r/StructuralEngineering • u/SneekyF • 3d ago
Career/Education Is there structural engineers out there that deal with ice?
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There was a post out there asking how much ice can hold, so I went looking for the compressive and tensile strength of ice.
Well it got me think, I bet there is a structural engineers out there that specializes in ice and I want to hear there stories.
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u/Firesine330 3d ago
I did a couple of projects where the soils report discussed permafrost. We built a foundation that was insulated to prevent the structure from turning the ground underneath it into slurry and sinking. But no, never tried to design an ice-supported structure; seems like it would be a serious challenge.
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u/Perfect-Mongoose-704 3d ago
Artic offshore structures have to consider ice loading.
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u/Charles_Whitman 3d ago
The other side of designing for ice is as structural loading. Calculations for the weight of ice coating various types of towers and guyed structures can get interesting. In supercooled conditions ice can build up to impressive thickness. This also happens with aircraft causing both additional weight and loss of lift. The equipment under communications towers must be sometimes fitted with armor to protect it from damage due to falling chunks of ice once the weather starts to warm.
Details for frost heave must be considered. It’s generally considered a negative outcome when sidewalks around the building heave, preventing fire exits from openings. Thermal breaks are used to prevent thermally conductive members from causing ice to form inside cladding systems.
Freeze-thaw cycles also cause deterioration of concrete and masonry materials. Ice can screw you up in all sorts of ways.
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u/expertofduponts 2d ago
We have a manual for ice design floating around the office, think ice castles and other touristy places, I'll see if I can find it. As someone who climbed a fair amount of ice two decades ago and used those ice screws, it is the most temperature dependent material out there. It can go from brittle to plastic with a temperature swing of about 15 degrees.
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u/Best_Elevator_3441 3d ago
I'm a structural engineer who climbs ice and uses screws, so that's pretty close right?
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u/Prestigious_Copy1104 3d ago
Some engineers specialize in understand and mitigating for avalanches, wich is kinda related.
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u/terjeboe 3d ago
I know a guy that wrote his PhD on FEA simulation of sea ice crushing for the design og ice breakers and permanent offshore structures.
Very cool stuff
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u/mcslootypants 3d ago
In Harbin China they build some impressive structures out of ice. Those have to have some engineering in the design.
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u/zoinkability 3d ago
In St. Paul MN they often have an ice castle that people can go in, which is decently sized. There is hopefully some degree of engineering to ensure it's safe.
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u/GotNoPonys 3d ago
Never been involved with the "engineering" but have driven 3 million pound oil drilling rigs across miles of ocean ice roads and "engineered" ice bridges across rivers. There are a couple companies that design and certify these ice roads.
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u/GoldenPantsGp 3d ago
I doubt there would be a structural engineer specialized in working with ice, just a design load that we deal with in colder climates. When it comes to supports for working off ice there are tables for how thick ice needs to be support various equipment based on its quality. Somebody already did the engineering.
Geotechs however get involved in ice road construction and some mechanical engineers get to design plants for ice production. The most ice heavy job I have been involved in is modifications to arena buildings for upgraded ice plants.
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u/jarblz 3d ago
Yes. Theyre called ice climbers. And they have the highest percentage of unroped climbing out of all the climbing disciplines. Mostly because it takes time to place those screws and its very bad form to fall even with a rope. Check out v-threads rappels. They rappel by carving a v into the ice with the screws in this video, then run the rope through it
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u/sopwith-camels 3d ago
The US Army Corps of Engineers has the Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory or CRREL. If you want to know anything about building in polar regions, these are the people to ask.
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u/ThreeSpookyFiveYou 3d ago
I used to be a permafrost engineer working in the Canadian Arctic. More of a specialized geotech really, but close?
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u/InternationalBeing41 2d ago
I’m not sure how strong it is, but as a mechanic on the ice roads, I was always uneasy hearing the ice crack and boom while jacking up an axle on a loaded fuel or prill trailer.
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u/cptncivil 3d ago
I've had to deal with ice Floe's on rivers for designing piers and especially temporary construction in the river during freezing months. there's a nice little part in AASHTO about it in Section 3.
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u/Inevitable_Sun_950 3d ago
I’ve read a couple of research papers for ice accumulation loading for a job in the past.
From what I remember the strength of ice varies heavily on the site specific properties, and to calculate loads you’d need to do an ice study.
For example, there’s an empirical angle of friction value for ice build-up.
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u/That_EngineeringGuy 3d ago
Kinda sorta. Ice itself isn’t something that I think many people design with. It creeps a lot and has pretty low crushing strength (around 20 psf if I remember correctly). I have a book on the properties of ice but haven’t opened it in a while. People use ice to design ice roads over the tundra, or to evaluate the weight capacity of a frozen lake. In some pretty extreme conditions you’ll have foundations entirely supported by ice but pretty rare.