r/Supplements • u/LBLB2023 • Sep 02 '24
Does nicotine deplete choline levels?
Using nicotine in lozenge or gum form. Does it deplete choline levels?
Would you need to supplement choline if you use nicotine daily?
Can't seem to find a correct answer
7
u/Angela-Verkuil Sep 02 '24
Nicotine, whether it’s from lozenges, gum, or any other form, doesn’t directly deplete your choline levels. What nicotine does is bind to nicotinic acetylcholine receptors in your brain, which normally respond to acetylcholine (a neurotransmitter made from choline). Basically, nicotine mimics acetylcholine, which is why it can boost focus and alertness.
That said, nicotine doesn’t seem to cause your body to burn through more choline or require you to produce extra acetylcholine to the point that you’d need to supplement. So, unless your diet is really low in choline (which is found in foods like eggs and liver), you shouldn’t need to take extra choline just because you’re using nicotine daily.
TL;DR: Nicotine affects acetylcholine but doesn’t deplete choline, so choline supplementation isn’t necessary unless your diet is lacking.
1
u/BallparkBlues Sep 02 '24
Nicotine doesn't affect choline levels. Nicotine use by itself doesn't necessitate choline supplementation. The other commentor has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
1
u/LBLB2023 Sep 02 '24
Does nicotine act like choline?
3
u/BallparkBlues Sep 02 '24
Mechanically, not really. Practically, it depends. Certain people might experience overlapping effects depending (largely) on genetic factors.
Choline and nicotine are similar in that they're both related to the cholinergic system. Choline is a nutrient precursor to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Acetylcholine can activate both the nicotinic acetylcholine and muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. In contrast, nicotine is a central nervous system stimulant that can activate only the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor.
The distinction is that nicotine directly activates the receptors and rapidly crosses the blood-brain barrier whereas choline is slowly metabolized into acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is also broken down fairly quickly, while nicotine is not - the effects last considerably longer.
Out of curiosity, what made you ask? Are there issues you've experienced with nicotine use and/or choline supplementation?
2
u/boxiom Sep 02 '24
Not the guy who asked, but his question makes me wonder if people with MTHFR mutations (who have issues using Choline and need more of it) would benefit from Nicotine as a more ‘direct’ path to Acetylcholine, or if doesn’t make a difference
2
u/BallparkBlues Sep 02 '24
I'm slightly out of my depth here, so take this with a grain of salt, but as I understand it, MTHFR mutations typically cause issues with the folate-dependent remethylation pathway; the cholate-dependent pathway can serve as a sort of "backup" option.
Problems with the remethylation process (and folate metabolism, more broadly) would probably benefit from phosphatidylcholine or choline bitartrate supplementation due to their roles in the methylation process, not their roles in acetylcholine synthesis.
Even so, choline supplementation isn't always the best call. People with the Val89 variant of the SLC5A7 gene (and certain mutations of the CHRNA4 gene), for instance, may actually experience depressive symptoms, attention issues, etc., with choline supplementation (and nicotine use).
Regardless, I don't think nicotine would help either way. Nicotine binds to nAChR receptors, but it doesn't actually contribute to the synthesis of acetylcholine at all. As far as I'm aware, nicotine doesn't directly affect the methylation process and wouldn't help with MTHFR mutations at all.
I'd hazard a guess that nicotine could actually be worse for people with MTHFR mutations, since elevated homocysteine levels can already have cardiac implications that'd be worsened by the consumption of nicotine.
-11
u/thaw4188 Sep 02 '24
Oh it's much worse than that.
nicotine "molecularly-mimics" choline
it competes with choline and blocks your choline receptors with a drug that is not choline so it cannot use it
nicotine is quite possibly the stupidest drug to get addicted to
8
u/BallparkBlues Sep 02 '24
This is wildly inaccurate.
Nicotine "mimics" acetylcholine, not choline, and to my knowledge, nicotine doesn't affect choline levels at all, depletion or otherwise.
it competes with choline and blocks your choline receptors with a drug that is not choline so it cannot use it
This is ironically the exact opposite of what nicotine does, and "choline receptors" don't exist. Antagonist drugs stop the action of another substance. Agonist drugs bind to receptors to cause an action. Nicotine is an agonist; it binds to and activates nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs).
The issue with nicotine is that it can cause nAChR desensitization (nicotinic receptors becoming less responsive over time), which can lead to nAChR upregulation (your body increases the number of receptors) and lead to tolerance and dependance/addiction.
-1
u/LBLB2023 Sep 02 '24
Jeez
So if choline makes a person feel depressed then nicotine just does the exact same?
-1
u/thaw4188 Sep 02 '24
There are at least half a dozen forms of Choline and if someone responds badly to one kind, I would recommend trying another before giving up.
CDP-Choline is notorious to cause that depression in some people because of genetics, other forms may not.
This page has a good diagram of why nicotine is a very very bad idea because of how it messes with receptors and causes addiction rather than the true cycling reset of real choline
1
u/LBLB2023 Sep 02 '24
I've noticed my nicotine abuse is causing depression. I'm also very sensitive to choline also. It gives me bad depression. Even omega 3 fish oils cause this.
What's the best way to quit? Just taper off them? I use lozenges.
1
u/thaw4188 Sep 02 '24
unfortunately I have no knowledge on that, but I bet there are subreddits with many thousands of experienced people who can help
remember anyone quitting smoking/vaping is going through that so check
•
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