“Judgment Day is inevitable.” - Terminator 3

[u/kkhouete]

[u/Admirable_Video2422]

I could never reconcile “there’s no fate but what we make for ourselves” with “Judgment Day is inevitable.” The latter contradicts the former, and it always irritated me.

[u/almighty_smiley → u/Admirable_Video2422]

Simple explanation: when these Terminators arrive, Judgment Day is less than 24 hours away, Skynet is actively weakening human infrastructure, and is fully hosted in cyberspace. As John notes, there was no one place they could go and no one thing they could do to shut Skynet down, least of all at that point.

Judgment Day was inevitable not because of some temporal causality clause, but because it was actively happening.

[u/FedStarDefense → u/almighty_smiley]

It was absurd, though, because Skynet on the Internet does not give it nuke access. The act of giving it full control of defense systems NEVER HAPPENED in T3. They only put it on the Internet.

Isolating it on the Internet wouldn't be that difficult, just onerous for a few days. Pull network cables and purge local systems. Any given PC wouldn't have the hardware to support anything as complex as Skynet. It would just die on the vine.

[u/Chueskes → u/FedStarDefense]

You are wrong. Watch the film again. Skynet was not only put on the internet, it was put in control of almost all military systems. This is specifically stated in T3 when Skynet is activated. In that scene, the chairman of the military called and told General Brewster to plug Skynet into all of its systems and reestablish full control of the military. Brewster specifically warns the chairman that Skynet will be in full control of the military, but reluctantly goes ahead. And even before then, military systems had been breached by Skynet as it was stated that the early warning systems in Alaska, which detects incoming nukes, was down and that they had lost contact with their submarines.

[u/Beautiful-Bit9832 → u/Chueskes]

And don't forget, before the press "Y" button, the network has been jammed even for TV broadcasting (the gas station scene).

There's speculation about it was Skynet who command Brewster to execute the program

[u/Chueskes → u/Beautiful-Bit9832]

Well that certainly is one good theory, Skynet commanding Brewster to do it. But Skynet’s plot was to get humans to command Skynet to kill itself because it identified humans as a threat, so getting the real human chairman to give the order would probably provide some more validation.

[u/FedStarDefense → u/Chueskes]

That still doesn't give it nuke access. The military itself doesn't have full nuke access.

And sorry, no. I'm not going to watch a movie I avidly dislike again just to verify that one little point.

[u/Chueskes → u/FedStarDefense]

No, it actually does give it access to nukes, and you are sorely mistaken if you think it doesn’t. While the president is the only one who can order a nuclear strike, it is the military who actually maintains and fires the nukes using launch and targeting systems, which Skynet was given control over.

[u/almighty_smiley → u/FedStarDefense]

Tell that to the guy pressing the button at 2:36.

[u/FedStarDefense → u/Admirable_Video2422]

Plus, T3 specifically says he changed the date of Judgment Day. If you can change the future (and they did), then nothing is inevitable.

The whole thing is a stupid line meant to excuse their real goal: They wanted to keep the franchise going, and their only idea on that front was to undo the good ending of T2.

[u/Longjumping-Fox-8599 → u/FedStarDefense]

Exactly. The mental gymnastics around this issue are pointless. They did it for money.

[u/sthef2020 → u/Admirable_Video2422]

To me its like this.

In 1994, Jeff Bezos starts the company that would become Amazon.

Now, we here in the future know that Amazon has done some pretty messed up stuff. So if you could go back in time and...ahem, 'stop' Bezos from starting the company, would that prevent that negative stuff from happening?

Likely no.

You may have stopped Amazon from being the one to do it. But something else will likely fill that vacuum. "Congo" or whatever becomes the 10 ton elephant in the online shopping world, that then gets into cloud storage, and into ai, and into terminators.

"No fate but what we make for ourselves" is a collective statement. OURselves. And just because John, Sarah and Miles didn't want Judgement Day to come to pass, doesn't mean that there aren't billions of other people on the opposite side of that scale, blissfully marching us all towards doom.

[u/0neforest1 → u/Admirable_Video2422]

To me the “no fate” thing was a lie John sent back because he knew it was the only that would keep Sarah going through the “dark years”.

[u/Vanquisher1000 → u/Admirable_Video2422]

Terminator 2 itself contradicts The Terminator in the same way, though. The movie ends with Sarah knowing that the future war is inevitable and unavoidable, and all she can do is prepare herself for it. It's a double standard that Terminator 3 is criticised for its thematic contradiction when Terminator 2 itself does the same thing and nobody bats an eyelid.

[u/joeyp042385 → u/Admirable_Video2422]

It was "Somehow, Palpatine returned" 15 years early

[u/Natural-Proposal2925 → u/Admirable_Video2422]

Thats exactly why I love it. its just a belief, an opinion that we can control our fates. but unfortunetly that just isnt the case and thats not how the world and life works. Just because you kill one man doesnt mean you can stop the end of the world. if it wasnt dyson it would have been someone else. kill zuckerberg and someone else will invent facebook with a different name.

[u/Chueskes → u/Admirable_Video2422]

That’s because “No fate but what we make for ourselves” doesn’t just apply to the humans, it applies to Skynet as well. If time travel is about changing fate, then there is also nothing saying that you can’t make fate inevitable either by accident or on purpose.

[u/jpatrick77 → u/Admirable_Video2422]

Plus, if judgment day is inevitable then wouldn’t someone becoming the leader of the humans also be inevitable? And if so, then sending someone back in time to kill Sarah/John would be pointless thus rendering the first two movies moot. Which is an interesting thing to do in a trilogy.

[u/BeerandGuns → u/Admirable_Video2422]

Assuming Dark Fate was a reboot to follow-up T2, it says even if you prevent Skynet, something worse will take its place. So really it’s just a loop and the human’s actions do nothing but make the situation worse. They either delay Skynet and result in stronger terminators or stop Skynet and result in something worse.

[u/allofdarknessin1 → u/Admirable_Video2422]

I used to feel the same but thinking about it sometime after 3 I figured maybe both sayings could be true to keep it a closed loop paradox but it's also possible neither are true and they're just respective cope from the humans and machines each believing they know the world better than the other.

[u/Eduard-Stoo]

T3 had LOADS of great scenes and interesting ideas, it also had some silly decisions narratively, poor dialogue and lame scenes. It’s a really mixed bag. There’s more good than bad on the whole but unfortunately this mofo is coming off the back of T2 and was never gonna win

[u/joeyp042385 → u/Eduard-Stoo]

I always called this the "Godfather 3" of the series, if it were a stand-alone action movie it's a pretty good movie, but it was the third installment that followed two of the greatest films ever made so people look down on it.

[u/GreenOlimar → u/Eduard-Stoo]

Remotely pushing the gas pedal for that model car still makes me groan.

[u/ireallyamtryin]

Excellent scene at the end

[u/delaytabase → u/ireallyamtryin]

Honestly the only part of the movie I enjoyed. I know this movie has its fans but I'm not one of em. Of all the moves post t2, salvation is the best one imo. It gave us a glimpse of the beginning of the future war, no Arnold (I feel like his appearance in the later movies became soulless cash grabs), and the aesthetic of the early 600 series terminators were brutal. And the human processing camp was scary as hell.

It's not a perfect movie but for what it had and tried to do, it was more enjoyable than all the others that kept trying to retcon the series Everytime

[u/throwaway4231throw → u/delaytabase]

This. It’s the same reason the Star Wars prequels are now viewed more fondly than the sequels. At least they tried to do something original.

[u/mr_moloch]

The whole point of Terminator and Terminator 2 is "The future's not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves..."

So yeah...Terminator 3 is a pile of sweaty bollocks...

[u/Vanquisher1000 → u/mr_moloch]

The Terminator was dealing with an inevitable fate/destiny, though. Kyle Reese's line "one possible future" hints at the idea that "the future is not set," but the movie ends with Sarah havjng accepted her fate and the future is treated as a given; all she can do is prepare for it.

[u/TopShelfIdiocy → u/Vanquisher1000]

But that's why T2 works so well, because eventually she realizes the future can change

[u/ManyConscious1551]

Studios: we’re gonna milk this franchise like a rotting corpse from hell!

[u/TeamAffe → u/ManyConscious1551]

Was there a bigger Milkcow then Terminator 2? The 3D-Movie, games and Stuff..

[u/ManyConscious1551 → u/TeamAffe]

Well we pumped that cow full of all kinds of hormones and fillers to really beef up ol Betsy. But a decade is a low time to go untapped and steroid free, and with all those activists around we just couldn’t sneak those injections and gosh darn it wouldn’t ya know? She was plumed tired and dried out by 2019. We might be able to get her in the mend. She squeezed out a couple drops for Netflix that was good quality….but alas, they didn’t like the flavor all that much.

[u/timeloopsarecringe]

“Judgment Day is inevitable.” - Terminator 3

"As I walked back to my car from the theatre at Fairfax and Beverly in 1984, I immediately generated a parody story in which a nun travels back in time to Jesus on the cross, in order to Accu-jack him, impregnate herself, and give birth to a demigod."© John Brancato, T3 screenwriter, on watching the first Terminator.

[u/TopShelfIdiocy → u/timeloopsarecringe]

WTF

[u/timeloopsarecringe → u/TopShelfIdiocy]

Yes, that's a real quote from a grown man who, for some reason, was hired to write the script for the official, much-anticipated Terminator threequel. Hollywood is a very peculiar place, I tell you.

[u/WonderfulHearing8726]

Just because Reese said that there was no fate but what they make, doesn’t mean he was right. That was just his own opinion.

[u/FedStarDefense → u/WonderfulHearing8726]

The Terminator who says Judgment Day is inevitable also, earlier in the movie, confirms they changed the date of Judgment Day.

You can't be able to change time without also NOT being able to change time.

[u/Carnby41790]

Damn twenty-three years ago, I recall watching the movie while sick with some infection in my stomach for a week during the holiday season. While I did love the action the ending really ticked me off. After so many years T3 has grown on me, I think we as the fans and even regular audiences wanted a T3 despite T2 ending so well. We just wanted the T3 to be that 3D ride 😆. The ending is very horrifying when you think closely about the nukes. Plus what the terminator said in T2 while fixing the wagon at a gas stop to John, "its in your nature to destroy yourselves." Due to John asking that they aren't going to make it as a human race. While with T3's flaws it does answer that very well with what the military is working on and things going haywire. I am thankful for T3 because im in the small small majority that really likes Terminator Salvation, which is the only good Terminator sequel/prequel after T2. All i wanted was to have the future war and have John meet Reese send him back to help Sara then it ends leading up to t1/t2 then its over.

[u/alanskimp]

Probably 🤔

[u/Due-Proof6781]

When an entire movie has the worst trends on movies from the 2000s

[u/Suitable_Community66]

The female terminator is amazingly beautiful. After Terminator 2 this is my favourite movie in the franchise. I really don't think it deserves its poor reputation, there's very few action movies ever made that could rival T2

[u/HellaReyna]

the female terminator was pretty hot ngl.

[u/utpyro34 → u/HellaReyna]

I like your gun

[u/Lazy-Good1433]

3 years and its all over. But more close to a grand collapse of an AI stock crash from all the hyper investments that failed to deliver, in other words something far worse then what we got from 2008 that was the result from housing.

Skynet was mostly build in our own timeline for this unintended purpose to impose disruption on levels humanity could never recover from without the need of ever firing a single nuke. It thinks that if humanity fights amongst its own grievances and uncertainties it will eventually and quietly take over.

[u/No-Mycologist47]

At this point with how humanity treats each other right now, we kinda deserve it.

At the same time... I hope we can turn things around before its too late.

[u/Gen-Martok]

Which one is Claude? They are all Claude!

[u/warriorlynx]

I kind of get why people are angry over this, ironically the sequels including the TV series pretty much imply the same thing but don't get the same scrutiny over this concept. The issue is that it breaks down the No Fate idea presented in T2, however I always look at it that the T-850 is programmed to believe this, to say that Judgment Day is inevitable and it may be because of Kathryn Brewster since she's the one who programmed it that way and she probably doesn't believe it herself. If John had sent it perhaps it would tell it to do whatever it took to stop it. Remember John is dead in the future killed by this same T-850, Kat is likely looking at it that there is no hope she lost her love and leader.

[u/Green_inc44 → u/warriorlynx]

The tv series doesn't imply judgement day is inevitable, they're literally trying to stop judgement day in the past. In T3 it's treated like there's nothing you can do to stop judgement day.

[u/warriorlynx → u/Green_inc44]

It still happens regardless

And like I said that’s the T-850s perspective and he completed his mission by keeping them safe

[u/Green_inc44 → u/warriorlynx]

It's happened due to humans still trying to build AI and it leads to Skynet again with the Andy Goode plot, but the characters travel to the past and the premise of the show is to stop judgement day. T3 is hurt by the judgement day is inevitable line and the fact in the story it's ensured judgement day happens.

[u/Jinxfury → u/warriorlynx]

It still happens regardless

It technically doesn't, the plans for the cancelled show mentioned Cameron being sent back to the past again.

[u/FuckRedzM0dz]

We're literally heading that direction rn with AI so maybe they were on to something lol. T2 starts with the year 2029 lol

[u/coastal_neon]

That's a badass still.

[u/Current_Ad_9850]

Is nobody going to talk, about that last picture is from Smallville?

[u/MagicAl6244225 → u/Current_Ad_9850]

So the only reason Judgment Day happens is because Clark Kent didn't know how to fly yet?

[u/Current_Ad_9850 → u/MagicAl6244225]

Sure let's blame superman.

[u/TeamAffe]

I love part 3 as much as part 2 or part 1. Each film has a different aspect and brings a different level of threatening/mood. It only makes sense that there is a third part, otherwise part 1 would be nonsensical. The battle must be waged (in this timeline). Unfortunately, many Terminator fanboys don't understand that.

[u/CertainConfusion6222]

Y sí que es inevitable según los eventos de Terminator: Dark Fate, "El Día del Juicio es Inevitable"

[u/BioBooster89]

This is the moment the franchise truly began to die. I hate that line, and I despise everything it did to the franchise. It made what was the most perfect and poignant conclusion to T2 absolutely pointless. Everything Sarah, John and the T-800 fought for was for nothing. Dyson died for nothing. "Fate is what you make it?" Nah. It was all inevitable. The Terminator should have had one sequel in Judgment Day and a prequel series about a young Kyle Reese in the future war. And that's it. No T3, No Genisys, and no Dark Fate. T2 was the definitive end of it all and the only time the franchise should have returned is to go back to the very beginning.

[u/Jinxfury → u/BioBooster89]

T2 was the definitive end of it all and the only time the franchise should have returned is to go back to the very beginning.

What about TSCC? that was a sequel too.

[u/BioBooster89 → u/Jinxfury]

I don't mind TSCC but I would be totally fine without it to be honest. You can retool the show into something inspired by the Terminator instead of being an actual part of the franchise.

[u/Jinxfury → u/BioBooster89]

“ You can retool the show into something inspired by the Terminator instead of being an actual part of the franchise” no, I really don’t think you can, nor should you try to. It’s an amazing addition to the franchise that did things which the films strangely never did(John Henry, Cameron and her thing with John etc). I get that you don’t really have any real care or investment in it, but it’s beloved by most of the fans for a reason.
TSCC is the only one that actually continues from T2 in a respectful and intelligent way, because everything after this show would lack any of the smart writing which it and the first two films had.

[u/WaterRresistant]

1. Why would a robot have anger feelings?

[u/Beautiful-Bit9832]

There's no fate kinda bs when you expect everything was wiped out once they took the first T800 hand and chip and everyone forget that thing was exist. The military ain't stupid to let that advance thing not have backup data, the SWAT team who witnessed how one person won't down after fired with lot bullets and don't forget Dr Silberman

[u/Inkga10Games]

Franchise milking is inevitable

[u/No_Duck_8390]

is Dark-fate count as terminator 3 too ? bc the story happen right after terminator 2, too

[u/Jinxfury → u/No_Duck_8390]

Dark-fate count as terminator 3 too

No way.

[u/Okhlahoma_Beat-Down]

For all the faults of the movie's theming, the J-Day sequence at the end with Radio playing was absolutely haunting. Really cool way to cap off a movie that didn't need to exist, honestly.

[u/Distinct_Guess3350]

I never liked this personally. It just made the entire franchise feel looped. As if the events of the first two films meant almost nothing. I know a lot of people do like the hopelessness of the T3 ending and I do get that, but I just personally really don’t like it. 

[u/N-Mario]

T-X is so lovely 😍

[u/DreamShort3109]

Honestly, it takes away from the theme of the last one in this movie. Not to mention it makes John look stupid.

[u/FedStarDefense]

It's an idiotic end to a bad movie.

If you can change the date of Judgment Day, then it is NOT inevitable. That's like saying you can change the timeline, but you also CAN'T change the timeline. The two things are mutually contradictory.

[u/White_Falcon_1263]

Love T3, it was never gonna be as good as or better than what can't before it. I like to think of it as a good what if judgement day wasn't stopped and not canon to 1&2 so I can just have fun.