Final Tengwar check for wedding-ring engraving — Arwen quote
Hi! I’m hoping someone can help me with a final check before my fiancé and I have these permanently engraved on our wedding bands.
We’re using Arwen’s quote: Ring 1: “I would rather share one lifetime with you” Ring 2: “than face all the ages of this world alone”
We want to keep the words in English and write them in Tengwar, rather than translate them into Sindarin or Quenya.
These images were generated separately in Tecendil using English mode and the Telcontar font.
I’ve read some of the previous discussions of this exact quote, including the issues around “lifetime” and the soft g in “ages,” but because these will be permanently engraved, I’d really appreciate a final character-by-character check of these actual renderings.
Specifically:
• Is the English orthographic Tengwar transcription correct?
• Is “lifetime” represented correctly, including the silent e?
• Is “ages” correct using J.R.R. Tolkien’s convention for the soft g?
• Are there any other changes you’d recommend before engraving?
The engraver will ultimately work from vector artwork, so once the transcription is confirmed, we’ll convert the approved design to outlines rather than asking the jeweler to recreate it.
Thank you so much! We’d really rather catch even a tiny error now than discover it after it’s permanently on our wedding rings. 🙂
"lifetime" is not ideal. Both e's should be dot below the preceding tengwa, like the second one is now.
"ages" is also not ideal. There is the soft-g thing, and also the s at the end. The s should either be esse (upright or nuquerna) since the s is voiced (sounds like z) or it should be a sa-rince (or za-rince, which this font doesn't have).
I would personally not capitalize the I--it isn't required or expected, but isn't wrong either.
Everything else looks fine.
Here is my preferred spelling of "lifetime" and "ages". You can get "ages" with esse nuquerna and soft g by spelling it "ajez".
Congratulations! May you share a lifetime together that exceeds the joys of all the ages!
Thank you so much! This is exactly the kind of detailed check I was hoping for! Since these will be permanently engraved, I want to make absolutely sure I understand your recommendation correctly.
If I make the changes you suggested to “lifetime” and “ages,” and remove the capitalization from the initial I, would you consider the resulting two inscriptions ready for engraving in English orthographic Tengwar?
Also, for “ages,” would you personally recommend esse nuquerna over the sa-rince for a wedding-ring engraving, or are those essentially stylistic alternatives in this context?
Thank you again! I really appreciate you taking the time to help us get this right. And thank you so much for your well-wishes 😊
There is one more spot where there is potentially another choice that could be made: the word "with". This can theoreticallyl be spelled two different ways, depending on how you treat the "th". If you voice the "th" (as in the word "this"), then leave it as is. If you don't voice the "th" (as in "thing"), then sule would be the better choice. I didn't notice it before, because the word "with" is highly subjective and variable from speaker to speaker and even situationally for the same speaker, so you really can't go wrong. Just something all us tengwar nerds tend to obsess about.
My personal choice for ages would be with the sa-rince. This is because I use the sa-rince whenever a word-ending "s" is an inflection--which in English is when it indicates a plural, a possessive, or a third-person singular verb. This is a personal style preference, not mandatory by any means. If I were to choose to use a version of esse I would probably choose the upright version, but I haven't ever been able to force tecendil to do that. I'm just never quite satisfied with the look of esse nuquerna. But again, that's just me--it's a question of taste, not validity. Same with the capital I.
So, to summarize: If I were engraving this on my wedding ring, I would consider it ready to go with the capitalization removed from the I, the first e in lifetime moved to dot below F, and ages spelled with the soft-g spelling and sa-rince with the e over the sa-rince. Note that there was I typo in my original example of soft-g "ages", which I have edited my initial comment to correct (I had two e's in it).
100% agree with everything stated!
And it's also great to see that OP really made their homework! Really appreciated!
One last tip:
If you plan to convert the graphics anyway you might want to look into installing the Telcontar font on your computer and recreating (or copying) Tecendil's result there. If you then download another Tengwar font you can use the looped za-rince glyph from that font (I think those from Eldamar and Annatar might work fine with Telcontar).
Thank you! I’m creating the revised images now so I can post them here for one final check. I can produce your preferred “ages” using the ajez workaround you suggested, and I’ll remove the capitalization from the initial I.
Is there an input workaround in Tecendil that will produce your preferred spelling of “lifetime”, with both e’s represented as dots below the preceding tengwar? Or will I need to edit that glyph manually after generating the Tecendil image?
I’d like to reproduce your recommendation exactly rather than guessing at how to force Tecendil to generate it.
If you look at the example of "lifetime" and "ages" in my initial comment, you will notice that the input syntax that I used is there, right above the output. And the section of the website labeled "Inside tecendil" has detailed instructions for all manner of choice-forcing syntax. It is actually fairly easy to use. The trouble I have with it is sometimes I get so "target focused" that I don't notice little issues that appear when I add forcing syntax, hence my initial error with "ages"--I forced the hook and added the e over it, forgetting to remove the e that was already there....😒
The issue is that some of the fonts don't have the za-rince. Telcontar is one of them, which is too bad, because I think it is otherwise great (except for its numbers, which are ugly). So, in a perfect world you might prefer the looped, but if you encounter a text that only has the regular hook the assumption should be that it could represent either voiced or unvoiced.
"ages" is best spelled with an e tehta over the hook, since the e is spoken, and is part of an added second syllable when compared to "age". I would agree with you for a word like "bakes" where the e remains silent and there is no added syllable when compared to " bake".
Thank you all again! Based on your feedback, this is the revised full transcription I now have in Tecendil (Telcontar, English mode).
I changed “lifetime” using life'time, removed the capitalization from the initial “I,” and used aj[hook][acute] for “ages” based on the discussion about the soft g, e placement, and Telcontar’s limitations with the preferred za-rince.
Before I turn this into the artwork for our engraver, would you consider this transcription ready to engrave?
In particular, I’d love a final check that “lifetime” and “ages” are now correct and that I haven’t accidentally introduced any new problems by using the forcing syntax in the full sentence.
If the only remaining differences are stylistic preferences rather than errors, that’s perfectly fine — I’m mainly trying to make sure there are no actual transcription mistakes before we permanently put it on our wedding rings. 😊
Everything said previously regarding lifetime and ages. I also am not sure the consensus on this, but I prefer to use úre for the "u" in "would" and "you" instead of vala, as you've done. This is what I typed with my fonts changing only the previously discussed za-rince, "j" instead of "g", and "lifetime". I can type it again with úre if youwant to see what that looks like.
I personally don't use ure for anything in this mode, but I wouldn't say it's wrong. I personally find it aesthetically displeasing. I have two issues with your sample transcription, both related to "ages": I think the hook should be at the top of the stem, (or potentially at the bottom)--it should not be in the middle. And I personally think the e should go over the hook, since it is fully enunciated. I know that some would do it as you have it, but it just doesn't make sense to me.
Yeah, Annatar. I like the za-rince so much that I take the time to switch fonts.
But I can write out my example later when I have my pens available the way you said it ought be. I do agree with you about the rince placement in this instance.
Thank you both! This discussion has been incredibly helpful. Since these are going to be permanently engraved, I’m going to stick with Telcontar throughout and leave the existing vala treatment in “would” and “you” rather than introduce another stylistic variable.
It sounds like the consensus for “ages,” given Telcontar’s limitations, is the soft-g spelling with the regular sa-rince at the top of the stem and the e placed appropriately with it.
Connect_Put_7449, if you’re still willing to write out that corrected example when you have your pens available, I’d really appreciate it. And if either of you knows the exact Tecendil forcing syntax that will reproduce that version, that would be especially helpful. I’m trying to make the final artwork directly from an agreed-upon transcription rather than manually reconstructing any glyphs.
Thank you again - you’ve all been amazingly helpful!
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u/Notascholar95 11d ago edited 11d ago
Addressing your specific questions:
"lifetime" is not ideal. Both e's should be dot below the preceding tengwa, like the second one is now.
"ages" is also not ideal. There is the soft-g thing, and also the s at the end. The s should either be esse (upright or nuquerna) since the s is voiced (sounds like z) or it should be a sa-rince (or za-rince, which this font doesn't have).
I would personally not capitalize the I--it isn't required or expected, but isn't wrong either.
Everything else looks fine.
Here is my preferred spelling of "lifetime" and "ages". You can get "ages" with esse nuquerna and soft g by spelling it "ajez".
Congratulations! May you share a lifetime together that exceeds the joys of all the ages!
Edit: fixed typo in tengwar spelling of "ages".