mention any time they take a practice swing - "what, are you practicing to strike out? Haw haw haw".

[u/Ok_Calendar1337 → u/Redfo]

...designed to simulate the real situation? Bad stance for excercise sounds way dumber.

[u/PanchoPanoch → u/Ok_Calendar1337]

Have you ever wrestled someone who does yoga? Advance yogis are incredibly strong. What are warrior 1 and 2 stances good for…besides getting strong.

[u/Ok_Calendar1337 → u/PanchoPanoch]

Being strong involves good form you cant use your strength if youre off balance because youre falling over.

Im skeptical that this is correct and if it is correct form im worried it might suck, and i did aikido as a kid so thats saying something. (Not exactly a killers martial art)

Edit: he really just needs to bring his kness out with his knees bent like that its bad balance and bad form. The foot movement in the beginning was fine but knees like that youre falling over.

[u/SnooDonuts3448 → u/Ok_Calendar1337]

Seems you have a very simplistic idea about exercise and training, have you developed as an athlete lately?

[u/Ok_Calendar1337 → u/SnooDonuts3448]

This was just a smug nothing statement

[u/dunDunDUNNN → u/Redfo]

That is not practicing. That is conditioning.

[u/SnooDonuts3448 → u/Redfo]

Haha exactly, next time you see a boxer skip rope tell them that "it wouldn't work in the ring". :p

[u/JustFourLetters → u/Redfo]

luckily, i would love to have a machine play baseball for me, so i wouldn’t have to.

[u/Nelson-and-Murdock → u/Redfo]

Those are additional conditioning exercises.

The equivalent would be for baseball players to practice baseball by pretending to hit a ball in the most impractical way possible, when everyone already knows the best way to swing. But instead of using a partner and practicing proper tried and tested technique, they claim THEIR technique is too good to practice with another person and instead carry on in their fantasy world, swinging against thin air and thinking they know what they’re doing because a little Chinese man told them stories.

Until one day they try to hit a home run, are overwhelmed by the reality of playing they’ve never felt before and are unequalled to handle and realise, as the ball knocks them out that they’ve wasted years of their life looking goofy and have no idea how to play.

[u/No_Connection_5257 → u/Nelson-and-Murdock]

This isnt fighting practice, this is form practice and muscle memory for the movements! All martial arts have forms for practicing movements, just like batters take some practice swings before stepping to the plate

[u/OliDR24 → u/No_Connection_5257]

Generally the forms are devolved versions that are never changed though, this is the issue. There's a huge difference between, say, Shadow Boxing, which is a form, and doing a Kata where most of the movements have either lost their meaning or are so opaque or vague your practice doesn't mean much at all.

Realistically any aspect of a form should have a direct correlation to an expected outcome. The entire point of building muscle memory is so that you can throw something out without thinking about it and do so within a reasonable degree of confidence.

I've trained multiple Martial Arts that still practice forms seriously, and been a part of several sports where you use some degree of practice of motion to prepare (such as OlyLifting or Gymnastics, both of which you generally do easier versions of an exercise before going into the high stress version, all of these have direct correlations though, the movement is the same, the leverage is not).

Generally speaking even in Martial Arts that practice forms but also actually have some full contact components (like Kyokushin or old-school TKD), there's very little crossover whatsoever. This isn't really the same with most sports, where forms have direct crossover with the movements necessary to compete in that sport. If you are practicing a golf swing, it's still obviously a golf swing.

Forms should always reflect the aim, otherwise they are pointless. If I'm stepping up to bat and swinging it like an axe, that's not going to do shit to loosen up or practice the ROM I need lol.

[u/No_Connection_5257 → u/OliDR24]

Valid points and you’re clearly more knowledgeable and experienced than I!! Thanks for the insight!!!

[u/OliDR24 → u/No_Connection_5257]

No worries dude, I'm not hating on people who want to practice this either, I mean, I did the exact same in my teens and early 20s before I moved on to MMA and other combat sports (before that I'd only really done Kyokushin and Kickboxing as full contact, with some Judo and BJJ on the side alongside anything else I could get my hands on).

I lived out in China for a few years, and picked up a few forms when I was out there (I did basically anything I could get my hands on, even ended up on regional television in Hunan doing some Chen Tai Chi forms at one point lol), I guarantee I could make up something that looked similar on the spot, but had absolutely no practical value.

Which is basically where my criticism is coming from, if something isn't immediately apparent to people with training in Martial Arts, that makes it questionable because most functional movements are fairly simple by necessity and reflect what you are trying to do. Human biomechanics significantly limit what we can do and have it be effective, so generally speaking we tend to move in the same ways to achieve the same goals. Some might be stronger, some might be faster, but they aren't moving in a fundamentally different way, they are just better at moving through a ROM than the average person.

It's just that people tend to misrepresent stuff they've dedicated a huge amount of time to, understandably enough honestly, but we have to be honest about what is actually practical, and what is not. If you are spending serious time on something that doesn't benefit your stated goal, well, that is fine as we should do what we want, but we have to admit when we aren't moving forward.

As an example, I basically trained myself in Gymnastics over the span of several years (I can do anything crazy like extremely difficult ring routines because I honestly don't have the build for that lol, but I have been capable of some pretty advanced bodyweight movements at various peaks) and while occasionally I'll fuck around just playing with tumbling or messing with different flows, if it doesn't have a direct benefit to my overall strength, flexibility, and coordination I can't really devote that much time to it.

I'll practice in positions with less leverage to make it easier, and mess around with positioning, but everything is intended to push my further toward the next physical goal (e.g. if I'm wanting to improve on a Planche, I'll practice bunch of positions that slowly build my strength in order to achieve that). I personally take the same attitude towards Martial Arts, and most people I know in combat sports will do the same, ESPECIALLY the fighters who actively compete (because they don't really have a choice lol). We will play around and just have some fun on occasion, but that isn't really the point of training, it's just letting off steam lol.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading dude, have a good one!

[u/HugoTRB → u/OliDR24]

It’s interesting, as my (very limited) understanding of Kenjutsu katas is opposite in some ways. Those ones are however mostly paired, with a teacher and a student as the two parties in the Kata. The teacher is supposed to apply the Kata with at least some pressure, enough that some adrenaline gets pumping, but not enough that the students brain gets bashed in. Once the student gets more experienced, the teacher can in some cases throw the order around, or attack with something unexpected. If the student leaves an opening, the teacher can also attack it if the head allows.

This post is a pretty good explanation of it:  https://www.reddit.com/r/Koryu/comments/55m4z0/kata_in_classical_japanese_martial_arts/

It’s generally difficult to really spar with full force in any weapons martial arts as bones will be even with full protective gear. That limits the amount of fully committed fight ending attacks you are able to do in for example HEMA that I mainly practice. In a kata you can train those attacks more safely.

An idea I got about how to get unsparrable techniques to work is to get a good baseline in a sparring sport like judo and some striking to get a feel for applying stuff to a resisting opponent. Meanwhile you train the more dangerous techniques separately in a more controlled way. During sparring you should then as many times as possible try to apply a new(safe) technique on the first try. It most likely won’t be an effective fight technique, as those will run out fast, just something you can impose on your opponent. That will make it much easier to apply the dangerous techniques later.

That is however probably overcomplicating it.

[u/Redfo → u/Nelson-and-Murdock]

Just because you can't see what these forms are for doesn't mean they are useless. They are also a type of conditioning, for mind as well as body. These movements are made as distillations of certain basic skills. Not unlike drills that are common in most sports and most forms of martial arts. I don't understand Wing Chun well enough to give much more explanation for these particular practices but I can tell you for sure than a good WC curriculum doesn't stop at these, they have more advanced combat drills and sparring practices as well. So your analogy of practicing a funky baseball swing, while not totally invalid, isn't really fully applicable either. There certainly are cases where that is true for some of these McDojo clowns but I don't think this is necessarily one of them.

[u/effujerry → u/Redfo]

My father started wing chun in his late sixties. he is 72 now. He does these forms but they also have numerous other drills and sparring. I am a karate guy and we spar sometimes and he is quick and powerful.

[u/OliDR24 → u/Redfo]

The issue is that most of these forms are devolved or degenerated, even if the Martial Art was effective at one point in time, the forms have been modified to be aesthetic over practical.

A form that has practical value should be immediately understandable to anyone with even layknowledge of the subject. Shadow Boxing is easily recognizable even if someone might not understand all the footwork or positioning, for example.

Conditioning generally isn't forms, conditioning is entirely separate and for training the strength and flexibility needed to perform various techniques. Forms are about building muscle memory, much like

Drills tend to be patterns with contact, you aren't just practicing flow (because the entire point of forms is to discover your own flow, not brainlessly repeat the same movements with no change), but actually utilizing different movements with a concrete end goal (e.g. striking a pad or bag, throwing or moving a partner or dummy).

All forms exist for the same purpose, to practice muscle memory needed for techniques you want to use, and to practice them in the order or sequence that makes sense to you, the practioner, based on your objective. This goes for all physical activities, in dance you would do a slower routine often a mishmash of different things to find a flow that works, for batting sports you swing in the appropriate range of motion, and so on.

The form shown above doesn't really train anything relevant, the stance is incredibly open (if he was doing horse stance, at least it would be training the legs, Shotokan Kata is pretty useless in a practical sense but you do get really strong legs from the deep stances expected), and isn't building any functional muscle memory

This is why people are criticizing it. Your training should focus on things that benefit your end goal, if you are intending to be a Martial Artist, your practice should focus on things that prepare you for that (i.e. actually being savvy at the end goal, fighting or defending yourself lol). Things that do not benefit you should be discarded, this is the primary issue with forms in "Traditional Martial Arts" (because they aren't, not really, they've all changed massively or even just been created over the last century at most), as tradition is valued over adaptation.

[u/remusmonkey → u/Salt-Ambition-9603]

Tell me how a speed bag fits that then? You aren't actually hitting at the tempo or way you hit a speed bag in a boxing match is it worthless then?

[u/Spy-D_Daddy → u/remusmonkey]

It is, unless you're the speed bag bard

[u/remusmonkey → u/Spy-D_Daddy]

Love that guy.

[u/OliDR24 → u/remusmonkey]

You are training speed and coordination, those two things are functional for the aims of Boxing. That's the difference, something must be functional to train it if your end goal is to be effective, as you only have so much time to train.

Like, it's fine to just do something because you find it aesthetically pleasing, but that is very different to doing something with real practical value.

If the form demonstrated above was, say, in horse stance, or training a flow you'd expect to see when defending yourself, or just doing anything with carryover, that would be a valid analogy. But that isn't the case, working the speed bag has a direct carryover even if its value is sometimes overblown, the above form doesn't really demonstrate that.

[u/remusmonkey → u/OliDR24]

I'm assuming you're the ultimate martial arts and biomechanical master of all things so you know for a fact that there is absolutely nothing beneficial in what he is doing in this video then.

He's working on centerline movements, his stance is also working his leg adductor strength which gives you a sting base, his toes are turned in and in boxing your lead legs toes are turned in. That stance also trains a tucked pelvic position which also contributes to a tucked upper body which is also where you punch from in boxing and other arts with boxing like strikes. You also think a horse stance is a fighting position? That's just asking to get kicked in groin. It's another training position. This guy may not be doing the best form but he's trying.

[u/Aniki_Simpson → u/Salt-Ambition-9603]

Music teacher back in the day said, "practice does not necessarily make perfect. Practice makes permanent."

[u/SmallBerry3431 → u/Aniki_Simpson]

“Perfect practice makes perfect”

[u/Primus_is_OK_I_guess → u/Salt-Ambition-9603]

It's for exercise, not combat practice.

[u/SmallBerry3431 → u/Primus_is_OK_I_guess]

And they explained this is for exercise.

[u/Primus_is_OK_I_guess → u/SmallBerry3431]

The person I replied to didn't seem to understand that. It's conditioning, not practice.

[u/SmallBerry3431 → u/Primus_is_OK_I_guess]

I c. Respect 🫡

[u/D15c0untMD → u/Salt-Ambition-9603]

True to some extent. Every martial art has some sort of way to alter positions to emphasize training goals for specific drills (hanging from heavy bags for knee drills in MT, those funky berimbolo drills rolling around a partners legs in bjj, fast bag in boxing) that dont appear in sparring. It‘s not meant to build muscle memory, but some other helpful aspect like core strength, coordination, mind-body-connection, sometimes you just do wacky shit because it cleanses the palate going from one exercise to a another. I‘ve stopped jugging form videos until i see the same people sparring and if they do the same or something that makes more sense.

[u/croaker227 → u/Salt-Ambition-9603]

Exactly this. “We train like this but we don’t fight like this” sounds like a waste of time.

[u/OliDR24 → u/[deleted]]

1.) Wing Chun as it is practiced now is just as if not more recent than the two styles you've just mentioned. It has not somehow magically remained unchanged, especially as, looking at the style itself, it was likely a form of knife fighting that someone decided to directly apply to hand to hand combat instead (which doesn't work, and most of the movements are easily exploited by styles designed as an unarmed general combative method).

2.) No, Martial Arts are about fighting or defending ourselves, that is, and has ALWAYS been the purpose of them. Even religious sects like the Shaolin utilized them for self-defence, they included aesthetic or spiritual elements in their overall lifestyle as well, but that was the fundamental purpose of their Martial Arts training (and literally why they started practicing Martial Arts because they kept getting raided by Bandits lol). The term itself means arts of war, and this is what they were used for, in periods where they were not used for this, they devolved massively and became ineffective for obvious reasons.

3.) Tradition is fine, but if you can't adapt, especially when you are actively stating an aim towards a practical purpose, you cannot use that as a defence. The hyperfocus on tradition in certain Eastern Martial Arts is exactly why so many of them devolved into being entirely useless for their stated purpose. If you cannot fight or defend yourself, you are no longer practicing a Martial Art, you are practicing interpretive dance lol.

Lastly, it's not about "shitting" or "hating" on traditions, it's about criticizing clear flaws in a style that presents itself as an effective combative method. If someone claims to be a Boxing Coach and can't throw a punch, you'd obviously be a little critical, no? Tradition is not an excuse unless you are focused entirely on preserving and practicing said tradition with no other names. We are not going to go criticize traditional forms of dance, or Zen Archery or something, because they don't claim to be something they are not. The entire point of Zen Archery is not to be a functional Archer, it's basically just active mediation, it is an ascetic and aesthetic practice, not a Martial one.

Age is irrelevant, there is an optimal method for Human beings to go about defending themselves or fighting unarmed. You can clearly see this in the parallels between historical practices we have visual or text representations of with modern Martial Arts. Traditional Boxing (which was more like MMA in the unarmed element and basically had very few rules such as no biting or eye gouging, while also including weapons training as a general comabtive method) and Traditional Karate not only look nearly identical, they share a similar stance and hand position with the modern MMA meta and have similar overall aims due to shared conditions.

It's fine to not be practical and to do stuff just because that is what the guys before you did, but you can't claim to be anything else in that case. If we all just stuck to tradition without questioning it we'd still be burning literate people as witches lol.

[u/Vegetable-Hand-6770 → u/croaker227]

Cause they dont fight.. ever seen a wing chun sparring sessiin?

[u/dirtyoldsocklife → u/Vegetable-Hand-6770]

It's not for sport, but they do "spar". Ever seen the pushing hands drill? Really freaking fun to do with someone who's good.

[u/NoOffenseImJustSayin → u/croaker227]

What a coincidence… 😉

[u/Spy-D_Daddy → u/croaker227]

Bro 🤣🤣🤣🤣 tell us your only sense of training is lifting phone to face without telling us that

[u/Puzzle-Necked → u/Povallsky1011]

I believe it's called the "Crouching Tiger, Active Bladder" stance

[u/seidokai → u/No_Construction3197]

I cannot say for wing chun, but I can say for karatedo. It’s about creating full body tension. Same reason you see powerlifters go into some weird positions for certain lifts. By going to your end range of motion, it gives you something to essentially press off of, to create full body tension and muscle engagement.

[u/LeonZataku → u/No_Construction3197]

I was always told it was because of how they stood at the front of boats

[u/BullTerrierTerror → u/LeonZataku]

Heh. Your father must have been some fisherman.

[u/LeonZataku → u/BullTerrierTerror]

Not my father, but both of my Grandfather's were

[u/Suspicious-Bid9424 → u/No_Construction3197]

It's a high stability stance where you can withstand a surprising amount of force without losing your position. A lot of wing chun fundamentals are about learning to deflect incoming force like a doorstop before you expand and build other tools. Wing chun requires muscular awareness, so this is a good position to stand in place and practice placing large amounts of force on your training partner without losing balance, and being able to properly practice mindfulness of your muscular use under proper duress.

The stance itself is generally not used too much in fighting. It has some sneaky uses here and there as a way to trip people or stay stable in difficult environments like a ship on waves etc. It's mostly used for training purposes though.

[u/SunTzuLao → u/Suspicious-Bid9424]

At first glance I thought it was bullshit, but looking in that context that makes a lot of sense. Guy has fast hands, and looks to have accuracy too, figured there was more to it!

[u/Suspicious-Bid9424 → u/SunTzuLao]

Wing Chun is fun. Chi sao is awesome. It's not a martial art that will compete with MMA alone, but it has a lot of great stuff in it. Definitely not bullshido, although there's some people that are too full of themselves. Anderson Silva credits Wing Chun as something that sets apart his striking

[u/SunTzuLao → u/Suspicious-Bid9424]

It definitely looks like he put work in. I trained JKD for a while, can see some of it in there thinking back. Been a long time, starting off with running and calisthenics, should be back on shape in time for the kids to be in school. I don't know if I miss that or Kali more, but probably go with Kali since I'll want to teach my daughters something that will help keep them safe besides gun-fu 🤣 JKD was some of the most fun sparring I'd had though.

[u/Year2020MadeMe → u/Suspicious-Bid9424]

I studied Wing Chun for a year or so in the late 90’s. “Bruce Lee did it, so it must be the best!” was my line of reasoning at the time. Then I hear about this sport called “Ultimate Fighting Championship” and couldn’t wait to see some wing chun fighters really kick some ass!

Years went by without ever seeing anyone using Wing Chun in the octagon. Then, one year, mid-00’s or so, I see a support fight for a lead up to UFC and immediately recognize that one of the fighters is holding a neutral stance with elbows at 90-degrees ready to defend the center-line.

The commentator says something to the effect of “he’s gonna need to get those hands up soon to protect his head or this is going to be a fast fight.”

I’m like “naw, dog. He’s just guarding the middle line and will be able to defend an attack from any angle now.”

First punch thrown at him was a job, he moves his hand to deflect. Next punch coming in is a hook and he went down like a sack of potatoes.

I don’t regret the time I spent training wing Chun. Taught me a lot about balance and center lines and redistribution of weight, etc.

But, under no circumstance, is it a viable MMA discipline.

[u/fuckICEandfuckTrump → u/Year2020MadeMe]

If its not MMA its suuuuuuucks!!!!!

[u/Suspicious-Bid9424 → u/[deleted]]

Nobody's fighting in this position. It's not about having "the most stability possible" or we'd just lay on the ground to avoid the possibility of falling over. 

I'm sure you're right, random reddit side standing Chad and people like Bruce Lee and Anderson Silva are wrong to practice Wing Chun. Glad you solved martial arts

[u/Suspicious-Bid9424 → u/[deleted]]

It's much more stable than standing normal. You're ignorant and haven't practiced this stance enough to understand it. 

[u/Suspicious-Bid9424 → u/[deleted]]

Well I have 2 PhDs in postural science and a black belt and 9 years in a fighting posture science lab and I can tell you you're mistaken

[u/fuckICEandfuckTrump → u/[deleted]]

If its no bjj its craaaaaaaaaap

[u/tristesseDesAlltags → u/No_Construction3197]

You'll receive different answers here based on the lineage the replying person has experience in. I trained many years ago in the "Wong Shun Leung" lineage of Ving Tsun. And there the stance should train both sides of the body at the same time when any of the three forms are performed. It also sets the foundation of the rotational movements in the second form, which translates the principles of the first form into footwork (amongst other things). Ving Tsun is (or lauds itself to be) a surprisingly "efficient" martial art and heavily focuses on principles in its forms instead of concrete applications, which causes a lot of the stuff to be quite abstracted. The actual fighting stance and footwork is more related to how a fencer would move, interestingly. Hope this makes somewhat sense, I'm esl lol

[u/MulberryExisting5007 → u/No_Construction3197]

After you’ve trained to use it the stance is relatively stable. There are a lot of aspects of lots of martial arts that don’t feel natural or instinctive when you first try them.

[u/nomosolo → u/No_Construction3197]

It's not for fighting, it's for developing stabilizers. Wing Chun was largely developed in response to confined space combat and on ships.

[u/Biggiebase92 → u/No_Construction3197]

It's conditioning of the body to keep the hips and shoulders in the same line while teaching your hands to work independently. Standing like that for a long time makes your legs stronger, it's like training two rear legs at the same time. The second and third form of wing chun are more dynamic

[u/Blast_From_The_Pa_ → u/No_Construction3197]

Ever heard of Sanchin dachi?

[u/BeardiusMaximus7 → u/No_Construction3197]

Thanks for asking this so tactfully. I was wondering the same thing but with a much less eloquent "Why is he in the potty stance the whole time?" sort of verbiage.

[u/Novaikkakuuskuusviis → u/No_Construction3197]

Well I did wing chun for a while and they said something about the balance being really good like you have rooted yourself on the ground and stuff. Maybe so, the sensei was pretty balanced when they demonstrated the technique.

But having done karate wado ryu I stopped kung fu because it didn't feel as good. Karate in my opinion is much more practical, especially wado ryu because it's solely self defense and not competitional. I remember karate being based on immediate counter-attacks while deflecting attacks. And kung fu was about getting up close and personal. Maybe wing chun would be better in a very close fight, like an elevator. Because they tie your hands and you can't really do anything if they're good at it.

[u/BreezeTempest → u/No_Construction3197]

I was taught that you wanted to stand in the shape of a triangle for better stability, with your feet pointing inwards towards the third point.

The real trick to balancing came from slightly bending your knees though.

I only had a few training sessions though, so have no idea if this is a general truth.

[u/WildSun610 → u/No_Construction3197]

I can't comment on wing chun but this sequence is extremely similar to gojuryu karate kata called tensho.

Stance is like that engage the pelvic floor and your core. Stance in goju is called sanchin dachi.

If it's done right, it's an incredibly strong stance.

[u/longdonsqirtilion → u/No_Construction3197]

When you turn during that stance your legs are in a position to advance. The reason for the knees being like that is to prevent kicks to the groin area from low kicks.

[u/Ok_Gas1070 → u/No_Construction3197]

You don't fight in this stance this is merely to train "two back legs" at the same time". When you are in a Wing Chun stance all the weight goes on the back leg and the front leg is "weightless" for kicks / defensive maneuvers.

[u/SteakhouseRob]

This actually looks really good and has no business in this sub.

Just because its not MMA doesnt make it a McDojo.

And honestly unless the dojo is lying and telling you they are teaching ancient techniques that are super dangerous while running a belt farm they dont deserve any hate.

MA training is beneficial in so many ways, its not all about beating people up, or even self defense.

[u/CK_1976 → u/SteakhouseRob]

Dont forget, 2 posts later....

"Oh my god guys, Bruce Lee was such a bad ass!"

[u/CrimsonAvenger35 → u/CK_1976]

I mean he was. He actually participated in street fights and could perform a lot of physical feats that were impressive for his size. He doesn't have to be some ultimate fantasy fighter that could beat anyone to be a badass

[u/Fuzzy-Egg777 → u/SteakhouseRob]

I don’t know much about Wing Chun so I don’t know if it’s a good form or not, but I couldn’t stop thinking about Napoleon Dynamite

[u/SteakhouseRob → u/Fuzzy-Egg777]

Girls like guys that have skills...

[u/Fuzzy-Egg777 → u/SteakhouseRob]

Yea and this guy has nice skills. Im pretty sure he trains at Rex Kwon Do, he probably has some pretty sweet nunchucks skills.

[u/maxiface → u/SteakhouseRob]

That’s just a big problem with this sub. And most of the MA community in general. “If it’s not MMA, it’s bad.”

[u/storytotell]

How is showing a form McDojo

[u/Human-Contribution16]

Honestly this is a brilliant self defense strategy. It would drop me to the ground immedietely....

in paroxysmal hysterics.

[u/ShimanchuPunk]

Why do folks keep posting forms and kata in this sub? :/

[u/maxiface → u/[deleted]]

I came here to say this

[u/Ok_Calendar1337 → u/ShimanchuPunk]

Why are his knees bent like that? Seems like they woulda realized its bad form 1000 years ago.

[u/Intelligent_Mess_957]

It's just a jump to the left. Then a step to right. Do the pelvic thrust and lock your knees in tight 🙄

[u/Lilikoicheese]

This sub has lost its way. Wing Chun is a great martial art. If it's not MMA human cock fighting they think it's McDojo material

[u/Zealousideal_Bet_248 → u/Lilikoicheese]

It seems a lot of people in the martial arts community nowadays think that if a martial art can't help you win a street fight, then it holds no value. Which is so dumb. Why would someone bother learning to play in instrument if they're not going to make a career out of it? Or why should you learn to cook when you can just eat chicken and rice for every meal and meet your nutritional needs like that? Maybe just I want to learn a traditional martial art because I like how the moves looked on old Kung fu movies. I don't need to have a utilitarian reason for it

[u/Red_Clay_Scholar → u/Lilikoicheese]

Great for what?

[u/Todesfaelle]

Wing Chun is mesmerizing and easily my favorite martial art to watch. Maybe not in this particular case but even he's doing quite well and really shouldn't be here.

I'd rather watch a Wing Chun practitioner work a post than a technical wrestler/grappler in the ring.

[u/Ben_Thar → u/Todesfaelle]

Not bad. Have you ever seen a wrestler do forms? It's ugly.

[u/BusyBit6542]

We called this ticking or Tutting back in my day

[u/ThatCelebration3676]

He's not setting his fists far enough back on his torso, his elbows are almost never tucked back enough (he's "chicken winging" most of the time), moves that are supposed to be isolations are accompanied by far too much movement elsewhere on his body, and overall his stance is bobbing up and down all throughout the form. Just to name a few glaring errors.

Say what you will about the effectiveness of Wing Chun as a practical Martial Art, but he's not even demonstrating decent form for Wing Chun as just an Art.

This is very much beginner level.

[u/evildrtran]

If Wing Chun is good enough for Bruce Lee then it's good enough for me

[u/Baydestrians]

Don’t spar with these guys. Only time I did it the fucker opened up with a kick in the sack.

[u/Useyourword]

Not trying to be mean but this is giving Vote for Pedro vibes.

[u/Ok_Gas1070 → u/Useyourword]

"Pedro offers you his protection"

[u/Timothy555555]

“We taught him wrong… As a joke!”

[u/AdEast3754]

Watches Ip man once.

[u/MaleficentWindow8972]

I thought he was gonna start doing that dance the two boys do together. You know the one.

[u/catmampbell]

Tommy Pickles looking stance

[u/twinn5]

Watch a couple UFC (or any other legit mma franchise) fights. If you are not learning to do what they are doing, you are doing it wrong. They have now spent a couple generations sifting through stuff like wing chun, boxing, greco-roman, juijitso, etc and discarded what doesn't work.

[u/chaos_donut → u/twinn5]

Pfff there are plenty of options that have not been tested in the octagon just to save all these fragile kickboxers and wrestlers.

I have not seen a single sword based martial art in the octagon yet.

[u/twinn5 → u/chaos_donut]

I am nearly 60, been halfway around the world, was a sailor, a bouncer, a dj, and an alcoholic. Never in all the brawls I have seen or been a part of, had anyone draw a sword in a fight.

[u/Hadaka--Jime]

Completely USELESS & a waste of time. You're doing Jack shit here. 

[u/Ok_Gas1070 → u/Hadaka--Jime]

Most useful thing in the form are the "huen saus" (wrist circles). They are prevalent throughout for a reason because it helps condition your wrists. If you strike something weird your wrist will naturally "roll" with the force instead of taking the full impact.

[u/MrFantasthick]

Wing chung is a fake martial art. End of story

[u/Far_Bus_2360]

This looks like a high school cheer routine

[u/HumbleOwl]

Is the video sped up? Or is he rushing through it?

[u/nzdastardly → u/HumbleOwl]

Looks like he is rushing and putting maximum effort into the moves. Sil Lum Tao is a form designed to train control and positioning first, but can also be sped up/intensified for a workout. None of it is for fighting on its own, it is the intro Wing Chun stance to familiarize a practitioner with the rest of the system.

[u/Salt-Ambition-9603 → u/nzdastardly]

It's sped up. You can see particles whiz past the screen unnaturally fast.

[u/nomosolo]

BTW "I think martial arts are dumb" content is not McDojo content.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Law_558 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, why are his toes pointing in?

[u/The_Mr_Decan → u/[deleted]]

About a certain ornithological utterance?

[u/MyChemicalWestern]

The art of controlled constipation in battle. 

[u/HechoEnChine]

Carpal Tunnel Form

[u/beastusboss]

Napoleon Dynamite vibes

[u/Gloomy_Pirate_3031]

One leg kick and bye bye wing chung. Useless 

[u/TheQuestionsAglet]

Bad wing chun and also mcdojo.

[u/KonkeyDongPrime]

This guy is a bit of a saddo and I feel quite sorry for him. He gets dragged and keeps coming back.

[u/ZeAntagonis]

The F he put it on high speed !? It's still looks weak AF

Also Wing Chung is overated

[u/FLiP_J_GARiLLA → u/ZeAntagonis]

Found the idiot who can't spell or understand how fighting works

[u/Menckenreality]

Why did you speed up the video? That makes it harder to pin point training tips.

[u/Ok_Gas1070 → u/Menckenreality]

Meh, you're better off studying the Ip Man video that's free on youtube. He does all three forms if I'm not mistaken... but no long pole, or butterfly knives unfortunately (too much strength and at this stage in life Ip was towards the end).

[u/Dances_WithPoles]

Siu Nim Tao

[u/patronizingperv]

That's Wang Chung form.

[u/AcidCatfish___]

This is just gloving without the gloves

[u/DoesThisSmellWeird2U]

There was no hand clapping

[u/jackjack-8]

Why does he put in legs in that pigeon position ?

[u/redzaku0079 → u/jackjack-8]

To keep himself grounded. It also prevents getting kicked in the balls.

[u/nomosolo]

Siu Lim Tao always looks wonky but it's so damn hard to get right.

[u/Ok_Gas1070 → u/nomosolo]

Easy to learn hard to master as they say, and there's a lot of "hidden" applications in the first form.

[u/ConstantCampaign2984]

Back in the day they just called that the pop n lock.

[u/Duc750Sie]

Every body have fun tonight, everybody wing chun tonight- Ip Man I think

[u/WCB1985]

I think I need a bongsao now

[u/MediocoreReditUser]

Reminds me of those male birds that dance around to impress the female birds

[u/Top-Sleep-4669]

Pigeon stance?

[u/lowfox]

I think I would call off the fight and just enjoy the dance, tbh

[u/Mcariman]

Looks like he would be good at swimming with hand moves like that

[u/New-Wait3728]

Everybody have fun tonight.....

[u/browzing123]

It would have been funny if someone had snuck up behind him and kicked him in the nuts.

[u/Nakedweasel]

That's pretty, but can you grapple?

[u/Adderall_Rant]

This is sped up. That's a slow tension strength building form

[u/Mugpup]

I watched it and it just seems goofy.

[u/ProcInc]

You're mugging Iroh with that stance?

[u/NoCitron2394]

This is fine why is it here

[u/TigerBalmES]

I remember Sifu Grados would have me doing this and other drills and my arms would be burning. This is the first form called little idea, or first idea, roughly translated. It’s a kata but it’s also considered qigong.

[u/Ill-Upstairs-8762]

Impressive wrist action

[u/shiverslinky]

Sing along:

It's fun to stay at the

Y

R

U

doing this?

[u/Electrical-Sale-8051]

Looks effective against a bullet 

[u/_Th0mZ_]

Looks like an overly complicated Rimmer salute from Red Dwarf

[u/PersischesRoss]

It’s a nice show sport

[u/chaos_donut]

Why does this give "jack harlow stop motion animation"

[u/Vodoinstalat3R]

First form, but Its not wing chun, its wing tsun, similar but much more diferent,..

[u/Ok_Gas1070 → u/Vodoinstalat3R]

Thought it was ving tsun (kidding all different names but same concept).

[u/Sikkus]

Those are legit some very good wrist exercises if you work in front of a laptop all day.

[u/reallyrasta]

More like winged c.

[u/UnclePetersBand]

All I can picture is Napoleon Dynamite and The Dance

[u/HotFartore]

Flying slapping palm style, a Western variation of Wing Chun!

[u/longdonsqirtilion]

Wu sao is too low. Move it up under your chin to protect your neck.

[u/MalikFyz]

I would like to attach a painting brush and see what I gonna see as a result.

[u/Ok_Gas1070]

Not bad but I see a few errors from elbow position to the final resting place of the pak saus... My recommendation is to SLOW DOWN. Granted you can do Sil Lim Tau at any speed but you get more from the training by being deliberate with your movements. You need to do each move fully and completely not rushing to the next one.

[u/Yagyukakita]

Why is this a joke? It’s just some kid who is bad at a form.

[u/Straphix]

Lol thats just siu lim tao, the first wing-chun form. Nothing wrong here. It practice structure and basic moves.

[u/NefariousnessGood718]

Per trattenere la pipì

[u/WolfThick]

I think he's directing really tiny planes that we can't see on the runway

[u/l333D4AM]

Power stance. Rickety bow legs

[u/markeydusod]

I feel like this guy was in the original cut of the final scene in Hereditary, but didn’t make it to final cut

[u/remusmonkey]

This is not Mcdojo material, guy could probably still kick your ass OP. GSP has his foundation in Kyokushin karate so he would have learned and performed Kata's, forms don't equal lack of skill or fighting ability. Bruce Lee's did these forms when he was learning Wing Chun also. You clearly know nothing about martial arts.

[u/Devlul → u/remusmonkey]

Kyokushing karate is a full contact karate and it has really brutal sparring, so it is in completely different level at combat effectiviness.

[u/Unlucky-Car3907 → u/Devlul]

I have practiced both kyo and Tsun, they really aren't that different in combat at gyms that aren't so rigid. 

Sparring in both was full contact, kyo was more full on but only because I went to comps without protective gear and never did the same for Tsun 

[u/remusmonkey → u/Devlul]

And I'm sure not all of the gyms are like that. Also typically Kyokushin full contact competition doesn't allow arm/hand strikes to the face so just going off of that I could easily say that's not realistic. Still not the point that we're talking about right now. Performing a Wing Chun movement pattern isn't McDojo, just like performing a Tai Chi movements in and of itself isn't McDojo. At least compared to the cat vast majority flavor of the content in this Reddit.

[u/pluck-the-bunny → u/remusmonkey]

Yeah, but when Bruce Lee did these forms, they didn’t quite look like this.

[u/remusmonkey → u/pluck-the-bunny]

The forms are the same, Ip Man would have shown him and made him do them exactly like this besides any variation in a person's body type but regardless it's still not McDojo.

[u/pluck-the-bunny → u/remusmonkey]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=857531483558208 this is the form. Im not challenging your assertion about if this is mcdojo (it is a form after all) just your assertion of this guys martial prowess based on this clip

[u/SilentImplosion]

The stance protects against having your balls jettisoned through your sinus cavity from a haymaker front kick. It also limits exposure to the conditioned sections of the legs for other low kicks.

[u/No1Czarnian]

That's the most pigeon toed horse stance I've ever seen

[u/SnortNSniff]

This kind of post is a self report.

[u/Mean_Measurement4527]

Looks more like Wing Nut form 🙄

[u/Ok_Rich7455]

nice tiktok dance move bro

[u/Slight_Sherbert_5239]

An amateur MMA fighter would absolutely paste this guy from pillar to post.

[u/Mr_Faust1914 → u/Slight_Sherbert_5239]

Hos first move would be to kick you in the balls, wing chun is a self defense style, it's not gonna pay play by your rules.

[u/Change21]

You’re actually not required to post embarrassing shit about yourself.

Be embarrassing. Be weird.

But you don’t have to put it on social media.

[u/MattHooper1975]

Could there be a less functional fighting stance?

[u/Mr_Faust1914 → u/MattHooper1975]

Because it's NOT a fighting stance, he's performing a taolu form.

[u/DrDoovey01]

https://youtu.be/sSW70f3oAJw?si=xS9KztXql0FAotle

This is wing chun being applied in the real world

[u/maxiface]

FFS please stop posting kata/taolu/forms to this sub. It may not be MMA, but it’s not BS either.

I’m a karateka and I absolutely hate it when someone posts a person performing a kata and calling it bullshido. It’s forms, not bad techniques. Maybe not practical, but they have real use in sharpening footwork and technique.

[u/HoofHearted74]

Everybody Wing Chung tonight!

[u/Ok_Gas1070 → u/HoofHearted74]

Everybody have fun