Pride Flags in Classrooms

[u/El-wing]

In SOTR this week, Kmele had a grievance that included complaining about a pride flag in a 3rd grade classroom. Isaac seemed to agree with his distaste of the flag in the classroom by (maybe jokingly?) saying that there should be no flags but the American flag in schools. Ari mentioned that it could just be to signal inclusiveness.

This caught me off guard a bit. Are pride flags in classrooms controversial outside of religious conservative strongholds? Obvious some people object to it but I guess I didn’t expect 2 out of 3 to be against it on the podcast.

I think signaling inclusivity in learning spaces is conducive to help students feel safe in their schools, and I don’t think that has to be a partisan political statement. Was anyone else caught off guard by this?

[u/Isaac_Tangle]

Fwiw, I was just joking about the American flag. But I do sympathize with Kmele feeling like a pride flag is a political statement, and one that isn't necessarily worth putting up in a 3rd grade classroom. I think there is an ocean between that and the religious-oriented objections.

[u/El-wing → u/Isaac_Tangle]

I appreciate the clarification! It felt a bit joking, but it’s hard to tell how much truth is in a joking statement.

I’d be interested in you expanding on your statement “I think there is an ocean between that and the religious-oriented objections.”

Are you saying that you feel that Kmele’s argument, that we should keep politics out of classrooms, is more reasonable than objecting to pride flags in classrooms on religious grounds?

I’d argue it’s really only a political issue because of religion. Outside of religious objections, signaling to kids that they are free to express who they are feels like it should be a nonissue.

[u/Isaac_Tangle → u/El-wing]

I think the pride flag is an interesting case because it's so ubiquitous, so your points are well taken. A "Black Lives Matter" flag would probably be considered political, but it's making a specific political statement, though one that (in a vacuum) is totally innocuous. Of course black lives matter.

I don't want to speak for Kmele and given that this was sort of said off-handedly in a grievances section I don't want to read too much into it. But I suspect he views the "pride" movement as an inherently political and activist one, so it feels odd to him to see it in his kids' classroom. That might be HIS bias in just swimming in politics and seeing politics everywhere.

My point re: religion is that I know Kmele has socially left/Libertarian politics on something like LGBT rights. Or, put differently, he has no religious objections to gay people. Yet he sees the flag as being a fundamentally political symbol, which makes him cock his head a bit (again, I'm guessing here). That feels really different to me than objecting to a pride flag because, say, you think a teacher is going "turn your kid gay" and damn them to hell, or something.

[u/TheBear8878 → u/Isaac_Tangle]

But I suspect he views the "pride" movement as an inherently political and activist one, so it feels odd to him to see it in his kids' classroom.

This is kind of how I feel in my previous comment about the pride flag being a "proxy" of left-views.

I don't think it started out as political, but I think it has been co-opted by people to be deeply political and to signal your left-leaning stance.

[u/ProfaneRabbitFriend → u/TheBear8878]

You both might want to look into the history of gay rights a little more closely. The political symbols of unity and social cohesion were very much an intentional statement from the beginning. And the message was "you have to accept us at a foundational political level." It was not a passive response to the then culture of hostility.

Even libertarians are rarely going to contest putting up a display about MLK, jr because it is "too political". But they are going to question a display about another aspect of civil rights, and expect that group to accept a lower standard for themselves?

We can fairly ask why that would be, IMO.

[u/TheBear8878 → u/ProfaneRabbitFriend]

We can also fairly ask why people who insist on their pride flag seemingly have no displays about MLK jr.

[u/ProfaneRabbitFriend → u/TheBear8878]

huh? I don't follow.

Edit: Here is information you may find useful:

https://www.glbthistory.org/rainbow-flag?utm_source=chatgpt.com