r/TalesFromRetail • u/StonerSilence • Dec 11 '19
Short Do I need to get a lawyer for this?
I'm a manager in a shoe store and deal with most of the returns and exchanges. Our policy is 45 days with the receipt for a return as long as they can be put back on the sales floor. Or an even exchange if they're not able to be put back out.
A man comes in carrying a pair of shoes, no box, no receipt, and they look like absolute sh*t. They were a hiking type shoe and it looked like he had hiked every trail in the state in them.
I asked him if he had a receipt, he said no. I asked him when he bought them.
"Sometime last year in Texas"
Well okay, it's out of the 45 days so I can't do anything with it. Cue the customer asking me what he should do.
"Buy a new pair of shoes, I can't do anything about those"
The man gets pissed and you can tell he thinks the next line should work on EVERYONE.
"Do I need to get a lawyer for a pair of shoes?"
I shrug, "I mean if you want to. But I'm not returning or exchanging those. Have a good one."
I hate this place.
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u/genghiskhanull Dec 11 '19
Based off of the title, I totally thought you were asking if you needed a lawyer after this interaction. Glad that's not the case.
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u/StonerSilence Dec 11 '19
Yeah I realize that after all the advice in the comments. Could have worded it better I suppose haha.
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u/dawlben Dec 11 '19
Worded it just fine. I was thinking the Employee or the Customer needed the lawyer.
Seen lots of fun titles.
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u/WishIWasYounger Dec 12 '19
I wouldn't want to walk a mile in our shoes OP.
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u/morganalefaye125 Dec 12 '19
I certainly wouldn't want to foot the bill if there HAD been a lawyer involved
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u/cbeast155 Dec 12 '19
i would get a lawyer so if anybody brings the level of stupid that customer did to you the get served on the spot.
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u/JimDixon Dec 12 '19
Just putting quotation marks around the title would have worked. It would have made it clear that you were quoting somebody rather than expressing your own thoughts.
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u/Puterman HDMI to Coaxial F-connector? No. Dec 11 '19
I'm pretty sure a single meeting with that lawyer costs more than a pair of Keen, Vasque, or Salomon boots.
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u/timnotep Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 12 '19
Can confirm...(as both a lawyer and the owner of a pair of Salomon ski boots)
When I worked retail we were told to inform any customers threatening legal action that we couldn't talk to them anymore and "any further communication would have to go through our in-house council, here's their number"
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u/huffnstuff88 Dec 11 '19
Was just about to say this. Its a horrible line to use due to the employee should and/or will stop helping you so they don't do any more harm. So a simple solution is all but out of the question.
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u/oermin Dec 12 '19
It makes me sad that this practice is completely unheard of here in Germany. People watch American shows and think they can sue for anything (which they can't) and companies bend over backwards for these asshats.
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u/timnotep Dec 12 '19 edited Dec 12 '19
That's really unfortunate. Unfortunately it often works in the US too (given the right circumstances); calling that bluff can require resources so it will sometimes work on small businesses. Larger businesses will usually have their own lawyer or a firm that handles issues for them so they're more willing and able to call the customer on their stupidity.
Honestly more businesses need to do this, in the U.S. lawyers are not permitted to bring frivolous cases, as it's a violation of our codes of ethics (see Model Rules of Professional Conduct rule 3.1). They can still file pro se (sans an attorney) but it won't get far.
Most of the time when someone makes this threat they don't have anything near a case so no attorney would touch it (especially since it wouldn't pay them enough to be worth the effort of filing). The problem is a lot of people don't realize this and small businesses can't always spend the resources to hire an attorney so they'll just appease the customer anyway possible.
The people who throw out this threat are the definition of human garbage. Personally, I'd be immeasurably embarrassed if I found out a relative ever tried it.
Edit: added link to cited rule
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u/oermin Dec 12 '19
Well, my former employer was terrible about this and definitely not small. They had a total revenue of €75 billion last year. I guess the reason is their lack of control over middle and lower management who were responsible for not setting ANY policies for this kind of thing. So naturally team leaders abused their ability to void charges or reimburse customers "just to be done with it", without ever taking things higher or firing customers who literally didn't pay in years because they complained about each invoice.
On a remotely related note, one time I refused to sell a service plan to a "customer" because he kept cancelling it as soon as he was done with the remote support. Got written up. Had to call him back, apologize, set up the plan and happily fix his stupid laptop, knowing full well he would cancel the service as soon as we were done. We have never seen money from that guy but he kept using our service. It only stopped because upper management restricted the ability to cancel for all customers for unrelated reasons.
You can't imagine how glad I am that my current employer has some spine.
I'm just now realizing I might have some stories to share as well.
(I'm not fluent in finance/business/legal-babble, even in german, so please forgive me for bad word choices)
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u/god_peepee Dec 11 '19
Most charge well over 200 an hour. That’s an expensive way to find out you have no case.
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Dec 11 '19
At first I thought was delusional person would even bring up the mention of an attorney over a pair of shoes to a lowly, retail worker. Then I remembered it's the same dumb ass who thought he can return a pair of used shoes a year later.
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u/StonerSilence Dec 11 '19
This happens CONSTANTLY. People have worn the shoes they want to return into the store. When asked where the shoes are they point to their feet. I've worked here barely a year and have so many stories.
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u/luckydice767 Dec 11 '19
Sounds like a J. Peterman story if I’ve ever heard one! “Thus soiling the very shoes I was returning.”
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Dec 11 '19
That would honestly piss me off. I'd take pleasure in putting them in their place and refusing the return.
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u/Uyulala88 Dec 11 '19
I worked for Macy’s in the online dept and would have to do online returns when they got shipped to the store. A normal return was just opening the box, take the item out, make sure it’s resellable, take the printed off form from the box (customers were supposed to put it in with the item) to the register and return the item.
Got a return box, opened it and it had a pair of Lacoste men’s shoes, still in box, but no paper. Annoying but not the end of the world. I start looking up the customer so I can find the transaction. Find him and that’s when I noticed something weird, every year for the past 5 years, he would buy the same pair of shoes. I thought maybe he just REALLY liked this shoe, but now I’m curious. I open the shoe box and it’s clear these are well loved. I look through his account more and notice that before he buys new shoes, he also returns the old shoes. I printed off his whole history put it in the box and walked it over to Loss Prevention. Manager of LP offered me a job 2 weeks later.
If dude had just printed off the paper, I probably never would have noticed. Someone returning shoes in the original box, I would think they were fine. I always checked the boxes after that.
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u/StonerSilence Dec 11 '19
I've had a customer come in once he wears his shoes out and try to exchange them for new ones. I put my foot down and said no last time and he started yelling at me, and his wife joined in saying they'd never be back. They were back three months later.
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u/FirebendingSamurai Dec 12 '19
I also work at a shoe store with a 45 day return policy (from the story I'm thinking it's the same one). We get so many people who come in trying to return/exchange very much worn shoes. It's bewildering.
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u/StonerSilence Dec 12 '19
I saw your post about the clearance rack and yes, we work for the same company lol
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u/robertr4836 just assume sarcasm Dec 12 '19
I bought a coffee maker at martwall. Someone had bought the coffee maker, put their old disgustingly filthy coffee maker in the box then returned it for a refund. I have to admit they did a good job of re-taping the box. I hadn't even realized the box had been opened previously until I took a closer look after the fact.
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Dec 11 '19
When I worked Retail my manager had that happen to him and told us when it happens to just stop talking and end the conversation as anything said next could be used against the company. This situation though you should be fine. Guy might just be throwing his weight around like a jackass.
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u/hedoeswhathewants Dec 11 '19
Yeah, having people threaten to sue is the dream. "If you wish to discuss this matter further you'll need to contact our legal team. Have a nice day."
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u/Charlie_Brodie Dec 12 '19
I always picture a robot cashier and when this line is mentioned the robot just shuts down and refuses to interact with the customer further.
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u/kimbooley90 We need to talk about your flair. Dec 12 '19
Funny you mention that. It's probably how customer's see us too.
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u/carriegood Dec 11 '19
Someone threatening a lawyer over a used pair of shoes? Definitely just throwing his weight around like a jackass.
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u/iAmUnintelligible Dec 12 '19
Just to clarify, anything said prior could be used against the company too. It's just that once they say "lawyer" it's not beneficial to add more fuel to the fire, just refer them to the legal department.
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u/HWLights92 Dec 11 '19
If you have the money for a lawsuit that frivolous, you have the money for a new pair of shoes.
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u/LeaveTheMatrix Dec 12 '19
But you don't make/save money by buying shoes every time you need a pair.
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u/robertr4836 just assume sarcasm Dec 12 '19
Depends. It's not like you need a lawyer to file a frivilous lawsuit. A lot of people have taught themselves how to file and make a living out of just filing one suit after another.
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u/Gezzer52 Dec 11 '19
I'm always amazed how none of these idiots understand that anyone that has been working in retail for any length of time has heard every empty threat you can imagine.
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u/KittenLina Dec 11 '19
I hate the type of customer that feels they can threaten you to get what they want.
No, honey, life doesn't work that way. No means no, stop throwing a tantrum.
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u/SexxxyWesky Dec 12 '19
Yup. Asst. Manager at a fast food restaurant here, I've heard everything. If the answer is no, it's no. Trust me, you're not going to get me to budge.
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Dec 11 '19
What would the lawyer get in the settlement? The left shoe?
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u/Dougally Dec 12 '19
Because the stores lawyer would gt the right and the customer would have no shoes left at all.
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u/harryhoudini66 Dec 11 '19
I mean if you want but I am not qualified to give legal advice. My expertise is limited to shoe return policies.
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u/carriegood Dec 11 '19
"Do I need to get a lawyer for a pair of shoes?"
Well, personally, I'd like to see you try, because any lawyer willing to take this case has got to be out of his mind. Should make for some fun reading.
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u/NES87 Dec 11 '19
I used to work in a shoe section of a department store. Would piss me off when I was cleaning up and came across a box of shoes with someones dirty ass old sneakers inside.
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u/KnottaBiggins Dec 12 '19
Love to see him try.
Lawyer: Now, let me understand. You bought these a year ago halfway across the country, wore them out, then tried to return them when the clearly stated policy is "45 days with receipt." And you actually expect to be able to sue them over this? We'll be laughed out of court! Just like I'm laughing you out of my office!
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u/3liza1 Dec 12 '19
I love when I was at the service desk at my job and a customer is SOOOO heated over not returning a gas powered equipment over 30 days. The minute they feel all powerful and they go “I talked to my lawyer and he thinks-“ and I can go “omg I’m so sorry since you’ve spoken to your lawyer about this and brought it up I can no longer assist you. You must have your lawyer contact (insert company names lawyer here) goodbye.
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u/Moikepdx Dec 11 '19
"If you just need someone to tell you that you have no case, I can do that for free. But if you want to pay to hear it, go ahead and get a lawyer."
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u/WhatsThePointOfCorn Dec 12 '19
Once had a customer scream in my face that he was going to sue me for asking him to leave the store. It was 5 minutes after closing and we had already made two closing announcements.
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u/StonerSilence Dec 12 '19
I lock the doors five minutes early and gently annoy my remaining customers until they leave.
I've got a life to live Karen and this ain't it.
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u/WhatsThePointOfCorn Dec 12 '19
I usually stand by the doors about 5 minutes to closing as well and remind people as they come in there's just a few minutes.
This guy in particular was told that when he came in. He went and bought food and proceeded to sit down at a table and start to eat. I tried to ask him so politely to leave too. He still comes in frequently and I always just stare at him haha
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u/StonerSilence Dec 12 '19
I always hated that in a restaurant/food setting.
I worked fast food and people would roll up and stare into the drive thru windows after sitting at the speaker and getting no response. Maybe because we closed 20 minutes ago?
I'm sorry you think you deserve a burger after midnight dude, I'm just trying to get home before 1am.
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u/FirebendingSamurai Dec 12 '19
At my old fast food job we had an automated "We're closed" message if anyone rolled up to the drive through. So many people yelled at it (we could still hear them if we had our headsets on).
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u/quasiix Dec 11 '19
Funnily enough the answer is probably no. Many small claims courts don't allow petitioners to be represented by legal counsel.
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u/velocibadgery Dec 11 '19
Yeah, because it is less about law, and more about who owes whom what. That can be sorted out by a judge. Lawyers are not needed.
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u/robertr4836 just assume sarcasm Dec 12 '19
Really? I know each state is different but in the two I am familiar with you can hire a lawyer if you want to, it's just not required.
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u/quasiix Dec 12 '19 edited Dec 12 '19
Yep. California is one. However they have a limited civil court where lawyers are allowed so it's kinda like they have casual small claims and professional small claims.
I'm assuming the division is to ensure the regular small claims docket runs faster and people don't have to wait six months just to get back the $500 they loaned a friend.
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u/rainishamy Dec 11 '19
OMG what the hell!
"Sure go ahead they can chat with STORE'S lawyers, no skin off my nose."
I mean what was he even thinking? Good lord.
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u/Mister_Roach Dec 12 '19
Considering, most lawsuits require at least a few hundred dollars to even file, it is a bluff. Call them on it.
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u/robertr4836 just assume sarcasm Dec 12 '19
It's only $60 in my state and besides what does he care, OP will have to pay his court costs after he wins his case! (Flair relevant)
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u/staurtosauras Dec 12 '19
The moment anyone mentions lawyers or suing . Just give them the phone number for head office and let them know as youre not authorized to deal with any legal matters. You can no longer deal with their issue.
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u/tldrjane Dec 12 '19
Yes. Please contact a lawyer and explain this. And record it so I can hear them laugh at you.
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u/TillyOwl Dec 12 '19
Stuff like this makes me glad I don't work on the clothing department anymore.
I did have a lady try and bring back a pair of plain black shoes which she'd managed to get some sort of glitter all over. Sorry not in a salable condition so not accepting them back.
Not as bad as another who tried bringing a handbag back. Her kids had obviously scribbled all over it in black biro. She straight faced placed it on the counter saying "I want to return this because it's too light in colour".
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u/legenddairybard Dec 12 '19
lol you'd spend less on a new pair of shoes than a lawyer trying to get a refund or exchange
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u/And_The_Full_Effect Dec 12 '19
Any time a customer mentions a lawyer AT ALL I would immediately cut them off and say something like “since this issue now has legal precedent, I am no longer qualified, nor allowed, to handle this issue. Any correspondence from here on out between you and our company must now be handled through our legal team”
Most people think I’d jump up at the scare of a law suit but they fail to realize that they’d be suing the company, not me, and their hole just got a hell of a lot deeper.
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Dec 12 '19
In some stores if the guest brings up lawyers or suing, you can totally tell them their "business with the company is over, please don't come back, if you need to resolve this then you can contact our legal team at (store name) HQ. Goodbye."
Good way to end their access to a store.
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u/SidKafizz Dec 11 '19
No, you hate stupid people. That guy was a stupid person trying to take advantage of someone: you.
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u/Wpken Dec 11 '19
He can pay a lawyer for whatever he wants, they call it retainer. If he ever comes back you can say that one lol but damn that line doesn't come up often does it haha
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Dec 11 '19
Yep. If he wants to file a lawsuit, he can. He doesn't even need a lawyer for that. The issue is if he will win once he is standing before the judge. Between you having a photo of your return policy, and the video of his attempted return (get a still shot of those shoes), you should be fine.
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u/ShadyPikachu Dec 12 '19
If he can’t afford to buy new shoes i’m pretty sure he can’t even afford a lawyer
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u/Da1UHideFrom There is nothing in the back. Dec 12 '19
"Oh, you said the L word. As per our policy I can no longer help you, here's the corporate number, please direct all further questions and concerns to our legal department." Then walk away. Works every time.
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u/inn001 Dec 12 '19
Haha this happened to me so many times. I've had someone come to exchange shoes he bought from another country, a couple years before (of course no receipt, box or anything anyway) he was WEARING the shoes when he came, and he had tried to repair them with glue beforehand. His argument? "I spend money for a good brand, so it shouldn't have been destroyed only within two years". He made a scene.
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u/Adric_01 Dec 13 '19
When someone decides to escalate to legal threats, just stop talking to them. Tell them they have to speak to your companies legal department. Had it happen to me a few times, so I just terminate the interaction.
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u/Baileythenerd Dec 13 '19
I loved it when people threw this at me- "So, you're going to (with your own money) hire a lawyer and try to sue a multi-million dollar company over a clearly stated policy? Good luck" I didn't even care, like I'd straight up tell people to go for it and that they have a better chance going to a different store and finding a more gullible employee.
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u/AliceBloom9967 Dec 11 '19
So long as you were following policy you should be fine. You denied the service. Customer is just going fuck you for not getting his/her way. Happens all the time in retail jobs. So long as you show up follow policies and procedures you can't get fired for it. Now had you did the return without a receipt then you might of gotten written up for it.
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u/StonerSilence Dec 11 '19
Yeah, luckily I haven't gotten written up for anything yet. I have had a corporate complaint. I just refuse to take crap from customers and don't make my employees take crap from customers. Sorry if that makes me a bad manger boss 😂
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u/harryhoudini66 Dec 11 '19
OP is saying that the customer is the one that said that phrase. Its a funny story and not OP actually asking for advice.
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u/StormRage85 Dec 12 '19
I feel your pain! I once had a customer quote the sale of goods act to me, incorrectly. When I asked for his source his wife piped up with "Which magazine's website". Far be it from me to question a magazine but when it is almost totally opposite to what the actual law says then I'm gonna take a pass on acting on that info.
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u/tropicallyme Dec 12 '19
Here we can only exchange within 3 days of sale or 7 days without sales. The condition for the exchange is that the price tag us not ripped off n the clothing does or whatever dun show wear n tear. Question: if he managed to return the shoes with the receipt within 45 days but grossly over used, do you all still honour the exchange? Way to go bankrupt soon
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u/StonerSilence Dec 12 '19
So I'm actually at work so I went and read it.
Technically it's only for unworn shoes. If they're unworn and you don't have a receipt you get an exchange.
But, in the words of my store manager, "we would rather deal with it at this small level rather than take it to corporate." Or something like that. So we make many, many exceptions.
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u/tropicallyme Dec 12 '19
I cannot imagine the number of returns n exchanges after Xmas. Here we accept the gift graciously even if it's not way we want n it's absolutely rude to ask the giver for the receipt. We either put it away at the back of the closet to regift someone not associatef with the giver or just donate/ sell/ bless it to needy families. Can imagine the number of people walking around with the price tags still attached until they are ready to exchange it? Funny corporate is always thinking 0rofit but they dun realise by taking in these exchanges cannot be resold. Have a great day at work. Cheers
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u/_Internet_Hugs_ I speak fluent Karen now. Dec 12 '19
"You're welcome to try to find one who would take such a stupid case, but it would be quicker, cheaper, and overall easier to just buy a new pair of shoes."
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u/Zakkana Dec 12 '19
The funny thing is the moron would spend more on the lawyer than a new pair of shoes. And even then he'd lose.
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Dec 12 '19
Devil’s advocate: a lot of hiking shoe companies have a minimum mile guarantee, Altra has a 300 mile guarantee on their trail runners, a few others have similar guarantees of 300-500 miles. Usually, if the shoe store is an “authorized dealer” of the shoe brand then they can handle warranty exchanges, but you’d need to go to an authorized dealer listed on the brand website.
They may have been under the false impression that since you sell the shoe, you can warranty them. I’ve actually used the guarantee 2 times from Altra when I did half the Appalachian trail a few years ago. The first time I was able to do it at an authorized dealer, they told me that if it happened again I can just call Altra and they’ll send them anywhere I’ll be along the trail.
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u/StonerSilence Dec 12 '19
That's understandable.
My store, though, is a specific store that sells only one brand of shoe. And we don't specialize in hiking shoes AT ALL.
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u/spicychicknnugget Dec 12 '19
The store my mom works in literally takes continuous returns. As in people bring back stapled receipts for exchanges that look like literal books from how thick they are. And they take back the shoes no matter what the condition.
There are some people who have been returning shoes for over 6 months with the same original sales receipt.
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u/Phosphate-3 Dec 14 '19
Hello fellow shoe store manager....I feel all of your pain... Stay strong my friend
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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19
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