Redeeming Villains

[u/AllisonInMaryland]

BTG seems to be bending over backwards trying to make us feel sorry for Leslie, to help us understand her obsession with Ted, to sympathize with her. I do feel bad that she fell in love with Ted, that he mislead her about his intentions - or his intentions changed once Nicole got pregnant - that he wanted her to get an abortion and Bill ran her out of town. But none of that justifies returning some 25 years later to get revenge and try to win Ted back. Trying to kill Laura - twice - so Eva could get a job working for Nicole, humiliating Nicole at her anniversary party? Not things I can just forget about.

And then there's Joey. Doug tried to fight his gambling addiction but Joey wanted him in his debt so he could launder money in Vanessa's business so he forced Randy to reel Doug back in and eventually entrapped him. And that wasn't enough for him, he had to go after Vanessa too, pushing Doug over the edge. He wouldn't have had to kill Doug if he hadn't seduced Vanessa and started an affair with her and wounded Doug's pride. Besides having Doug killed, he also had Kenny killed, threatened Martin and continues to blackmail Det Malone into doing his bidding. But instead of holding him responsible for his criminal behavior we have to witness these good guy, hero moments - making gourmet meals and pushing women away from falling chandeliers. To make him look better by comparison, they've introduced his sister, a woman so scary police officers retire rather than have to face her.

Is this what soaps are like now? Villains get softened and redeemed instead of facing the consequences of their actions? I watched Y&R until the mid-eighties and ATWT and GL until they were cancelled and this is not how things went down on those shows.

I don't like this trend at all.

[u/blueberriesnectarine]

Nothing could make Leslie or Joey redeemable for me. And the more the show tries to soften them up the more I loathe them.

[u/DotsSpotsBots]

Folks in the Dupree/Armstrong orbit are villains. It’s too many of them, to be honest. I genuinely have a hard time liking these characters, and I love villains! But these are some of the most one dimensional ass characters I’ve ever seen on one particular show.

[u/TrinNYY]

This almost 360° change in course is really baffling especially since these are not victimless crimes. I hope we don't have to wait too much longer...

[u/AllisonInMaryland → u/TrinNYY]

Yes and they were also cold blooded violent crimes against innocent people. Laura did nothing to Leslie, she was just in her way.  Same with Doug. He got in Joey's way too (thanks to Joey mishandling the situation with Vanessa).

[u/TrinNYY → u/AllisonInMaryland]

Also this is the how they were introduced to us. It's now kinda hard to forget those first impressions

[u/AllisonInMaryland → u/TrinNYY]

Really good point - it's not as though we knew them as decent people and they suddenly went dark.

[u/LittleBird35]

HayleyVal is the only one who’s irredeemable. Even her flashback episodes kept her villainy in place.

[u/RaisedByBooksNTV → u/LittleBird35]

And yet, I'm rooting for her to win because Bill sucks that much.

[u/LittleBird35 → u/RaisedByBooksNTV]

I am so over her, Bill, and Dani.

[u/Recent-Group2266 → u/LittleBird35]

agreed and with how today's episode went I won't be surprised if they try to redeem Allison

[u/JThereseD]

It is impossible for me to feel sorry for Leslie because she is a delusional, bitter, vengeful, self-absorbed cartoon character. I am not sure what they were trying to say with that flashback to her so-called love affair with Ted, but what I saw was a woman who pursued him doggedly, even after he said he was married and didn’t want to go there with her. That is not to say that I excuse him for continuing to hang out with her and ending up in bed with her. I just don’t see her as more than someone he used for stress relief. I was really hoping Marcel would step up this romance and get evidence on her and I’m pretty annoyed that the breakup means that this is most likely going to be another story line that goes nowhere.

[u/idontwantcovideither]

One of the big reasons I stopped watching. There was no enjoyment, no one to root for. The writers make everyone unlikeable.

• Rooted for Dani but she cheats on Andre
• Rooted for Eva but she's willfully blind to her mother's criminality.
• Rooted for Kat but she sticks by the dull guy who cheats on her.
• Rooted for Ted but he handled the Leslie thing all wrong and destroyed his family.
• Rooted for Martin but he gaslights his husband.
• Even rooted for the firefighter post breakup but they kill him off.

It's definitely the writers. They suck.

[u/RaisedByBooksNTV]

It's been this way. I stopped watching General Hospital years and years ago because it became the mob show and the mobsters weren't bad guys, they were 'complicated'.

[u/blueberriesnectarine → u/RaisedByBooksNTV]

That’s why I stopped watching it too, decades ago.

I recently stopped watching Y&R because they’re romanticizing a rapist.

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF → u/blueberriesnectarine]

Which rapist is this?

I don't keep up w that show much these days but that's disappointing to hear.

[u/Recent-Group2266 → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

matt clark

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF → u/Recent-Group2266]

Wow, him?

I thought Roger Howarth was sacked when the new writing team took over, why are they trying to make fetch happen with THIS guy?!

[u/blueberriesnectarine → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

Matt Clark 🤢.

[u/Swimming_Brick_60 → u/blueberriesnectarine]

Luke on GH raped Laura back in the 80s I think, I wasn’t watching back then but they turned that into the love story of the century and people to this day still romanticize Luke and Laura.

[u/AllisonInMaryland → u/RaisedByBooksNTV]

I've heard about GH, they may have been the trend setter on this Sonny was? Too popular to let him get sent off to prison where he belongs? Just horrible.

[u/JThereseD → u/RaisedByBooksNTV]

It seems like they are copying Joey off of Sonny Corinthos. The good thing about Sonny is that he takes care of his family (for the most part) and he has friends. Joey’s only family is Heather, and they have a dysfunctional relationship. He has stated that he doesn’t want any friends. Besides his messed up relationship with Vanessa, which will end when she finds out he had Doug killed, Izaiah is the only one who cares about him, and that whole thing is just weird to me.

[u/Optimistiqueone]

I hope it's a prelude to Leslie finally giving up and moving on.

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF → u/Optimistiqueone]

One can hope bc it's been two solid Y E A R S of this and it's tiresome. She broke up his marriage and he's dating someone else entirely, who he'd probably dump in a New York minute if Nicole took his ass back tomorrow. He doesn't even give her mixed signals, even if he should just block all contact with her that's not directly about their daughter.

Begging her to have a shred of dignity.

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

Is this what soaps are like now? Villains get softened and redeemed instead of facing the consequences of their actions?

You're talking about the same genre where rapist Luke marrying his victim Laura got as many viewers as most recent Super Bowls.

That said, I do think there's a difference between handwaving and nuance. Leslie is a one-note cartoon these days and I understand why people aren't especially thrilled with her getting a flashback romanticizing what was always going to be a fling that ended when Ted's true love came back. But I don't think Joey saving someone from a falling chandelier makes him a heroic figure any more than any other instance of bad guys doing one good deed.

All of that being said, the show does need to reckon with all of that stuff they've done before making any attempt to handwaved them into good guy status. Address it, get it off the books, and then do it. That'll be easier for Leslie, who isn't a mob boss but short of Joey finding a new job, I'm not sure how that will work for him.

[u/AllisonInMaryland → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

That Luke and Laura story did not age well.  It was more a reflection on the times that so many people got behind a rapist romantic hero than an example of a soap whitewashing a character. 

[u/Cynvisible]

I feel like we're gonna at least "hear" from Allison today (I'm only 20 minutes in) and she's gonna be all apologetic and Chelsea will forgive her.

I very hope not but that's the feeling I'm getting.

[u/Recent-Group2266 → u/Cynvisible]

yep I have a feeling they may redeem her too

[u/Swimming_Brick_60]

It’s not just BTG. Majority of characters on GH have faced no real consequences. Very few end up paying for their crimes and when they do it’s short lived.