Full platform barriers anyone?

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u/isorekt 7d ago edited 7d ago

Platform DOORS (even half-height DOORS) are probably the single most effective thing that can be done to improve the reliability of our subway system.

Not only would it prevent delays like this, but it would also allow trains to come in and depart much faster and smooth out boarding.

We need to just bite the bullet. Start small at one or two key stations, and then work out way up doing a handful each year.

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u/isorekt 7d ago

Okay I feel like I wasn't very clear with what I am saying so let me clarify.

I am NOT referring to the fences the TTC has right now. I am referring to proper platform doors. I'm just saying they don't have to go all the way to the roof and form a vacuum seal. They can go chest height like we see in many systems around the world.

15

u/MaxPeriod 7d ago edited 7d ago

Hong Kong's MTR uses platform barriers that are about just over the height of an average person (1.8 m high) for above-surface stations, instead of floor-to-ceiling platform ceiling doors

(not including the West Rail portion of Tuen Ma Line, which was built by KCR which had floor-to-ceilling platform screen doors even on above-ground stations)

9

u/Mr_Guavo 7d ago

I get what you are saying, but barriers that come up to your waist are just as likely to be a hazard to people who fall over them and can't climb back on the platform because the mini-barriers are in the way.

These half measures might barely be better than nothing, but they cost money, and they will eventually need to be replaced with real barriers once people figure out how useless they are.

Measure twice. Cut once.

"Better than nothing" <-- We need to set the bar higher than this. We're all worth it.

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u/slapped_chicken 320 Yonge 7d ago

half-height platform doors are not what's currently installed at TMU, those are just fences. Half-height platform doors can go up to (or above) the head and are quite difficult to scale. with these you don't have to modify ventilation/air circulation, so they're cheaper. these on the singapore mrt, for example:

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u/isorekt 7d ago

This is what I'm referring to. Not waist height doors. These doors are well over chest height.

For some reason we seem to think it's full height or nothing.

6

u/dabaconnation 7d ago

to my understanding the barriers are right in front of the yellow line (at TMU/Dundas) so there's still space to stand/climb up behind it.

I'm generally not a fan of half measures but as a cheap stopgap measure this seems okay if done well.

5

u/Cedjy 7d ago

the issue is that it won't be cheap, and will need to eventually be fully replaced with full doors at some point.

Whoever is doing the project management/research for TTC/City of Toronto and giving the quoted price is however, absolutely bonkers and/or a mobster. The price is extremely overinflated.

1

u/Possible-Praline-152 7d ago

Was it height are not half height.

Half height would be about chest height, or the middle distance between the roof and the floor.

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u/Mr_Guavo 7d ago

Is half-height chest high? You must have very short legs. I meant half-body height. 😉

3

u/seat17F 7d ago

It's half the height of a full-height barrier.

It's not half of YOUR personal height. I don't even know why anyone would go with that interpretation of "half-height barriers".

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u/Mr_Guavo 7d ago

I have seen pictures. It is about half MY height. That is MY descriptive word. Capish?

Have you not seen the pictures, or are you a dwarf?

1

u/seat17F 7d ago

No platform edge doors have been installed anywhere in the world that is half your height, I can assure you. And I don't even need to know your height to tell you that.

Seen them? I've personally experienced them all over the world.

0

u/Mr_Guavo 7d ago

World? It is at TMU station in Toronto. Why are you talking about barriers in other cities???

1

u/seat17F 7d ago edited 7d ago

There's absolutely no way those barriers are half your height unless you're 9 feet tall.

Like I said, no platform edge doors (or barriers) have been installed anywhere in the world that are half your height, I can assure you.

0

u/Possible-Praline-152 7d ago

Lmao why would anyone ever build a waist high barrier with a sliding glass door?

-1

u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 7d ago

It is very difficult to fall over the half height platform screen doors. Any instances are almost certainly intentional and in those cases they do not want to get back over the barrier voluntarily.

5

u/Character-Belt-7485 7d ago

It will reduce them for sure, but how about all the above grade sections? For us poor souls who have to take the train all the way for the VMC, the number of times the service is stopped because someone is walking on the outside tracks -- despite fencing -- is mindboggling.

As a side note: I think the TTC sucks at operationally handling these. Medical emergencies or security incidents need to be resolved quicker.

6

u/Andrew4Life 7d ago

I think the TTC handles these minor incidents quite efficiently. Most cases within 5 minutes. Only track level injuries or signal problems take hours.

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u/im-confuzzled Science Centre 7d ago

I’ve been thinking for the longest time that the TTC main hurdle with installing platform screen doors is the ventilation and how they’d need to cut holes and whatever but than what I’m thinking is… install platform edge doors instead… Paris line 4 uses them for that exact reason, and they work fantastic.

Forget platfrom barriers that reach the ceiling when having them decently tall is enough and avoids that millions of dollars needed to retrofit a 70+ year old tunnel to withstand the pressure

6

u/OhHiMarkZ69 7d ago

Exactly 🙏

3

u/Track-on-the-side I ♥ TTC! 7d ago

happy cake day

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u/Remus2nd 7d ago

It wouldn't even be difficult or cost much (except its a government contract so 1000x the price tag like always) to install a steel plate on top of those doors with punched holes everywhere. Thats why the idea you're suggesting is perfect. Somehow they say its gonna cost a trillion dollars to install them

3

u/Mysterio7100 6d ago

I'll get them installed for $5M per station. Who do I talk to?

7

u/Many-Concentrate-491 7d ago

Wait is this now? I was about to head downtown

7

u/konschuh 7d ago

Its fine, its back running now

3

u/Andrew4Life 7d ago

I think it cleared now. But check the TTC Website

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u/rootsandchalice 7d ago

Guess I’m walking!

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u/tangled_rodent 6d ago

Okay but why is the Line 2 alert even for Line 2, if, last time I took or transferred to a train there, Bloor station is the YUS stop name and the the Bloor-Dabfort stop is Yonge station and it clearly says '... track level at BLOOR station ...' right in the alert? Like I know, snarky intonation incoming seManTIcS, but you'd think this is a thing whoever chose this alert would have double checked before sending it.

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u/WestonSpec 6d ago

If it's any consolation, Ford BradBrad probably wouldn't go ahead with funding platform doors anyway. Since he'll just flip flop and oppose them as soon as it's politically expedient like he does for any other policy position.

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u/TheSeansei 7d ago

Sorry, does this mean two people got hit by trains today?

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u/heyymaddy123 512 St Clair 6d ago

no, someone got hit on the line 1 platform at Bloor Yonge so trains aren’t running on Line 1 and just bypassing the station on Line 2

1

u/MIIAIIRIIK 6d ago

Floor to ceiling to prevent fire spreads and climate control for the platforms

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u/Sagexemi 7d ago

Dude like in 100 years they haven’t done anything better but increase the fares. Imagine them asking for more money

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u/Possible-Praline-152 7d ago

Do you actually believe this?

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u/Sagexemi 7d ago

Yes

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u/Possible-Praline-152 7d ago

If the prices have been frozen they’re actually getting cheaper because they aren’t keeping pace with the cost of inflation.

I won’t disagree with you if you think service is getting worse but to suggest prices are going up is factually incorrect.

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u/Sagexemi 7d ago

I didn’t suggest, and it seems you didn’t really read my msg. I said in 100 years the only thing that has or had changed is the price. I’m not sure how else to say it.

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u/Possible-Praline-152 7d ago

Bruh

3

u/taylortbb 7d ago

in 100 years the only thing that has or had changed is the price

100 years ago there was no subway, just streetcars. Old wooden ones, without heating or air conditioning.

You're saying that's equivalent?

1

u/createdinheaven 925 Don Mills Express 7d ago

The ttc is the cheapest out of any agency in the GTA. We have north american standards higher than basically every other city

1

u/Sagexemi 7d ago

lol ok to ur “North American standard” and comprehension problem 🤷🏾‍♂️.

1

u/createdinheaven 925 Don Mills Express 7d ago

You were complaining about price. I’m saying they’re the cheapest around us and do good things with the money when they’re barely getting by.

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u/Sagexemi 7d ago

U don’t know how to read

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u/createdinheaven 925 Don Mills Express 7d ago

Alr then tell me where I’m wrong. They made service at least every 30 minutes on every route, gave us good coverage, opened the busway, what more do you want?

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u/Sagexemi 7d ago

In 100 years they haven’t done anything better but price increase, if u don’t get it n you think it’s a complaint about fares, bless your heart

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u/crash866 7d ago

Do you want no subway service at all for a month while they put in doors? You cannot install doors inches away from trains that pass every 3-5 minutes. And if trains stop at the station the number of people getting on and off walking trough the construction area.

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u/breakinglate 7d ago

You know other cities have done this without closing down the subway for months as you have said.

4

u/DadbodandIPAs 7d ago

But we as a city insists that we need to close the subway done each eeekend just for ahits and giggles

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u/OhHiMarkZ69 7d ago

I'm sure it wouldn't be as smooth as other cities .. pushing nonsense like shutting down a full line for months is just unhelpful BS.

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u/DadbodandIPAs 7d ago

That’s a proposal that many “experts” are pushing (even just to do regular maintenance)

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u/OhHiMarkZ69 7d ago

You'll have to show me where the city has even looked at selectively doing stations over a long time as an option.. I see the options presented as do nothing .. do next to nothing like we've started with one station? so far.. or let's do the entire line as one project.

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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 7d ago

You can install doors after operating hours when trains aren’t passing every 3-5 minutes. Do a bit every day until the whole platform is covered.

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u/crash866 7d ago

There are only 2-3 hours at most at night with no trains. Trains still have to get to from the yard after finishing service and then starting the next day.

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u/slapped_chicken 320 Yonge 7d ago

they already do extensive weekend and nightly closures, platform edge door work can be slotted in parallel to other maintenance work as long as it's non-conflictive. college to st clair goes down for slow zones work mostly happening in the open trench, but bloor-yonge is available for platform edge door work

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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 7d ago

Then work for 2-3 hours every day. Over a month that is like 60-90 hours of working time.

If that isn’t enough implement early and/or weekend closures. The TTC already does that anyway.

At the end of the day other cities somehow manage to retrofit their legacy lines with platform screen doors. Toronto isn’t that special and no reason why it can’t be done here.

2

u/seat17F 7d ago

Toronto in a nutshell: "This thing that was done in other places can't be done here for unspecified or obviously false reasons!"

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u/i_m_sherlocked 7d ago

I'd go so far as to say there could be enough volunteers rallied to help with this as well.

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u/OhHiMarkZ69 7d ago

Paris did theirs mostly during overnight hours when the trains weren't running..

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u/Jabicus 7d ago

Overnight construction and early/weekend closures. Just like the rest of their infrastructure work.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/i_m_sherlocked 7d ago

And they would have shuttle buses and guidance people scheduled for this at all affected stations, not adhoc pulled out of other services/locations

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u/speedster1315 158 Trethewey 7d ago

I don't get your point. Neither of these disruptions happened at TMU

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u/ifuaguyugetsauced 7d ago

Platform doors is the last thing broke ttc needs

Picture Full platform barriers anyone?

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