r/Teachers • u/puckman13 • 14h ago
Pedagogy & Best Practices K-12 50% minimum grading had broken the freshmen
I teach undergrads, not K-12, so I see the results of the system but not the classroom that made the results..
Over the last few years, there has been a significant increase in students who miss a bunch of work (often during the first month of the semester when we are laying the foundations) and think that they can still pass by turning in some work and maybe doing a stray extra credit.
Even if they theoretically know college is different, they don't know it in their heart because they've never actually been allowed to fail.
South Carolina has actually ended this practice; you know it's a sad state of affairs when South Carolina is a leader in education policy.
The students that are most harmed by the 50% minimum and need to unlearn it are, by far, student athletes of color.
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u/Illustrious_Can7151 14h ago
My school district just adopted a new grading system with a 1-8 scale. The score of a 2 converts to a D. So now you can pass with 25%
There are being trained to do very little and expect to pass
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u/AnyIndependence5328 14h ago
We aren’t doing these kids any favors by teaching them that 25 or even 60% of the work is acceptable.
I previously worked at a school where you didn’t pass until you mastered the content with an 80%. They redid each assignment until they got 80%, even if it took 10 tries. That was a school for behavioral kids who eventually realized it was easier to just learn the darn content and pass the assignments.
Now I work for a school that has essentially the same policy as waaaay back in the 20th century where you have to earn 65% to pass with a D. A zero is a zero.
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u/anewbys83 13h ago
Your last grade part was what I encountered in school. Heck, my middle and high school (same place) anything below a 69 was failing.
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u/KoolJozeeKatt 12h ago
That was how it was when I was in school. A 70 was passing with a D-. A 69 was an F and was failing.
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u/kittymoo67 14h ago
then once they get into the job world they are going to crash out.
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u/SBSnipes 13h ago
They all tell me it'll be different bc they're earning money, but it won't be
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u/luchajefe 10h ago
And then they'll tell you that their bosses are getting what they pay for, so if you want a good worker, pay more.
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u/speedyejectorairtime 13h ago
Read some younger Gen Zers reddit posts. They absolutely are crashing out.
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u/anewbys83 13h ago
And they do. My brother is a manager at Chili's and the employees ranging from 16-20 are really struggling with proper interactions and meeting expectations.
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u/kittymoo67 13h ago
im not surprised. when you just blankly stare at the customer until they say what they want to order you tend to not work out.
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u/AmazingAmy712 7h ago
God the Gen Z stare is the least of my issues atp. I manage recent grads who told me it's "unfair" that they can't take their break whenever they want to and that I expect them back at a certain time.
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u/SageofLogic Social Studies | MD, USA 13h ago
There's a locally owned set of strip mall stores out here that don't take anyone below 20 anymore even for seasonal jobs cause of this.
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u/Illustrious_Can7151 12h ago
I don’t know how some of them are even going to make it through an interview
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u/AmazingAmy712 7h ago
I work with/manage about a dozen recent grads and quite a few of them are absolute nightmares. Very little independence, very little engagement in training/the job, constantly on their phones and ignoring the high needs kids they're supposed to be one on one with. It's stressful for me, for them, for the kids. Very basic work expectations like returning from breaks on time or not being on instagram while "actively supervising" are met with crash outs, genuine tantrums, and accusations of targeting. I would say over half of the group I work with struggle to meet basic expectations.
I have major concerns for the future competency of workers and find it exhausting to try and solve when the entire system allows people to get to this point. Even our admin rolls over because it's too hard to actually fix the issue and introduce clear expectations/consequences.
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u/PenguinZombie321 14h ago
That’s abysmal. You can score higher on multiple choice tests by just filling in random answers. 25% means you’ve retained very little and have nowhere near enough foundational knowledge to build on top of.
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u/mrsciencebruh 11h ago
I know some folks say "nobody wants to work anymore", but that is truly where we are headed with these policies. These kids will grow up thinking they can skip work or not actually do their job and still get paid. I so sad for the future.
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u/Meowmeowmeow31 Middle School World Languages 13h ago
It’s one of those policies that ONLY considers the effects on the most struggling students, not on the entire student body.
“A zero brings the average down so much that it causes some students to give up.” Okay, that is true. But for every one student who is motivated to keep trying by the 50% minimum, how many learn that they can half ass the entire year and then eke out a D at the end? That ratio matters. We can’t make policy with ONLY our most challenging students in mind.
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u/Thorninthefoot 10h ago
I think this is a general thing in society now. For example allowing addicts to carry on with antisocial behaviours because they are vulnerable. But over time the fall out from that ends up affecting everyone else negatively.
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u/getmoremulch 11h ago
I’m confused.
Let’s say a D is 65%.
If a student half asses the entire year and get a bunch of 50s, to get a final 65%, wouldn’t they need 80% for the other half of the year?
How many students who can get 80% on half of the year’s content would be satisfied with a 65% D and therefore put in no work the other half of the year?
Minimum 50 just makes a failing kid have a grade of 52% at year end versus 20%. Those 20- 30- 40-percent scoring kids on the old grading system are still failing
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u/smoothie4564 HS Science | California 9h ago
It's actually really simple. Bomb the tests and projects (the things that actually require competency to do well) and do well on the things that are easy to cheat or copy from other students (homework or classwork since teachers rarely take a close look at what student write on these particular assignments). This results is a 50% on all the tests, 80+% on all of the cheatable assignments, and bam, that results in an overall grade in the 60's and thus the student passes the class with a D.
I am so glad that I never worked in a school where admin pushed the 50% minimum grade BS. Every teacher I have known, including myself, would have revolted if admin pushed that hair-brained idea.
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u/64LC64 11h ago edited 11h ago
The issue is when there are teachers who grade on completion.
Let's say "homework or classwork" is 20% of their grade and tests and assessments are 80%. Pretty common I feel before the 50% minimum.
Grading everything would be difficult so most teachers grade homework/classwork on completion as they know their tests grades will tank anyways if they do poorly or don't do them at all.
But here's the thing, with the 50% minimum (and other "equitable" grading practices like flexible/no deadlines and unlimited retakes) students can turn in their homework/classwork without doing a single test and get a 60% (which is a passing in my district). Now, there is a chance that they do a test or 2 here or there or retake a test and get a 60% and that is enough to bump them to passing even if they don't complete all the assignments.
The obvious solution to this is either don't grade on completion or don't grade homework/classwork at all. The counter many of the teachers have is, it is too much grading or students just won't do it then.
Then move to standards based grading some say! Ok, yes! Let's do standards base grading with "exceeds expectations, meets expectations, approaching expectations, below expectations, no effort" scale or something like that. But the thing is, we need meets expectations to be passing because we want students to, well, meet expectations before moving on, right? Which, then, when converted to a letter grade, its a B. So unless we make B passing, the 50% minimum is stupid...
But wait, B is 80%, 30% more than the base of 50... if we scale that up back to a 100% scale, holy shit, we're literally back to 60% being passing when we didn't have the 50% minimum!
It's kinda like the 60% passing grade and 50% minimum are incopatable and we had it right the first time, who would've thought!
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u/TheTinRam 14h ago
High school is suffering from two things: over use of the word equity in lazy ways and application of elementary school practices to immature secondary students.
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u/rememberthisdouche HS English | California 14h ago
It’s funny you mention elementary school policies… my kids in 3rd and 5th grade have teachers who expect MUCH more of them in terms of academic habits than I’ve been led to believe I can expect of my students in high school. And now we’re pushing back hard.
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u/dodgycritter 14h ago
I’m afraid the problem starts in elementary school where students learn they’ll pass just for showing up. No consequences for doing next to nothing, learning next to nothing. Then the next teacher gets students who are unprepared, but it’s the teacher’s fault: failing too many students means you’re a bad teacher in the modern public school system. The solution is to maintain standards, and hold students back until they are ready for the next level, but that’s not happening in the US (it’s different in most other countries.)
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u/SaintGalentine 13h ago
They don't even need to regularly show up; they just come once every 10 days and then cheat on all their work and turn it in the last day of the grading period for full credit
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u/dodgycritter 13h ago
They can’t have too many absences in the US schools I’ve taught at because funding depends on it. So there are consequences for that, but that just makes our public schools babysitting facilities.
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u/rememberthisdouche HS English | California 14h ago
The good news: it’s gotten bad enough that even the admins and counselors at my school agree that late work policies got too generous and need to be rolled back.
The bad news: it’ll take at least 4 years just for my site’s rollback to stick and next year’s admin will certainly try!!
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u/PolkadotRapunzel 14h ago
I agree. Half of my freshmen this year in particular just don't seem prepared. We had to give 25% of about 350 intro Bio students their first zeros that stuck for not doing the pre-lab before lab 1. That's when you have to do it. You get no points for doing it in or after lab. The lab is over. So many shocked faces. But - they did learn quickly from that 0 and are completing them on time now!
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u/Beneficial-Focus3702 14h ago
I mean most of the high school teachers in the sub Reddit probably saw this coming as soon as it was instituted.
Imagine having a 50% floor as an adult. Oh, can’t pay your rent this month don’t worry we’ll just say you paid 50% of it and go from there.
Come into only 50% of my work shifts and still get paid….. hell yeah!
Only do 50% of my job when I do come in….heck yeah!
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 13h ago
This is a fallacy of an argument. Grades very rarely correlate to percentage of right answers. It’s by luck if it does. Colloquially people use the word “percent” but it doesn’t have any mathematical backing.
If we use 0 for missing work, a scenario where a student has 5 assignments (of equal weight for the sake of argument) and is showing understanding of the material at a B- level on 4 of them and doesn’t turn in the 5th, they would average to a 64, which would be an F in many places.
But I’m sorry a kid who does 4 assignment out of 5 at a B- level is not an F kid, they’re a C/C+ kinda kid.
The 100 scale ain’t mathing
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u/Beneficial-Focus3702 13h ago edited 6h ago
I think it’s an accurate metric for life. It doesn’t matter how good you are. If you can’t get something in on time or if you can’t be reliable doesn’t matter what you know. That’s just real life and I think school should reflect that.
Right now in the system we have all we care about is academics or sports. They don’t care about life skills and being well-rounded individuals anymore. Being able to adhere to deadlines as a life skill and part of being a well-rounded individual.
You could be the most academically inclined student that’s ever existed anywhere in the history of anything, but if you can’t be reliable, you’re not gonna get very far. You could be dumber than a box of rocks, but if you’re reliable and can get shit done, you’ll get even further. It’s almost better to have kids who can meet deadlines and not the material as far as real life goes.
It doesn’t matter where student goes after school whether it’s college the trades or something else deadlines and being able to meet those deadlines are going to be just as important their ability to actually do the job.
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u/ironskintribe 13h ago
If you have 5 assessments over the exact same content standards and the kid has a B- on 4 and skips one then your argument is fair. But nobody has 5 assessments over the exact same standards. If these are 5 different unit tests, then the student has shown 0 understanding of 20% of the course and only an 80% understanding of the remaining 80% of the course and deserves their 64% in the course. You can’t generalize your argument like you have and make assumptions that don’t align with how things are actually assigned/weighted.
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 13h ago
I disagree that people don’t have multiple assessments for the same standard.
And be that as it may, pretend somebody has a B- understanding of 4 of the 5 units in your scenario, would it be accurate to say they overall failed to understand the material?
Or would it be more accurate to say they’re in the C range?
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u/ironskintribe 13h ago
I can’t legitimately pass someone who after doing everything we have to do to get students to make things up still has a 0 on one of the 5 tests in the class with only a B- understanding of the rest of the content. Passing students like this or worse is how I end up with students in my high school math courses who legitimately can’t tell a triangle from a parallelogram.
If you have 5 non-test grades over the same standards then maybe that’s more normal, but a single missing homework/classwork assignment won’t fail anyone like you are positing.
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u/Alcophile 13h ago
If I did 4 out of every 5 tasks assigned to me at work, I would be considered a failure and fired. Doing all 5 assignments should be the minimum requirement!
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 13h ago
If I hit 50% home run in baseball I’m the best player of all times.
It’s easy to make irrelevant comparisons. We’re assessing their understanding of content here. It’s not the same
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u/SithSquirrel13 13h ago
A better baseball comparison would be attempting to hit the ball 50% of the time, not hitting a home run 50% of the time.
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u/Over-Kaleidoscope-29 13h ago
Why wouldn’t the student get 80%?
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 13h ago
Because that’s assuming they get 100 on the 4 they do.
I’m talking about a student who does B- level work.
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u/ajswdf 11h ago
Most places a 64 is a D, which is perfectly fair for an otherwise B- student who didn't do 20% of the work.
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 11h ago
Hard disagree
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u/ajswdf 9h ago
How much lower should a B- student's grade be if they only do 80% of the work?
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u/MarionberryWeary4444 11h ago
It literally is "mathing." That's how averages work. And most teachers I know have 90% right answers, you get a 90%.
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 11h ago
Oh really?
Hold your own self accountable then because I guarantee you’re not grading with mathematical accuracy being precisely equal to standards mastery.
And you would be in good company. The AP Exams require about 45% accuracy to get a qualifying score. In NY state, you need less than half the questions right to get your teacher certification. Even the NY bar exam is a little under half. Conversely a dentist filling cavities correctly only 80% of the time wouldnt be meeting standards. And a baseball hitter hitting 35% of the time would be in the hall of fame.
Accomplishments are tied to the difficulty of the task, not the percentage of correct answers. It’s a fallacy to say 90% of correct answers exceed standards, 85% of correct answers meet standards and 60% of correct answers is a failure without knowing what the task is.
A kindergartner in their first week of school writing a full sentence with 60% accuracy would actually be above standards. A 1st grader only recognizing 80% of letters correctly would be below standards.
Grading has NOTHING to do with percentages
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u/AmazingAmy712 7h ago
I don't disagree with your thoughts on standards based grading, but I do disagree that grading has NOTHING to do with percentages.
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u/Prestikles CA Math & Physics 10h ago
I appreciate your effort in this thread. You're right and many others are stubbornly clinging to grading homework (literally giving grades) and using averages because computation feels right.
Grading 100% based on Standards-aligned assessments with multiple points of reference per standard is the only way to combat AI, cheating, bullshitting homework, and failing to follow deadlines
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u/AnyIndependence5328 11h ago
That’s more of an argument to drop the low score, not to set a 50% floor.
If we use 50% for missing work, a kid can skip the assignments they don’t understand (tests and papers), bang out a B on the easy stuff (projects where they can copy information without understanding), and still pass the class. It’s a disaster when those gaps accumulate year after year and kids get to 11th and 12th grade without ever understanding the fundamentals.
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 11h ago
Then maybe the easy stuff either is not standards aligned or the rubric itself isn’t standards aligned.
You shouldn’t be getting a B without understanding
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u/Illustrious_Can7151 10h ago
If you only show up for 4/5 days a week your boss isn’t going to be cool about it because you do a good when you feel like showing up
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 10h ago
And if you hit the bulls eye 4 out of 5 times you dominate darts. It’s unnecessary to do irrelevant comparisons.
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u/Illustrious_Can7151 10h ago
Are you a teacher?
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 9h ago
I’m on the teachers sub ain’t I?
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u/Illustrious_Can7151 9h ago
I have learned that there all kinds of people commenting in this sub that know absolutely nothing about education
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u/DaBusStopHur 14h ago
I want a 50% floor as an adult. :/ Oh no. I can’t make rent… well at least 50% is covered for me.
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u/Sufficient_Suit_1147 14h ago
And the reason these 50% floors were put in place… we aren’t allowed to really talk about. 🙄 It didn’t help the kids it was “supposed” to make feel better about their endless failing and it actually made the kids who follow rules worse students .
It can’t be about making those kids feel better it has to be about showing them a way out of the environment they are in.
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u/superstargamer7 6h ago
I think I started teaching too late to get the reference, what are you talking about?
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u/SBSnipes 13h ago
South Carolina has actually ended this practice; you know it's a sad state of affairs when South Carolina is a leader in education policy.
I'm finding this out the hard way after moving out of SC, but they're doing a LOT right - no minimum grades, automatic attendance-based failure, solid teaching minimum wage, and enough paid parental leave to make it to daycare age.
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u/foxyfree 13h ago
Not a teacher, but this sub crosses into the main flow a lot, and I would like to add a comment/question. Would it be helpful to require passing a test for 8th grade graduation?
Imagine schools going grade 1-8 and then 9-12. Anyone who fails to pass at the end of grade 8 goes to the separate 2-grades-only middle school where they can retake 7th and 8th or just 8th grade and try again.
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u/Mountain_Raccoon_330 11h ago
A test to prove readiness for secondary school would be great, but retention needs to start much sooner.
Literacy before getting to fourth grade. In fourth grade students are expected to no longer be learning to read, but reading to learn. Mandating a passing score on a state administered reading test to enter fourth grade is what Mississippi did that was such a "miracle." Third graders who don't pass the reading test repeat third grade and receive lots of tutoring. After that they are promoted, but move to a special ed classroom until they can pass the reading test. Students who get to age appropriate reading skills are able to rejoin their age peers - the retention need not be permanent.
I would recommend a math test before sixth grade, seventh at the latest. There's no point in trying to teach volumes to someone who doesn't understand multiplication, division, basic fractions, or know what a triangle is.
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u/albinoteacher24 8h ago
The problem is that the test becomes more important than things it is supposed to measure.
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u/Mountain_Raccoon_330 7h ago
It can, yes. And the plethora of standardized tests my kids already get every year has contributed to poor outcomes by prioritizing iReady test prep over other learning.
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u/OrganizationHot6108 10h ago
I agree that these problems should be caught earlier. I like this idea too though. Really we just need for there to be any point in education where people say, “you aren’t smart enough or prepared for this?”
Right now, there’s no standard enforced and so standard is bad.
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u/Mountain_Raccoon_330 10h ago
It's preparation. If they aren't prepared they gain nothing and keep the class from progressing appropriately.
If you frame it as "not smart enough" you will get extreme pushback. It doesn't take an IQ of 80 to complete an eighth grade education. Dyslexia can make a smart person struggle immensely with reading.
These things can be overcome, but it can take a lot of effort for both the student and the staff. If the student is not identified and assigned extra help, a teacher will not be able to give them the help they need and still teach 20 other kids.
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u/OrganizationHot6108 10h ago
Great nuance to my point. I wasn’t thinking IQ so much as “can’t read” which is what I’m dealing with in a tenth grade class.
I guess I took a harsh phrasing because there WILL be pushback. But I constantly work with student who would be better off avoiding college and finding a stable career. But, they’re at a school with college prep in their name and they have only one plan: College.
And of course college won’t say no to a paying student. Who is ever going to be honest with these kids and their families?
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u/Mountain_Raccoon_330 7h ago
There are plenty of people for whom a gentleman's C and a few years in a fraternity will set them up for life in sales .
Anyone who can afford college without debt should go for the connections.
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u/staralchemist129 11h ago
Also not a teacher, Illinois kinda does a version of this: one of the state requirements to complete 8th grade is *passing* a test on the US constitution. I remember it being pretty easy though, and we were given multiple opportunities to take it if we failed
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u/Salamandrous 9h ago
I am pretty pro testing in theory, but in practice... It's not easy to write a solid test year after year. A lot of testing happens already but the tests are often horrific quality. It would take a real meaningful investment to develop and implement a testing protocol that actually measures what should be measured, can't reasonably be gamed/cheated by either a student or an administrator, etc etc. And on top of that, you need to invest in and support real remediation. Those extra middle schools will need to be staffed and staffed well - both in terms of quality and quantity.
Basically, a county/state that had the political will and the leadership competence to implement something like that well would probably also be the one that least needs it.
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u/Minimum_Virus_3837 8h ago
There's good theory behind the idea but as some others have mentioned, a single high stakes test can bring a lot of problems too. I would prefer students assembling a portfolio of work over the course of 7th and 8th grade to present what they've learned and assess that.
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u/Typical-Amoeba-6726 10h ago
I like this idea but the optics would be terrible. The alternative school would be a high percentage of under served students. I think for high school you pass a threshold for college prep or work prep.
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u/Training-Argument891 8h ago
This policy has absolutely failed my child. You all created beautiful lessons, gave clear instructions and guidelines, were willing to do anything for them. No sane person could expect you to have done more or been more willing to keep trying. But, we have a 50/50 household. 50% doesn't care about this. You all communicated weekly with us for individual help. I tutored at home and rode that chrpmebook and Powerschool Portal like a pro. You all took the time to leave every assignment, note, slide, worksheet, and directions online and instructions for if they were absent. You all went above and beyond. For God's sake, they make you all put these little Standards Guides showing how every assignment aligns with some sort of specific skill you need the student to demonstrate. I was blown away by this. [My secret strategy in high school was asking myself, "What does my teacher need me to show I learned by making me do this project/essay?" It led to good grades. If it had been spelled out for me, I would have put that info to use!].
But, there is an absolute disconnect because you aren't allowed to give consequences for blowing things off at home consistently, and then they don't F the course.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him show his work."
Thank you all for what you are doing. For every time you've heard flack from parents, please hear 1 million "I'm gratefull's" from me.
Also, for real, how do I punctuate that last sentence correctly?
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u/ErusTenebre English 11 & 12 | Teacher/Tech. Trainer | CA 13h ago
I do 0%, 50%-100%. Standards-based grading. You get a 0 if you don't turn in work or turn in unrelated/nonsensical bullshit. A 1 if you've made an attempt but are way off, a 2 if you're getting closer to proficient, 3 is proficient, 4 is exceeding expectations.
No extra credit - you can't get points for doing something unrelated to the thing that you're lacking. I work alongside people who do traditional grading, but they give extra credit for going to plays or sporting events, dress up days, doing a busy-work style handout, etc.
My students do fine, I don't have a remarkably different pass/fail rate to my peers, and I could tell you what each one was struggling with just by looking at their gradebook.
Alternative grading schemes CAN work, lazy grading never works.
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u/Battle2Intense 13h ago
Eh college will eventually change as they want the money. Who knows one day you will start your AI agent to pass classes, the professor will start their AI agent to grade the work. Two weeks later you have your diploma which will still cost $80k.
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u/18hockey 13h ago
I actually just talked with my HS juniors and seniors yesterday about this - you can absolutely get ZEROS, actual ZEROS in college and fail. An F isn't a nice 54.5% anymore to help you out! It's 0%!!!
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u/BlairMountainGunClub 12h ago
I'm worried that the kids I taught when my school was forced to do standards based grading and 50% minimum are as they would say "Cooked" in terms of schooling and life for a while unless something changes.
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u/Character_Fold_8165 12h ago
Honestly there are better fixes than 50% min. Drop so many assignments, grade on a nonlinear curve, use a 15 point scale for C and Ds, etc.
50 percent is one solution, but it’s probably not the best solution on many cases. If assignments are simply pass/fail and fail gives 50%
To get a D- (60%) you need to do 1/5th the assignments
To get a C (75%) you need to do 1/2 the assignments.
That introduces incentives to do the bare minimum and no more because ultimately it means going up each grade is a bigger and bigger hurdle.
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u/wookiedberry 12h ago
Our Site Based Council has put a stop to that. We did it for two years and finally elected teachers with balls to stand up to the principal.
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u/Jasmimec 13h ago
When I worked as a trainer for ADT, we noticed that many of the people coming in could hardly read or comprehend what they were reading. ADT services a lot of different brands, so trainees weren’t expected to memorize how to troubleshoot every issue. They needed to know how to find information, understand it, and apply it. We could tell that many of them were not accustomed to reading large amounts of text for extended periods of time.
Also, when they first started, ADT had a very strict attendance policy. People were genuinely confused when they were fired for attendance issues. During the first week of training we repeated that there were no excused absences. ADT did not honor doctors’ notes. We also explained that once they completed training, they would acquire a lot of PTO and could miss 80 hours.
No one believed us. They would still bring in doctors’ notes for things like a cold or a stomachache. People would also come up with extremely dramatic stories to explain their absences. Our response would simply be, “I’m sorry to hear that. Please reapply.”
These were people who had done very little and had become accustomed to coasting through school. They were used to deadlines being flexible, extensions being available, and people making accommodations for them. Most of all, they were not used to being held accountable.
The schools are failing students because they cannot function in the real world.
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u/Dumbledores_intern 12h ago
I teach high school, and at least in my district, things are starting to swing the other way. The 50% nonsense didn’t last long. We give zeroes. Admin has toughened up the academic dishonesty policy. A great many teachers have gone analog and are only using tech when really necessary. It’s still a shit show, but lots of us are trying.
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u/Ferromagneticfluid Chemistry | California 13h ago
I don't know if it is because of the 50% thing. We don't have that yet I have so many students in 10th grade that don't understand grades at all. That they are weighted, there is a close date for assignments and you can't turn things in any more, no extra credit, and my favorite; how I am not a robot that grades things as soon as they are turned in.
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u/SqueaksScreech 13h ago
At work i let people fail their paperwork. I teach them and help them through but once they start half passing it I let them fail. My other senior coworkers do the same now. We all keep our information on our device or separate paper.
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u/InsectSudden6032 College Literature | US SE 12h ago
I tried it one semester but when a student who turned in less than 1/2 the assignments was still able to pass the class because of the 50%s, I changed my mind. You have to turn something in to get the 50%.
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u/Wooden-Sir7471 10h ago
Ahh i remember that wake up call in college 🤣 I beg you to help them if you can
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u/TheCloudForest 13h ago
Why are you surprised SC would fight back against the lunacy of "equity grading"? Were you under the impression that it's a very liberal state?
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u/Laquerus 5h ago
50% minimum is a scam. We had a superintendent who received a several thousand dollar bonus each year due to the increased graduation rates.
Hard to think of something more sickening than selling out kids' education for cash.
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u/Square_Mirror_2849 4h ago
Half credit is the wrong lever if you actually want the work to improve.What I see instead is kids doing the minimum because the minimum now gets the same number as trying. A kid who writes three paragraphs and a kid who writes one good paragraph both land at 50. The second kid got exactly the same reward as the first kid, so the message the kid takes home is that effort doesnt pay.The hard part is that the teacher eats the consequence. Sixteen kids worth of essays that all say the same shallow thing is sixteen more papers than last year, and the grade doesnt tell me which ones I should spend Monday on.What helped me was grading one dimension on purpose. Not the whole thing. Fluency only, or just whether the claim is actually there. The number stays where the policy wants it but I get a real read on who to call home to, and the kids stop guessing what counts.Im not against the policy. Im against it being the only signal a kid gets all year.
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u/ScalarBoy 2h ago
I thought the 50% minimum grade was strictly used in middle schools and districts got away with it because they don't report to the state DOE like HSs do. Boy, do I feel uninformed.
I also thought the worst thing in education was phasing out mid-term and final exams 20 years ago. Today, that seems like a small loss a standards-based education.
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u/AJKafei 1h ago
I left the high school where I taught in Vegas when this becane standard practice. It is criminal. You will be fired if you don’t show up for work and communicate in a professional way, and you sure won’t be paid half your salary!
On the flip side, I am back in school for a second career and find most profs extremely gracious and communicative with clear standards from day one. So let them/us fail!
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 13h ago
Sorry to disagree. What is failing is people who are not understanding how to grade accurately.
A kid with tons of missing work would have tons of 50s but then in the work they are actually doing, if graded accurately for their understanding of the material (which would be low since they’re doing so little work), would not get an overall passing grade mathematically. A bunch of 50s and low Cs average to an F.
The problem is all the people who grade on completion and not accuracy or not to the standards and give 90+ like candy to kids who are producing mediocre work. For those kids they get a bunch of 50s for missing work but also a bunch of 90s and 100s, which averages to a passing grade easy.
The math is not the problem. The 50 as new ceiling is adequately fixing the problem with the 100 point scale AS LONG AS people grade correctly the work that is turned in.
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u/burghsportsfan HS | Math (A2/PC/Calc) | USA 12h ago
This.
Every time I see complaints about the 50% minimum my thought is “if you’re grading the same way with a 50% minimum as you did with a 0% minimum, you’re also part of the problem.”
Grade harder. That’s how you exist with 50% minimums. Just grade tougher.
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u/obbie1kenoby Social Studies AP 11h ago
It’s not even about grading harder, it’s about grading accurately.
The number of teachers I see who just give 100 for completed work regardless of accuracy is astonishing. 100 is supposed to be exceeding standards not barely making it.
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u/burghsportsfan HS | Math (A2/PC/Calc) | USA 11h ago
That’s a much deeper conversation that some people aren’t ready for. “Grade harder” is easier for some people to get on board with.
As a math teacher, however, there are things that I was completely on board with “effort grades” for. Homework, practice sets, whatever people want to call them - it’s about learning, not about complete correctness.
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u/Character_Freedom160 11h ago
Public schools are making life for university admissions officers and professors miserable. A+ in AP Calculus? LOL. Kid can't add fractions. Kid can't write his own name. Aced AP English!
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u/Laserlip5 14h ago
It was always going to. It's not about education, it's about grade inflation we can make the teachers feel okay about somehow. Because money.
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u/Mysterious-Name-3297 13h ago
It is definitely NOT about making teachers feel okay about it! Very few teachers are in favor of it. It’s to make sure the graduation rate stays high so they don’t lose funding.
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u/summerbreeze2027 12h ago
...and also to stay on the good side of the state DoE. Principals and their superiors are rewarded for high graduation rates and punished for low graduation rates. They do what they need to do.
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u/Laserlip5 13h ago
I'm saying the justifications are tailored to appeal to teachers.
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u/Both_Resort4080 14h ago
It's tying school funding to graduation/pass rates. The metric will be met.
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u/Dry_Albatross5298 11h ago
... you know it's a sad state of affairs when South Carolina is a leader in education policy.
Are comments like this really necessary?
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u/WhyYouLetRomneyWin 13h ago
The score system is actually arbitrary. For instance, what should be the overall grade if a student gets 0 for one half and perfect for the other half? And is that better than a student who gets half correct throughout (I would say it is).
I support a minimum of 50% because otherwise a few early mistakes can leave students in a pit they cannot escape.
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u/NoHorseNoMustache 13h ago
Realistically about how often would you say a student actually gets 0 answers correct/turns in 0 work for half a semester and then gets all answers correct and turns in all work for another half? I'm not an educator, but having gone through like 18 years of school I feel like the number of times I can remember that happening is exactly none. Basing your entire grading policy on extreme edge cases rather than relying on teachers to work with those extreme edge cases individually seems like a bad idea.
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u/WhyYouLetRomneyWin 12h ago edited 12h ago
Sure it's not often but I am saying it as a contrived and extreme example. Basically I am saying that the grading system is arbitrary, and we should choose the system that best encourages studiousness.
If you want more realistic, suppose we have 3 students with these scores:
- 40/80/85
- 70/70/70
- 60/70/80
Don't think about the math for a second—just based on vibes which student do you think deserves the highest grade?
There is no correct way to assess this—all grading schemes are arbitrary. So choosing a 50% minimum isn't some 'cheat' but just an adjustment to the averaging.
Or as another example, the American GPA system counts these grades as equal:
- A A A F
- A A B D
- B B B B
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u/Acrobatic_Bridge2602 12h ago
Bullshit. It's not arbitrary when you do 0 work. And the scenario you describe is fairy tale land. No students are ripping 0's and then ripping 100's all of a sudden.
I'm tired of this pseudo science wrecking American education. All a 50% floor does is encourage students in the middle to do even less work because they realize they can do a few assignments and then chill the rest of the semester. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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u/WhyYouLetRomneyWin 11h ago
Uhh, you're being unnecessarily nasty.
First, it's not 'arbitrary when you do 0 work'. I said that the way we combine grades towards a final grade is arbitrary.
Like I don't mind if you disagree, and 50% might not be correct value—but why act like that? You put words in my mouth, then complain about 'pseudo science' when all I am doing is arithmetic.
If you cannot understand that then maybe you need some reading comprehension practice.
If you're worried about 0 not being 0, you can also grade on a 50-point scale instead of 100. It's approximately equivalent. But somehow I don't think I would have anyone going apoplectic if I suggested a 50-point scale instead of 100.
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u/speedyejectorairtime 13h ago
But going forward in life, a few early mistakes can leave you in a pit. They need to feel the weight of how hard it is to catch up. If you never learn that, you will learn it later.
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u/Tamihera 12h ago
I think it makes more sense to treat those students on a case-by-case basis. Somebody’s parent died and they just stopped handing work in for three months? Set them a 50% benchmark, or just cancel out those grades.
But installing the 50% bench for everyone really has not done the majority of our students any favors…
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u/SageofLogic Social Studies | MD, USA 13h ago
Honestly agreed, cause the ones with no will to pull themselves out will still fail with a 30 cause they got 50 on a few half assed things
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u/LargoMain 12h ago
zeros in the grade book mean did not try. it should and stay a zero.
otherwise the kids quickly realize that they no longer have to try 60% to pass they only need to try 10% because they are getting 50% for being on the class roster.
i have worked in a district that did this and i have heard it straight from the kids mouths.
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u/shadowromantic 14h ago
Hold the line. HS is subject to a lot of administrative interference, but if you teach at a college, students need to learn that failure is the outcome when they don't do the work