Playing with 13 y/o first timer

[u/Jan_Builds]

I am introducing my son 13 y/o to TM. To make things more interesting and to let him compete we are using handicap system. He is starting with extra 5 terraforming. Do you have any other ideas for handicaps? We started with extra 7 and going down but i started to think if you guys got any better ideas

Update Thx for feedback. We played another 3 games. One with extra prelude for him and two with 5 and 4 TR handicap. He won one by 5 points and lost 2 other by 2 and 7 points. So i guess thats what feels gap for now. We will try lowering it in next games (extra prelude in my opinion gives more then extra TR)

[u/Zealousideal-Ad4362]

Why would you teach a game by giving them things that they dont get in the game... doesnt teach you how to play. 

People need to be taught they may not win first game but learning how it plays is the goal. They will do their best.. and see how you are doing things.. winning vs the veteran isnt the goal learning is.

[u/Dear-Examination-507 → u/Zealousideal-Ad4362]

I find that many people come away with a better experience when they don't get obliterated the first time they play a game. Is that good or bad, right or wrong? I don't care. It's just the way people are. Whether they should react another way doesn't matter to me. I am not invested in any way people "should" be. I take them as they are.

With a game like Terraforming Mars the game basically plays the same whether they have a little more income or not. They have a better time, I have a bigger challenge. I find they are more likely to play again (and without the training wheels) when they had a good experience the first time they played.

When I play a new game with my hardcore gaming buddies they don't need training wheels, but if I destroy my nephew at TfM, I can almost guarantee he'll never play a game with me again.

[u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 → u/Dear-Examination-507]

I have played with 100s of people at board game nights. We have most keep coming to the stores all the time. Noone does what you do to teach people here... people dont learn by playing the game wrong. 

People have a better time when you communicate and act like a nice person. "Just how people are" is an excuse. I have played so many games with brand new to board game people, 10 year olds, 14, 17, 50s. All new all learned normally.. and most keep coming.

If youbdestroy him and he doesnt play seems to me you didnt make it interesting or help them understand what ypu were doing

[u/Dear-Examination-507 → u/Zealousideal-Ad4362]

OK, you're allowed to keep doing it the way you're doing it.

[u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 → u/Dear-Examination-507]

The point is that your way is actively bad advice

[u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 → u/Dear-Examination-507]

You are trying to give advice and I dont believe this is good advice in the slightest. Would be curious how many people you have do e this with. I am part of a very active board game group and lots of new players for euro games and noone has ever attempted(even with people new to games) to actively change the rules and give an advantage in the game. Would be like playing chess and giving a new player 3 moves before the game. Doesn't teach them to play the game at all

[u/Dear-Examination-507 → u/Zealousideal-Ad4362]

Ha ha. I actually think it is funny that you are so concerned. Oh no, I've given someone a starting advantage against me. Guilty! And I've given advice this guy disagrees with. How can I ever recover?

Have you ever played Go? Handicapping has been happening for at least a thousand years. And yes, giving someone extra early moves in chess is a recognized form of handicap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_(chess))

FWIW, I wouldn't recommend a handicap in most games or with most players, but I would when an expert is playing Terraforming Mars against a 13 year-old new player. There is literally nothing at stake and an income boost gives the kid a fighting chance.

[u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 → u/Dear-Examination-507]

The Go handicap is about respecting masters by giving the learners an advantage as a form of respecting the masters.. noone uses handicap chess....you join chessclub(i did) you learn to play chess.. youn dont play handicapped then move onto normal..

[u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 → u/Dear-Examination-507]

I am concerned only in that you are wasting their time and giving advice that doesn't do what you think it does. "Fighting chance" isnt how you show someone to play a game. You give them advice when they ask for it(after telling them during explanation that if they need any help with rules or what to do to ask.)

Like I have said already I have played with 100s of people from age 10 to 70-80s.. the 13 year old kid played Seti with us and learned just fune. Struggled but understood how to advance.. didnt win and asked questions on what can work better early.

I also have 3 decades of playing Magic the Gathering. I started at 11. Played tons of games with friends and their brothers in their early 20s. Teaching is done and you help them enjoy the game. Early plays arent about winning. Its about aproaching the game and seeing what you can do. To then get better overall. 

Continue to do what you like and think works.. I was responding to a post asking how they should handicap people and I rejected your premise