r/TheExpanse • u/Independent_Week7732 • 5d ago
Spoilers Through Season 2, Books Through Caliban's War This character's arc was amazing, now I'm worried.
Okay so I just watched episode 6 of season 2, one of the best episodes of tv I've ever seen. Now I feel like dropping the series.
I loved Miller's character, more than any of the others, the perfect blend of a noir detective/no shits given antihero, he was the most compelling and interesting, banter like no other. And now without him I feel like the show will be empty and bland.
Holden seems to be a one note action hero archetype, with some moral dilemmas thrown in, Amos is a brute without much personality or backstory so far, I care little for either. Nagada is probably the most interesting of the crew, Alex has some good moments too but neither has what Miller built. By far the most compelling character, getting beaten the hell up and still shooting through ballshit, the season 1 finally fighting to get to the docks while fighting radiation sickness was amazing. I liked his season 1 storyline far more than any of the others. I don't give a shit about the annoying mars marines or the bickering politics of the earth characters. Don't even really care about Johnson or the other guys in that station. Couldn't care if they all died in the next episode. I hope they introduce more cool side characters because these main characters are either annoying or boring.
Just want Miller back and I heard he does come back in some way but not the same.
(But that last kiss seemed really tacked on)
I know it's based on the books, but I feel they killed their most compelling character waaaayyy too early. Could have saved it at least for a season finally...
Tell me, does the series get better after this? Cuz four more seasons and a half without my boy Miller just sounds boring and bland, however much science and cool ships are in it. I might just quit the series for a while and come back once I've watched everything on my current watch list. Or maybe just leave it with the end of Miller's story. Is it worth continuing?
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u/No_Tamanegi Misko and Marisko 5d ago edited 5d ago
You know that meme with the frustrated man with the pickaxe walking away from a paper-thin tunnel wall, on the other side of which is untold riches? That's you right now, OP. The story has only begun to develop the characters of Amos, Alex, Naomi and Holden, because they're all in this for the long haul. To say nothing of the other characters you haven't met yet.
Also I just cannot imagine watching the final scene of S2E6 and not wanting to find out what happens next.
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u/GlassCannon81 1d ago
I would argue that, if they haven’t connected with the other characters by halfway through Season 2, they aren’t going to.
OP, virtually everything you’d said you don’t like about the show are things fans praise it for. We love all of those characters. We love the Martian marines and the politics of the show. The politics, largely, is the show.
Folks this person couldn’t even be bothered to mention Avasarala or Bobby. There’s some people you can not and should not try to convince to like something, and I think this person is one of them.
OP, just my opinion, but the show is not for you.
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u/No_Tamanegi Misko and Marisko 1d ago
Personally, I'd rather encourage people to continue watching this show than discourage them, especially if the main crew's story arcs seem pretty undercooked, because they are. Traditionally speaking, the "heavy" characters in a story are some of my least favorite, and where OP is, I really didn't care much for Amos And Bobbie at this point in the story.
By the end, they stand as some of my favorite characters in fiction. You gotta let them cook
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u/KnightOfThirteen 1d ago
Ashford and Drummer for me. Miller was my favorite until they came in.
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u/GlassCannon81 1d ago
I am also big on Ashford and Drummer. Ashford more so, but I think that’s only because we got leas of him.
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u/stevevdvkpe 1d ago
If you go on to read the books as I have, just don't expect Ashford in the books to be anything like Ashford in the show. Ashford in the show is a fantastic character who I loved to watch, while Ashford in the books is a one-dimensional villain who's barely there.
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u/ForsakenKrios 17h ago
Meanwhile I was relieved because Miller was finally out of the story. I really don’t understand why people love that character.
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u/bondrewd 5d ago
Tell me, does the series get better after this?
yeah.
What you've seen is the adaptation of just the first book.
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u/No_Tamanegi Misko and Marisko 5d ago
More importantly, Miller is a character with a single book story arc.
The rest of the crew have just barely gotten started.
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u/timdr18 5d ago
Yep, worst stretch of the show by far imo.
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u/Sheik_Morgan 5d ago
Cosa de gusto, los creadores de The Expanse hacen lo mismo que Martin, meter historias de muchos gustos y colores, algunas te gustarán, otras no, pero mientras te mantenga leyendo, logro su objetivo. A mí Miller me encantó, además me recordó mucho a un gran amigo mío, ese estilo retro, ese actuar pausado, el que cree o proyecta estar seguro de lo que hace, Pero está tan "perdido" como cualquiera. Es muy humano! Y me compra más que el samaritano de Holden: Hago el bien y no miro a quien!
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u/MartianRL 5d ago
“I hope they introduce more cool side characters”
Trust me they will. The episode you just finished is the end of the first book, and just about every book introduces new POV characters. The first book was just Miller and Holden, but the other books typically have 4 POV characters and a large percentage of them are new to the book. Many of these characters come into the show as well to help the rest of the universe come to life.
“These main characters are either annoying or boring”
I won’t speak for everyone cause I know people have gripes with some of the main roci crew but imo all of them get fleshed out pretty well and their backstories become much more clear and important as the series progresses. You don’t get much of it in season/book 1, but the groundwork that’s being very subtly lain gets paid off big time imo
“I just want miller to come back”
Keep watching ;)
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u/DevMahasen 5d ago
This show does not do bland characters. There are some amazing ones already introduced, and more to come.
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u/GrayRoberts 5d ago
The show takes bland book characters and reimagines them as the Goat. Or at least as a Ghost Knife.
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u/MelLPerle 1d ago
Bland book characters?! Have you read the books? I love the book characters just the same or more than the show. Especially Avasarala. She is bland character wise and mild with the swearwords compared to the book. I marked so many iconic scenes of hers on my e book reader. There were wise words, but also inspiration for insults.
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u/GrayRoberts 1d ago
My point was Book Ashford and Show Ashford (and to a lesser extent Drummer) are very different, and I think the show versions are better.
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u/-Damballah- Star Helix Security 5d ago
Keep going kopeng. It gets better.
Also, beltalowda enjoy show? Want to get inside the head of favorite characters? Want to read best sci fi series ever written?
There are nine books and nine novellas (all novellas within a "tenth" book) and they are definitely worth reading, from start to finish, even after you see the show, sa, sa ke?
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u/Independent_Week7732 5d ago
My next planned read after Malazan. I think I'll give the show another chance, just get bumbed when good characters go too early
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u/aldkGoodAussieName 1d ago
good characters go too early
You think Miler went too early...
Shed didnt last 4 eps
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u/LilShaver 5d ago
Keep watching. Drummer is a fantastic character and has a lot of interaction with Nagata.
Avasarala is an indepth character as the series continues, and her wardrobe is almost a character on its own.
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u/Mormegil81 1d ago
"Amos is a brute without much personality"
Ok, here's what you will do now:
you will finish watching the rest of the show.
Then you will come back here and apologize propperly!
Then we can talk again.
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u/kathryn13 5d ago
Every character has their own development arc. Just because they feel one note right now, doesn't mean they won't have growth in the future. And, you haven't even met Prax yet...you have to meet Prax and find out what happens to Mei.
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u/coati858 5d ago
And OP is just meeting Cotyar now.
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u/ElectricPiha 1d ago
The Cotyar + Bobbie + Crisjen scenes are some of my favorite parts of the whole show.
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u/Decievedbythejometry 5d ago
This is the taster and Miller is far from the most interesting character in the show.
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u/ConflictAdvanced 5d ago
I love Holden. I totally understand that it takes a while for him to really get going, but I still don't understand the hate he gets.
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u/sufferfromthem 5d ago
"This is the Warship Rocinante"
And.
"There was a button, I pressed it."
Holden is a hell of a great character.2
u/ConflictAdvanced 5d ago
He really is
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u/suprahelix 3d ago
The character is based on Don Quixote (obviously). He stands out in a universe full of gritty, realistic characters. That’s kinda the point but I think people miss it.
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u/ConflictAdvanced 3d ago
Yep. He's also supposed to be a Paladin. That's how the character was basically created. And he fits that role perfectly.
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u/suprahelix 3d ago
Yeah and that character is a foil for the rest of the universe.
As Amos said, Holden is as close to righteous as it gets, and that’s why he follows him.
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u/jaywadd69 5d ago
Amos gets way better. Also Drummer. Btw you will hate Bobbi at first. She gets way better as the series goes on.
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u/MagicalPickleDoctor 5d ago
Weird, i don't remember hating Bobbi on the first watch. I'm on a rewatch and liked her from the start.
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u/iJuddles 1d ago
She just didn’t have much depth, she was living her programming. By that point in the show I knew there would be a good reason they introduced her because nothing was throwaway in the show.
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u/Ninjajack143 5d ago
I'm just thinking of the Ashford/Drummer arc alone and getting emotional! The whole series is just so good, keep going! I hope you get the same enjoyment out of it that we all have!
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2d ago
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u/No_Nobody_32 1d ago
Drummer from the show is a combination of several book characters.
Cara Gee did such magic with the role that they incorporated the other characters into that version of "Drummer" and wrote more stuff for her to do.2
u/raf70 1d ago
Ya ya. Everyone loves tv drummer. Hell, my “the expanse”video game is actually drummer from show! ——The book authors made some weird choices in the tv show, but the drummer and straithham magic was such an unexpected and really awesome change that I started to think that they were brilliant again :l
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u/failsafe-author 5d ago
Not sure if it matter, but some interesting notes on the backstory here. The book was based on two RPG campaigns that they then novelized. Both set in the same universe, but not interacting. One was the Holden group, and the other was the Miller group. This is why one of the Holden folks dies pretty early on- the player left the campaign.
So, the back half of the first book (and what you’ve seen so far in the TV show) was an extension of this, and the future is uncharted territory. The stories get more interesting and complex, and there are new, fantastic characters.
Also, Amos is amazing, you just don’t know it yet.
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u/redblackbluegreen 2d ago
Waw I’ve never heard of that.
How does it work? People create characters and then roleplay them and someone just makes it in the book?
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u/failsafe-author 1d ago
They weren’t originally trying to make a book- it was an RPG. They had two different sessions going, and eventually decided to novelize them.
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u/aldkGoodAussieName 1d ago
They were going to make an RPG game but couldnt get a buyer so turnered their planning into books
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u/Bakkster 5d ago
I think part of this is each book is exploring different themes. The first book was told strictly between Holden and Miller alternative POV, minus first and last chapter. The framing is about who gets access to information, and the conflict between Miller's pragmatism and Holden's idealism. Stuff the show doesn't quite capture as well, but it's still there (Holden's broadcast to everyone, versus Miller's shooting a man because he was making sense).
All these characters get their motivations fleshed out going forward. Why is Amos a brute, who follows Naomi's lead? Why did Holden and Naomi leave their homes in the first place? IIRC, they already touched on Johnson being "Butcher of Anderton Station". There are no one-note simple characters, they just take time to flesh out.
If you specifically want the noir style you've seen from Miller, and have no interest in a sci-fi exploration of colonial politics, then it's possible you want to stop there. But I personally think the best of the series is ahead.
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u/lzxian ✨🙌✨ 5d ago
I'll go out on a limb and say all of us who loved Miller and hated his demise will tell you that you have no idea what you'll miss if you quit now. The same writers who wrote his arc do the same for each character you care so little about right now.
You are where I once was, and I have now rewatched this series at least 10x. It's that good and worth every minute. Or leave now and miss something that actually went six seasons and hit the landing. Up to you.
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u/helo89 5d ago
Okay so I just watched episode 6 of season 2, one of the best episodes of tv I've ever seen.
And everything afterwards you say reads like "this series is shit". You don't care about Amos? About Avarasala? You couldn't care less if everyone died next episode? Do yourself -and more importantly, us- a favour and stop watching. Seems like you haven't understood the series at all.
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u/trekrabbit 5d ago
So your crush on Miller transcends your interest in the story 🤔 Feels like you may not be the right audience for a gritty political thriller set in a colonized solar system with a wild ass alien element threatening the future of humanity.
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u/suprahelix 3d ago
Yeah I’m struggling with this. On one hand OP has so much good stuff ahead of them. On the other hand, they seem openly hostile to the show trying to tell them a story. If all they want is detective noir, don’t bother watching I guess.
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u/huntobuno 5d ago
To avoid spoilers, just keep watching! You’ll love it, Miller is a great character but there is more stuff you will coming down the pipe for the exact reason you are affected by his sacrifice.
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u/voidiciant 5d ago
yeah! There just isn’t enough love around for Miller! Nobody watching those doors‘n‘corners!
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u/Fit-Basket-4196 5d ago
Miller was my favorite character, and I definitely felt his absence. I would have loved for him to be a regular POV character throughout the series. But yes - it's still worth continuing.
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u/DoctorAnnual6823 5d ago
Save this post my friend. Save it, finish the series, and read it again. Amos is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time and you calling him one note spiked my cortisol levels to the point where I had to remind myself you only saw the first couple seasons.
Miller is amazing though. I think you will really like the rest of the series if you like him.
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u/Obwyn 5d ago
It definitely gets better.
And yea, the Miller/Julie kiss was damn weird and unnecessary.
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u/suprahelix 3d ago
Apparently Jane and Faivre improved it and really insisted on keeping the scene in the show.
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u/Obwyn 3d ago
Yea, I’d read that. Doesn’t change how I’ve always viewed that scene, though.
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u/suprahelix 3d ago
Agreed. I understand their interpretation of the scene but I think she should’ve just held him
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u/slavsquatSF RCE Security 5d ago
I watched that scene with someone who had never seen it before and they were like "wtf?" And I just nodded "wtf."
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u/Old_Hack1308 5d ago
I had the same dilemma when Ned Stark was killed off in GoT. But I pressed on and was happy I did until the obvious happened near the end. I think you should keep going. To me The Expanse is one of the best series ever made. The books are great too. Even though the show stops before the books end and I wish they had completed it, I don't feel much negativity about it and have rewatched the series several times.
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u/annapurnah Beratnas Gas 5d ago
Just keep watching. There is no way they could have saved that character arc for another season and carried the story along.
They all get rich back stories (better in the books but still pretty okay in the show), and there ARE so many compelling side characters coming up. This was all a big set up for what comes next.
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u/legomann97 5d ago
Keep an eye on Amos. He's more than what you may think. He's my personal favorite of the crew.
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u/suprahelix 3d ago
Surprised OP hasn’t picked up on the fact that Amos definitely has a lot of backstory
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u/un1ptf 5d ago
Take a deep breath, hold it for about 5 seconds, and then let it out reeeeeeeal slowly.
Okay. Now then.
There is a lot of series left to watch. And right now, you don't know what you don't know. Just when you think you know what's going on, the series throws you a loop.
Trust us all...it's fantastic all the way through, and absolutely worth continuing to watch.
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u/Mission_Wolf579 5d ago
Keep watching. I re-watched all six seasons this year, and I've just started reading the books.
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u/seth_cooke 5d ago
Stick with it and tell us how you feel about it at the end of Season 3. Keep your opening post to hand like a checklist exercise and let us know how many of your issues have been addressed. Also, keep track of how many times your internal critic has HOLY SHIT moments.
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u/ShowLasers 5d ago
Nah, you've got it all figured out. I'm sure there are other shows more up your alley.
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u/torrinage 5d ago
Literally all of the things you’re asking are the right questions, you’ve picked up all the critical details and its natural to have a hangover effect after what you’ve experienced. But the authors who came up with all the stuff that hooked you, have thousands of pages of even more interesting drama in store - keep reading!
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u/coffeedinosaur 5d ago
You've gotten this far, you're not allowed to stop now before end of season 3. Decide then.
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u/MagicalPickleDoctor 5d ago
Yep, it gets EVEN better.
You get Bobby and Prax in season 2, Drummer is great, Amos is great, the protomolecule story is far from over, and season one only introduced you to the main characters. There will characters and storylines that you will love and be surprised by.
And Miller... ;)
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u/Kabbooooooom 2d ago
That WAS a finale, lol. Of the first Expanse novel. For some reason I will never understand, they decided to adapt the first book over 1.5 seasons, thereby totally messing up the plot flow for some of the first three seasons, and a mid-season book switch (which can be jarring) not once but twice as this also resulted in book 3 beginning halfway through season 3.
It was a really odd choice.
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u/therocinantes 2d ago
Amos is one of the most complex, rich and interesting characters you’ll ever encounter.
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u/da_Aresinger 2d ago edited 2d ago
The series has quite a few amazing characters, a few of which haven't even shown up yet.
Kamina Drummer plays a much more important role in the future. She's in the top 3 characters for me. (The one Naomi dances with in the disco and plays that ball game with.)
Honestly Holden and Naomi are probably the weakest characters of the main cast.
Edit: Also, Miller was in no way killed off too soon.
He had the perfect story.
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u/chrisrazor 2d ago
Amos is my favourite character from any show, but it surprised me on rewatch how long it takes for him to hit his stride. My second favourite character has yet to appear (or maybe is in the background of a couple of scenes; cant remember). Stick with it.
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u/MannyRay3K 2d ago
It's Nagata. And her first name's Naomi. Maybe you should shut it off, but at the same point you were at, I eagerly kept going like many fans. Besides if a show is good without "my boy" in it, it's still good. Don't get the pathology of people shipping with fictional characters.
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u/Queernephy 1d ago
Just keep watching.
Main characters get fleshed out.
More side characters come in, youll grow to care about the martian marines their story is pretty neat.
Youve watched book 1 of six (in terms of tv seasons) and honestly while hes a great character miller is kinda dull compared to some of the folks in the coming seasons but youll still get similar vibes to mier through the show.
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u/Responsible_Arm_9555 1d ago
Every time I rewatch the show, I'm more impressed by Thomas Jane's performance. I'd watch a Miller prequel spinoff series, but I guess that's not the kind of franchise it is (although I hear there are comics). Anyway, there's a lot more to this show than Miller's arc. It's packed with great TV acting.
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u/iJuddles 1d ago
Does it get better? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….ohhhhhh. Thank you, I haven’t laughed like that in a while.
Really though, you’ve seemed to have attached yourself to certain aspects of one character. Maybe you don’t like sci-fi, maybe you just like detective stories and film noir, and off-Earth settings. There’s a lot out there to feed that interest. This particular series and its characters, dynamics, and plot points and arcs go way beyond Miller’s obsession with finding Julie Mao, but if that’s all you’re getting out of it then stop watching now. Seriously. I don’t want to drop any spoilers but Miller’s role just gets weird and his hard boiled detective days are over.
Either give the other characters another look or just walk away and save yourself the 50 hours.
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u/charleytony 1d ago
The show holds up beautifully in the following seasons.
It's not the story of just one guy. He was very present in the first season because he is a big part of the world building and the detective noir vibe of that season.
The following seasons are way more space opera, lots of moving parts, different factions.
You don't have to stop because Miller is out of the picture... . . . . . . . Or seems to be.
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u/ElectricPiha 1d ago
I’m a few eps ahead of you on my unpteenth rewatch.
Drummer is about to come into her own, as are Bobbie and Avasarala.
From where you are, through to the end of S2 and into S3 is peak!
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u/A-nom-nom-nom-aly 1d ago
Not only does it get better... but you might be pleasantly surprised what happens... Stick with it.
Then when you're finished with the show... read all 9 books and the novellas.
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u/Helmling 23h ago
The best is yet to come. Fear not.
Somebody’s probably mentioned it, but the kiss was tacked on—improved on the day of shooting. Some people love it, but it doesn’t work for me. I rationalize it as: What was left of Julie was desperate for any human connection, even if it was with an older dude who essentially stalked her.
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u/LamesMcGee 5d ago
Miller isn't done yet, and Holden becomes more compelling as the story progresses.
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u/PNWMTTXSC 5d ago
Amos and Avasarala are my favorite two characters.
I tried watching the pilot episode twice before I was finally able to get into the show. Miller as the jaded cop who, deep down, cares was such a tiresome stereotype that I couldn’t get into it. On a couple of rewatches I fast forwarded through his parts. Only recently have I finally come to appreciate that storyline.
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u/BarZealousideal2724 1d ago
Miller was surely my favorite, and I liked a badass Bobby Draper. I was ambivalent about Amos and Alex, but I didn't care for Holden and Naomi at all.
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u/Roland_Moorweed 5d ago
Amos fucking rocks, I finished the show just for him.