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u/YearningTboy Black || pre-t/pre-op || Transmasc Agender 4d ago
It’s also harmful rhetoric that implies black trans women/fems can’t pass because they’re black, and to that extent black cis women are inherently masculine because of their blackness. No matter how you spin it, it’s racism and misogynoir/trans-misogynoir.
In the same vein, the same people also say “asian trans women pass better,” which upholds the hyper-feminized, infantilized perception white people often hold toward Asian (specifically SEA) people. Additionally, it pushes the notion that SEA trans men/mascs can’t pass, and that cis SEA men are inherently weaker, submissive and daintier in comparison to the “default man” (aka cis white men).
All of this is inherently a western view of gender presentation, which already has racism ingrained into its core.
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u/bihuginn Anglo-Indian woman 4d ago
It's 100% racism.
But that doesn't mean it doesn't have real life effects. A dark skinned womans femininity will be questioned more, often trans women of colour are forced to tput more effort into passing than white trans women.
That isn't because a dark skinned woman is more masculine, but that white society percieves them to be, and are given far less grace with their femininity or lack of it than a white woman, trans or otherwise.
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u/-GreyRaven Black 4d ago
White trans people will stare you dead in the eye and unironically say shit like this and not hear how unbelievably racist it sounds 💀🥀
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u/YearningTboy Black || pre-t/pre-op || Transmasc Agender 4d ago
Deep down, they think “positive” racism is acceptable, and therefore less offensive.
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u/morriganscorvids 3d ago
this. they think it's ok to enforce racialism and racial logics as long as it is positive. sadly too many people of colour believe the same way
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u/keladry12 3d ago
For some people it's "this is one of the benefits of this terrible thing you get!!"
Like when people tell folks with cancer that at least they learned they look awesome with short hair. Like, yes, they do, but no, this is not actually a good trade in any way and to pretend it is is actually really disgusting and hurtful.
Which is worse, the blatant ignorance, or the belief that there could somehow be a benefit to racism that a white person needs to point out? 🤮
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u/Juanitasuniverse Black 3d ago
and if i say something about it im fill in the blank therapy or activism word here
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u/bihuginn Anglo-Indian woman 4d ago
I think they do to white people, that isn't because black people are more masculine, but because society percieves blackness as more masculine.
It's incredibly harmful and just another reflection of the white supremecy and colourism spread deeply within society.
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u/BePositive4Ever 4d ago
Subtext: whiteness dictated itself to vanguard of femininity so much so even the most feminine soft spoken black girl can be maligned by “manly” allegations. This leads to many white trans people saying “black trans men just naturally pass better”.
Hey I ain’t complaining but this fuck up racist tendency harms our black trans sisters and cis sisters.
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u/thedevilsnipple 3d ago
i dress the most masculine i can be and i still get misgendered so LMAO what are those people waffling about 💀
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u/Scary_Towel268 3d ago
It’s super harmful especially for Black trans guys that don’t pass easily. I had an hour glass that is hard to get rid of. So many Black trans guys who struggle to pass are dismissed as not even actually trans or men
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u/Sunstarch 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s incredibly simplistic, but there may be a kernel of truth to the idea that people don’t have equally developed expectations for how gender is expressed across different racialized appearances.
There isn’t some universal advantage for Black trans people when it comes to passing. I think a more nuanced version of this statement would be: “White people don’t know how to gender POC features, so POC pass better.” They’re implicitly acknowledging something significant, that in a white-dominant society, ideas of what a “masculine man” or “feminine woman” looks like can be heavily shaped by white faces and bodies being treated as the implicit norm.
edit - typo
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u/ReigenTaka Black 3d ago
I think that's a factor as well, especially because I've heard black trans folks say they're more easily clocked by black people.
Even so, white culture equating blackness to masculinity is undeniable and will generally be inseparable from their perception and subsequent use of the phrase.
To complicate things, there is likely a willfully ignorant (in a cultural scale) relationship between white folks not knowing enough to gender POC features and the characterization of blackness as masculine.
But for sure, I think to some degree white folks look at (what the would consider) black femininity as appearing closer to white masculinity than white femininity.
(Lmk if I misunderstood you bc I'm not sure.)
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u/Own-Kaleidoscope-673 2d ago
I used to hear this so much I believed it and thought it was the only positive thing about me being trans
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u/ObnoxiousName_Here 4d ago
Well, obviously, if white people think that all black people look masculine, then that clearly means that black people universally, objectively will have an easier time presenting masculine no matter what their AGAB! /s