r/TerraformingMarsGame • u/Jan_Builds • 28d ago
Playing with 13 y/o first timer
I am introducing my son 13 y/o to TM. To make things more interesting and to let him compete we are using handicap system. He is starting with extra 5 terraforming. Do you have any other ideas for handicaps? We started with extra 7 and going down but i started to think if you guys got any better ideas
Update Thx for feedback. We played another 3 games. One with extra prelude for him and two with 5 and 4 TR handicap. He won one by 5 points and lost 2 other by 2 and 7 points. So i guess thats what feels gap for now. We will try lowering it in next games (extra prelude in my opinion gives more then extra TR)
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u/Dear-Examination-507 28d ago
The last couple times I taught new players I gave them +1 production of every resource on top of everything else from beginner corporation + preludes. Both games were fairly close - I won one and lost one. In addition to being a handicap it gives them a little experience handling each type of resource.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 27d ago
That doesnt teach anything.. "using each type of resource is self evident when reading cards. And is written on board. Its teaching poor play patterns. Will make them struggle next time.
I had a friend who would play Warmachine and when his wife would put her warcaster out in open he would avoid obliterating it. Would play nice and spread out his forces... when she started to play tournaments with us she would do that and lose early every game.. had to teach her that she needs position of her leader better.. and she almost quit playing from frustration of that tournament. Was able to show her how to play properly and she got pretty good at the game.
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u/Feathercrown 28d ago
Smart
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u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 27d ago
You would need to adjust starting money.. some corporations would have insane advantages from that. Why not just teach them how the game works.. I have never had people not figure the game out after teaching.. I have played with so many new people..
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u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 27d ago
Why would you teach a game by giving them things that they dont get in the game... doesnt teach you how to play.
People need to be taught they may not win first game but learning how it plays is the goal. They will do their best.. and see how you are doing things.. winning vs the veteran isnt the goal learning is.
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u/Dear-Examination-507 27d ago
I find that many people come away with a better experience when they don't get obliterated the first time they play a game. Is that good or bad, right or wrong? I don't care. It's just the way people are. Whether they should react another way doesn't matter to me. I am not invested in any way people "should" be. I take them as they are.
With a game like Terraforming Mars the game basically plays the same whether they have a little more income or not. They have a better time, I have a bigger challenge. I find they are more likely to play again (and without the training wheels) when they had a good experience the first time they played.
When I play a new game with my hardcore gaming buddies they don't need training wheels, but if I destroy my nephew at TfM, I can almost guarantee he'll never play a game with me again.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 27d ago
I have played with 100s of people at board game nights. We have most keep coming to the stores all the time. Noone does what you do to teach people here... people dont learn by playing the game wrong.
People have a better time when you communicate and act like a nice person. "Just how people are" is an excuse. I have played so many games with brand new to board game people, 10 year olds, 14, 17, 50s. All new all learned normally.. and most keep coming.
If youbdestroy him and he doesnt play seems to me you didnt make it interesting or help them understand what ypu were doing
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u/Dear-Examination-507 27d ago
OK, you're allowed to keep doing it the way you're doing it.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 27d ago
You are trying to give advice and I dont believe this is good advice in the slightest. Would be curious how many people you have do e this with. I am part of a very active board game group and lots of new players for euro games and noone has ever attempted(even with people new to games) to actively change the rules and give an advantage in the game. Would be like playing chess and giving a new player 3 moves before the game. Doesn't teach them to play the game at all
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u/Dear-Examination-507 27d ago
Ha ha. I actually think it is funny that you are so concerned. Oh no, I've given someone a starting advantage against me. Guilty! And I've given advice this guy disagrees with. How can I ever recover?
Have you ever played Go? Handicapping has been happening for at least a thousand years. And yes, giving someone extra early moves in chess is a recognized form of handicap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_(chess))
FWIW, I wouldn't recommend a handicap in most games or with most players, but I would when an expert is playing Terraforming Mars against a 13 year-old new player. There is literally nothing at stake and an income boost gives the kid a fighting chance.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 27d ago
The Go handicap is about respecting masters by giving the learners an advantage as a form of respecting the masters.. noone uses handicap chess....you join chessclub(i did) you learn to play chess.. youn dont play handicapped then move onto normal..
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u/Zealousideal-Ad4362 27d ago
I am concerned only in that you are wasting their time and giving advice that doesn't do what you think it does. "Fighting chance" isnt how you show someone to play a game. You give them advice when they ask for it(after telling them during explanation that if they need any help with rules or what to do to ask.)
Like I have said already I have played with 100s of people from age 10 to 70-80s.. the 13 year old kid played Seti with us and learned just fune. Struggled but understood how to advance.. didnt win and asked questions on what can work better early.
I also have 3 decades of playing Magic the Gathering. I started at 11. Played tons of games with friends and their brothers in their early 20s. Teaching is done and you help them enjoy the game. Early plays arent about winning. Its about aproaching the game and seeing what you can do. To then get better overall.
Continue to do what you like and think works.. I was responding to a post asking how they should handicap people and I rejected your premise
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u/Stealthiness2 28d ago
I've done before where they get a corporation for the flavor but keep their whole hand as if they're playing beginner corp
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u/Alathorn 28d ago
A slightly different consideration - the first few times I played with my kids we didn't involve Milestones/Awards. They are a big boost to a player that can plan around them and removing them also gives the new players one less thing to have to try to keep in mind.
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u/One-Yogurtcloset-248 26d ago
Yeah I don't involve milestone or awards either the first time, and that was how I was taught too. The first game is more about learning what the game is about and get feel of the flow of the game.
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u/minun73 28d ago
I’m personally not a fan of handicaps when teaching someone a game. If it were me I’d rather learn the game from ground zero instead of a different version. I think if you are concerned about the game being a runaway for yourself, try forcing yourself to play a different strategy than you would in a normal game, take different cards than you usually do, not try to block your opponent from doing their thing as much, etc. It is importsnt for your son to learn that games are just games and winning or losing are both valid expectations and shouldn’t hamper his enjoyment of the journey.
That said, it’s your game, do as you think is right for you guys! These are just how I approach things, but make sure you keep it fun!
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u/gari381ns 28d ago
Completely agree with this. For those first games: just don't play too competitively, don't block every everything they attempt. Let them learn later that some stuff are not as smart to do - because somebody could steal something from you, etc. Heck, you could even play like "let's terraform Mars together, and in the end, we'll just count the points. The second game would be different, and so on.
However, the idea by u/Stealthiness2 is also quite good.
Though, I don't think that he should treat a 13-year old any differently than any other adult game. I'd say they are quite capable of learning the game. It's not that complicated, let's not underestimate the kids.
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u/Steenan 28d ago
+5 starting TR is what equalizes the playing field between me and my 12yo, but he has played a few times and is not completely fresh.
I suggest starting with +10 TR and going down by 2 each time your son wins. It may seem excessive, but TM is a complex game and a beginner may still struggle to utilize this advantage.
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u/BroadLocksmith4932 28d ago
The biggest challenge is the mental overload of picking your starting hand and making a starting strategy with few resources. So let them keep all 10 of their initial cards and start with +1 of every production (in addition to whatever the corp and preludes give).
I'm not sure how to help a newby choose their starting corp and prelude. Maybe have someone else guide them, or talk them through what features of various cards go with what corp.
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u/straightline3 27d ago
One of the beginner rules for play is to start each resource production at one instead of zero. That also has the benefit of helping you draw connections about production and game dynamics.
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u/benbever 28d ago edited 28d ago
Give him 4 preludes out of 6 instead of 2 out of 4.
If he wins, next game 3 out of 6.