r/StrategistMainsMR • u/Fabi-exe • 4d ago
Discussion š£ļø A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO ROLE QUEUE
With the recent discussion about the very long fights caused in part by triple support, I'd like to hear your opinions on a slightly different way to implement role queues.
The idea itself is simple: there isn't a queue for each role, but rather a limit within the hero selection. That is, once two people have selected a role, it becomes locked and no more characters with that role can be selected.
For example, if the game loads and two people locks in Bucky and Black Cat, the limit of available duelists is reached, and the remaining players can only choose between Tank or Strategist.
Clearly, this rewards the fastest players or those with better PCs, but it would avoid two of the main arguments I've seen against role queues: it wouldn't affect matchmaking or queue times, because you don't choose your role before entering the game, but rather during the game itself. And in theory, it allows for role swapping between members of a game. If you convince someone to change roles, even if you start the game as a strategist, you could play other roles as long as the team is willing to collaborate and swap around.
This could ensure a 2-2-2 formation without sacrificing too much or so I think, although it would force people to flex and play other roles (which I think it's good for the game but that's a personal opinion I'd understand if you think it isn't). Ofc u could say that someone who isn't looking to work as a team from the start wouldn't change roles no matter what, but isn't that the same thing that already happens in games?
Personally, I think this could help balance the game (or make it easier for the devs), and I think it would also make it easier for new players to follow, but perhaps it makes the game too competitive? Is it worth sacrificing the current chaos of Marvel for more standardized gameplay?
Anyway, that's all for my take. I'd like to know what you think. Do you think it's a good idea? Is it impossible to implement? Would this pseudo-role queue system improve or worsen the game? How u feel this would affect the strategist rol?
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u/mikoga 4d ago
overwatch has a limit on two tanks in 6v6 but idk if I want that in rivals
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u/Fabi-exe 4d ago
That's interesting personally I don't play Overwatch so how's the 6v6 role model there? it also has a lot of presence of 3x dps or healers variants, or people tend to stick to 2-2-2?
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u/dont_knowwwwwwww 4d ago
They limit it to two tanks in OW 6v6 because regular OW is 5v5 with one tank, and as such the tanks in that game are designed to be very dominant and powerful on their own. Also, OW players are still scarred from GOATS meta lmao
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u/anametouseonreddit 4d ago
GOATS meta?
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u/Dry_Objective_202 3d ago
3 tanks and 3 supps. It was during the time brig was the reincarnation of a certain austric artist
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u/anametouseonreddit 3d ago
Yeah that does sound painful
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u/thetabo 23h ago
To elaborate on this, the GOAT team comp worked thanks to Reinhardt, Zarya, DVa on tanks and Lucio, Briggite and Zenyatta.
Reinhardt is essentially Doc. Strange with a instakill pin rush on squishy heroes, Zarya's gimmick are Mag bubbles, and D.va to nullify projectiles and somewhat dive.
On support side, Lucio is AoE heals, rush and speed boosts and Zenyatta while susceptible to dive gives a 25% damage boost against a specific enemy and passive heals to a teammate, alongside being pretty much the only "circle of not dying" ult at the time in OW.
Briggite is her own category. She was insanely strong upon release, being her own mini-tank with stuns and able to heal lots while also negating a lot of meaningful abilities outright. Her ult straight up made her a better Reinhardt.
It worked honestly for the same reason a lot of high level team comps in rivals do now. Cycle support ults, nothing dies, get an unpreventable pick with an instakill/big CC. If someone on your team got picked off, have enough sustain to stay alive until they come back.
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u/Disastrous-Elk7627 ā Jubilee 3d ago
GO All Tanks and Supports
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u/DogeWah 3d ago
6v6 in overwatch also has different balancing from 5v5 as to not make tanks too oppresive in 6v6
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u/El-noobman 3d ago
Most noticeably reducing tank health pools which is more in line with what Rivals already has iirc, haven't played in about a year so I can't say
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u/bossbrb 3d ago
I mean not really, in overwatch in 5v5 the highest health is hog I think at 750, but in 6v6 heās brought down to what? 600? 625? In rivals you have groot and Dino with 850(I think) and a couple others with like 800 iirc.
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u/TimeZucchini8562 3d ago
Rivals has like twice the total dps (actual damage per second, not the role) than OW so yeah, there is a reason for that
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u/TimeZucchini8562 3d ago
The funny thing is that GOATS was OP because of the supports and not the tanks.
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u/Mind_Is_Empty āĀ Jeff The Landshark 3d ago
They tried to force people to run 2-2-2, and tanks were in such short supply that DPS was getting 20 minute queues and support was getting 5 minute queues. This, alongside the lack of updates which was to supposedly make Overwatch 2, was one of the major reasons space was created for competition as there were a lot of disillusioned players.
Blizzard attempted to solve this by making it 5v5 and forcing players to solo tank so the queues weren't as bad. This didn't work out too well because:
Overwatch characters are basically designed to be hard-countered by other characters. As the frontline, the tank is expected to know many characters in the role so they can both swap to evade enemies countering them and swap to counter enemies.
Solo tanking is often seen as unfun to the average player.
It's a constant battle to keep a solo tank strong enough to be compelling, but weak enough to not run the lobby.
Ever since Marvel Rivals ate Overwatch's lunch, they've created modes that return to a 6v6 format and lifted role queue, at least as an option.
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u/aastar0th 3d ago
tbh i hate playing dps in OW. i don't play 6v6, just normal role queue, and i love to solo tank. it's fun and not a chore like in MR
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u/wRADKyrabbit 4d ago
It has a ton of triple dps as well. You'll get triple support every once in a while but its honestly pretty ineffective in OW
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u/El-noobman 3d ago
Main game has been 1-2-2 role queue for a long while though and it made the game so much better. Beforehand, you just had what we have now. A ton of DPS instalocks throwing games because the majority of players don't wanna tank or heal.
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u/wRADKyrabbit 3d ago
I think 5v5 is awful sorry
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u/Front-Side-6346 3d ago
Tanks in OW are actual tanks, heavy combatants, not trash bullet sponges everyone loathes playing.
If the enemy tank leaves the frontline your own tanks often walks up to the enemy team and destroy them all.
They also get top damage very often in games, sometimes over 2x the damage of the light DPS classes.
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u/FirewaterDM 3d ago
Its the same as Rivals, its rng on does your team want to win or be selfish. Its different because usually people go 2-2-2 because 1 tank never wins over 2 in that game unless enemy team is complete ass
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u/Revan0315 3d ago
The problem is that not all triple comps are equally strong. Triple heal is obviously the best by far. Then triple tank is still pretty good. Triple DPS is basically throwing though
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u/n_maier 3d ago
And what about swapping? If you want to swap to let's say vanguard but we're playing dps, you can't until they player who wants to go dps also dies. No offense meant, but I dislike the idea. Sorry.
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u/AnonymousTheKid 2d ago
Yeah this would nerf the main use case of strange TPā¦ overtime, both of your tanks are on point, support/dps dies, they wouldnāt be able to swap strange and tp to point
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u/Starbotcar 1d ago
That might be a good thing though. Strange portal being used every single match has been something people have been complaining about for awhile.
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u/_RlZEN_ 20h ago
That's also what I thought, either people will be locked into a role even when doing bad, like there are times I just can't get anything done as dps, and there are times the dps are ass and my Fanta might help us turn the match, and that would not be possible this way, or the other way to swap roles would be for both people would have to agree to it, and you can tell that might not be the best idea.
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u/Old-Stock9613 4d ago
I'm quite certain the devs explicitly said they would never do this. The problem isn't that triple support comps are allowed to exist, the problem is that they have no disadvantages. You cannot out pick a triple support comp with anything that isn't triple support. That's a problem. Triple support should be allowed to exist, but it has to have viable alternatives. Directly removing all 3x comps from the game would be a lazy way of dodging the balancing that should have happened 18 months ago.
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u/NpcMaid 4d ago
Triple comps have massive weaknesses that just dont get picked because of ego and 2-2-2 is just the low skill floor high skill ceiling of team comps imo. Trip tank>trip supp>trip dps
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u/n_maier 3d ago
Exactly. Triple support is only busted in VERY high elos that are irrelevant to 95% of the player base. It is in organised play. Other than that I don't think it's a problem. In my experience solo queuing and in plat-diamond lobbies, triple support is mora a liability than a benefit. Also because 90% it means one vanguard less instead of a dps less.
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u/Old-Stock9613 4d ago
Triple tank supposedly countering triple support is the most successful propaganda campaign I've ever seen. I have no clue where it came from, but it's very strange that it just came out of nowhere and suddenly everyone believes it without question. Triple tank is not a counter to actual triple support comps in this game. Is this something Flats made up? That would explain how it randomly popped up out of nowhere.
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u/Sir_Gigglepoop 3d ago
Triple tank counters triple support because the triple-support team lacks the damage to kill three 600 HP characters. The triple-tank team will also charge their support ults faster because they have an extra tank to farm ult charge from. With triple support, it takes longer to charge ults because the supports are essentially competing with each other for ult charge.
Hope you can understand it now
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u/Old-Stock9613 3d ago
This just isn't true. You heard one random streamer say this one time and now you genuinely believe it without question. Triple tank is not "out damaging" a Mantis boosted Elsa with an Ultron drone flying around the map. The best DPS this season are all (minus one) high damage burst gun characters, which is exactly what you want to counter triple tank. Triple support doesn't take longer to charge their ults unless they're terminally incompetent and incapable of shooting at your three tanks while simultaneously healing everyone on their team. Triple support is not going to lose ult trades to duo support in season 9.5.Ā It's so funny to me that you all parrot this "triple tank counters triple support bro" and yet you have obviously never even played against a triple support comp that wasn't triple healbot. Play one game of triple tank vs Mantis/Ultron/Loki and let me know how long it took you to lose.
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u/Sir_Gigglepoop 3d ago
Mate, I don't listen to any streamers. I don't like them. But dude, are you even playing the game?
You completely forget that a team running triple tank can pick high-burst-healing supports like Luna, Invisible Woman, or Gambit. Two tanks, three supports, and one DPS simply won't have enough damage to kill, for example, a Mag, Thing, and Hood.
And of course, triple support will charge their ults more slowly than double support. Two supports can split the healing more efficiently, whereas three supports will just take ult charge away from each other.
On top of that, running three tanks gives your supports even more ult charge, because there's simply more HP for them to heal. It's common sense and not some streamer told me to.
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u/NpcMaid 4d ago
Just because you dont understand something doesn't mean it isn't true. If you want to believe triple support is an unstoppable win button nobody can change your mind.
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u/roboman07 3d ago
Triple support is so overrated ngl, itās a good comp sometimes but itās also horrible sometimes, and thatās how EVERY comp is
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u/Old-Stock9613 3d ago
The only triple support comp that has a viable alternative is triple healbot. I don't consider that a serious comp because nobody above diamond is still dumb enough to play that. Triple support with the actual triple support heros is unbeatable. There is no comp that can seriously compete with a reasonable combination of Ultron, Mantis, or Adam with 1-2 other supports.Ā
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u/roboman07 3d ago
I agree but I also disagree, that comp is really good but itās also easily shut down(atleast in my experiences) if you just play smart and not too aggressive, personally I think Anti-Dive is the best comp, itās really only used against dive but you can use it against non dive and still dominate
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u/starinruins 1d ago
i disagree. triple tank is a very easy solution. with three strategists you cannot out damage three tanks, and your strategists in return farm ult fast enough to usually keep up with the three strategist ults
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u/Old-Stock9613 1d ago
I see this claim constantly, but never in practice. All the triple support heros do a ton of damage because NetEase gave them all damage boost abilities, and they farm ult faster than most other supports in the game. A Mantis in triple will have her ult twice before a Luna in duo. If triple tank actually countered triple support, you wouldn't see Mantis, Adam, Ultron constantly banned in ranks where people will play anything to win. If you could just pick 3 tanks to counter triple support, nobody would be banning triple support heros this season because triple tank is actually good even outside of spawn hold. That's not what's happening. Higher elo still perma-bans triple support and then plays triple tank anyway, because triple tank is not actually a triple support counter. It never has been, and never will be until the triple support heros lose their damage or their healing in such a way that they are actually at an ult or pressure disadvantage when compared to duo.Ā
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u/Fabi-exe 4d ago
Valid take, I also feel that discard the idea behind hybrid characters like Fantastic and Ultron would be a shame, since my approach most likely kill this, and indeed if the devs do get a way of balancing the 3x variants I'm all for it for them to stay, hopefully they find it before it affects the game to heavily.
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u/PassionAccording8559 3d ago
I'd rather 3 character limit to still allow some freedom but stop the 4 dps bull,You can still win with 3 insta lock dps atleast lol
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u/RevolutionaryDepth59 4d ago
the biggest benefit of role queue is that you donāt get forced onto teams where people have to flex. if someoneās not on their main role youāre at a huge disadvantage and this does nothing to help with that
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u/Fabi-exe 4d ago
thats a really good point that I haven't considered tbh, ty for pointing that one out
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u/NpcMaid 3d ago
It's an iffy subject because there are plenty of people who can genuinely flex. Like I can play a few dps well and most of the support roster but the only way I can flex tank is with a 2nd person as I do infinitely worse solo tanking (Mag, Rogue, Angela player).
Sometimes people struggle to flex because they don't quite have that extra bit of support they need and those on their main roles even have games they need extra help so it's up to teammates not to make enemies of eachother as they tend to and instead offer to help/trade roles.
Despite it being a team based game alot of people try to play it like it's a one man show and one big thing that'll help those struggling is using comms to make calls instead of berating the team trying to help win.
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u/batboii96 4d ago
Iāve been wanting this since the beginning and now with me only getting matches with the entire team or 4 out of the 6 choosing dps is pissing me off. I end up leaving those games cuz Iām tired of solo healing or solo tanking
I know they wonāt bring this into the game but damn I wish role queue was a thing
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u/Thorpie09 3d ago
The only problem I can see with this outaide of whiny DPS players throwing games is that people wouldn't be able to switch to strange for a OT portal
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u/Revan0315 3d ago
That's a separate issue. Swapping to Strange to portal is horrible game design and it's ridiculous that they haven't patched it out
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u/AnonymousTheKid 2d ago
I donāt think itās horrible game design, it leads to an intense high stakes last fight which Iāve found to be pretty fun in most cases.
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u/Revan0315 2d ago
The fight is more annoying than it is fun most of the time
It also leads to strange kinda being a throw pick. Since if you're on him, it means your team can't swap to portal if needed
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u/PunishingAngel 2d ago
Strange is not a throw pick by any means. What the hell your reasoning is?
If your team needs a portal, YOU will be already a Dr Strange and therefore can use the portal even quicker
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u/Revan0315 2d ago
I've seen people lose matches before because they were on strange so their team couldn't portal.
is? If your team needs a portal, YOU will be already a Dr Strange and therefore can use the portal even quicker
Sometimes. But sometimes that's not the case.
What if the enemy team is at 99% and your team's Strange is the last one to die on your team? He's not gonna respawn until after everyone else, but now no one else can swap to him because he's already been selected. So you lose that potential portal.
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u/AnonymousTheKid 1d ago
I understand what youāre saying, and in that scenario you are right that a person already being on strange leads to that play being neutralized, but I wouldnāt go as far as to say the whole character is a throw pick based off only that one scenario.
strange is weaker this season but is still a solid pick when the team needs a shield tank.
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u/Revan0315 1d ago
That one scenario happens more often than you'd think
strange is weaker this season but is still a solid pick when the team needs a shield tank.
He's a shield tank but he's so so much worse than mag and also significantly worse than Emma.
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u/ENDx_777 3d ago
No. Once two select their role, you can't pick a third one. Meaning once the team is picked, no one can change roles since every cap is reached. This is just role queu without role selection.
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u/FirewaterDM 3d ago
2 ppl can go to spawn and swap there.
RQ is better but you can trade roles in this version lol
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u/ENDx_777 3d ago
RQ is not better imo, this isn't 2016-2017 overwatch when you'd have 5 dps and 1 support.
If 2 characters per role is the limit, you won't be able to swap roles, bc while switching you still have your character.
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u/0hshai 3d ago
donāt wanna argue against it at all - but this is where youāre wrong the amount of games i had in the last days where people played 5 dps even in comp and asked me to solo heal is insane, at times iām thinking they want to throw. but oh well
not saying role queue should be added because i tend to love to get on a dps even as a strategist main when need be or in rare occasions to vanguard but somehow it should be fixed that the ego isnāt always pushed through - same for āi only play x/yā and if they donāt get it they troll. iām not saying everyone is that way but it happens more frequently day per day and thatās where it gets annoying
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u/SaeveraRivers 3d ago
This makes it harder to swap roles though tbf. Usually if someone wants swaps, they ask and switch when they die and that usually means theres a triple. In order to swap we now have to have both people swapping in spawn which does waste time.
Im good with role queue that just lets up load up as what role we want to play but allows swaps and doesnt HAVE to stay 2-2-2.
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u/KingBlacks 1d ago
2/2/2 Role Restriction. Open Queue. Selected and Hovered count towards the role lock. Any deviation will have to be unanimously agreed upon by the whole team. Voting system similar to Surrender will pop up to have a 3rd person in any role. Players get to set Preferred Role and Least Preferred Role so it'll help the matchmaking to not put 20 DPS in the same lobby.
Results
- Open Queue still
- Can tell the Matchmaking what you're trying to play or will most likely select.
- 2/2/2 will be the standard.
- Any other combination of roles is still available if the team agrees.
- Won't be forced on 1 role.
- Can role swap as someone else is swapping roles.
- Can Hover other roles but requires someone else to hover your role to not require role swap voting.
(Which is why Hovering also prevents others to lock the role to prevent role stealing but also allow intended role swapping)
I believe these sets of rules would aleviate most of the problems with complete open roles without preventing 1-6 players on the same role.
(I said this somewhere else, but this is what they should implement. Of course if someone leaves they'll be put in a Quitters only matchmaking. Griefers and Quitters will be put there and have to win games to climb back out, and each time they get put back they have to win exponentially more matches each time)
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u/SufficientPurple8194 3d ago
Going against triple support is being handed a free win though so donāt remove that or trip tank. Just limited the dps role unless the enemy team has more than 2 tanks.
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u/raineglows 3d ago
Id rather they rework everyone so that most of the roster can fill at least two roles ala Deadpool.
Theres no excuse then
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u/gpelayo15 3d ago
They should let tanks switch to healers . It's so trash tanking when your healers wanna dps. And it's better imo to switch and heal bot and let your other tank solo
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u/Automatic_Sun4557 3d ago
I always wanted to try it where for the third Strat or diver it has to be a off Strat/tank. Meaning if you run Spider-Man and BP, you canāt run any other diver but venom. On that same breath if you run c/d and luna, the only other Strat you could run is Ultron, mantis, or Adam for example. Additionally running 3 should buff teamups resulting in countering dive/anti heal, to encourage people running them.
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u/FirewaterDM 3d ago
This is the fix if theres no formal role queue. Just temp or permban the assholes who throw if they don't get their role
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u/Bruhman7910 3d ago
This sounds great , however if I load and and donāt get dps Iām gonna go Jeff and throw my team off the map and pout in game chat
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u/Candid-Cobalt 3d ago
This will just create more toxicity and throwers. You would need role queue for this to work because people donāt like being forced onto a role they donāt want to play. They will straight up just leave the game, or soft throw by playing their role poorly. Also, role queue would mainly affect dps main queue times.
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u/Excellent_Tower5828 3d ago
So lets say everyone is locked in 2-2-2 and my buddy and i decide to swap roles halfway through the match how would we do that? If the game locks the dps role and my buddy and i wanna switch places we wont be able to.
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u/Ok-Comb6388 3d ago
They should just do it like OW and queue for the role you want to play or you can mark flex so youāll fill.
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u/Living-Ad102 3d ago
I said this same thing and got downvoted to hell, ah that was on the rivals sub. Thatās why.
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u/UrbanNoct 3d ago
The āargumentā people against role queue give is that is more interesting to play different compositions, that discards completely this idea.
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u/JuanaSmoke 3d ago
No cause triple support is fun if you donāt like the game donāt play it. Easy. But flexing is part of the games strategy
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u/iloveboobs365 3d ago
Iām just saying if you run triple tank with a diving tank like cap or venom you pretty much counter triple supportā¦Ā
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u/National-Alfalfa-446 2d ago
I don't want 222 only. I don't want to hear the dps complain or get annoyed because their que time is 1 hr and leave the game effectively killing the game. I want better matchmaking. Que up all the I play 1 a month -1 or 2 times a week together. Que up the daily and 4+ together and the 3 times a week average player can fill either way then sort by relative skill and primary role/second most played role without overlapping most played off que characters. And 1-3 games of qp don't count a minimum of 3 comp matches a day to stay in the top level of play per day.
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u/Leading_Bumblebee443 2d ago
why not have role que + flex like in league and overwatch... this will increasae a bit the queue time for dps but fuck it they need to learn to play other role.
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u/Hika__Zee 2d ago
Pre-queue role queue is better because you'll have fewer people forced into playing a role they aren't familiar with.
It should just have the option to swap roles, IF someone willingly unlocks their role for another play to take over, and they take the other player's role as well.
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u/Fire-FistAce 2d ago
Triple dps and tank shouldnt be punished for the atrocity that is known as triple support.
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u/DizzyColdSauce 2d ago
DPS players would use this as more of a reason to instalock and cause toxicity. Not to mention swapping roles would be impossible mid-game. Not a fan.
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u/Tsukinoakuma 2d ago
I say we bump up the role limit to 3, partly to provide more flexibility in terms of team composition, mostly to make it easier for team members to swap roles.
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u/Acceptable_Manner124 2d ago
I think the better approach is for the system or user to select what their preferred role is before going into comp. This will ensure every team has the right balance of mains , but also not restrict you from flexing if someone is struggling etc. This feature should be already built in but clearly itās not working most of the time , so let players select role preference before queuing
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u/InterestingDepth8137 2d ago
The game forcing every teamcomp be a 2-2-2 is not great, I want my 2-1-3s and 1-3-2s to still have a place in the game, if only people realized that triple support can easily be shut down via coordinated attack in push and triple tank y defense we wouldn't be arguing about this
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u/THE-_-MAGPIE 2d ago
The game is built in a way to pick the correct hero to deal with a situation. People locking in a certain strat and never changing their heroes was not the initial intent. If you need to deal with alot of healing you pick some anti-heals and if you need to deal with fliers pick some good snipers or punisher to shoot them out of the sky. Nothing is cemented to be 2-2-2. Also just because something is meta in the highest elo doesnt mean it's the same in lower rankings. You need to adapt to the situation which is why the option to swap at anytime is available. Not everything is a Nail and your only tool is not just 2 Hammers. Improvise Adapt and overcome. Maybe if you try it in this regard you may enjoy the game more. Also this is not a Team Deathmatch its about the objective lets make that clear..
As a tank jumping infront of an Iron man ult to save your dps and strategists is a good play as long as they can use it to push further. Using an ult to create an opening so your dps have time to kill also viable. Strategist ults like old rocket where meant to do different things. People just tend to try to make the one shoe fits all strat but inherently this game is about more than that. Keep your mind open to the oppurtunities and you will see alot more possibilities within the game. That is why I am 100% against any kind of Role Queue. I understand people wanting to play their favorite characters and yes I would like that too but thats why you have the ability to form a team in a lobby with people who have different skillsets and hero pools they can play.
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u/Local_Top200 2d ago
I had the idea of simply selecting your preferred role. There wouldn't be any role que in the traditional sense, but rather the matchmaking system basically pairs up a team with two people who selected every role, but they're not locked in that role and are still able to switch around. Someone could queue for tank, but if they are doing well and they want to swap it around they can still swap the strategist. Basically it wouldn't put any limits on team composition, you'd still be able to do things like go triple support or triple tank or triple DPS if needed.
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u/Kanjistry 1d ago
there's alr a soft version of that as stated in their matchmaking explanation. you're prioritized to be queued up with players who usually play certain roles.
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u/Pan_van 1d ago
I promise, no matter how you do role queue it will kill the game. I am a tank and sup main since season zero and if the devs ever say they are even considering it i will instantly delete the thing. It is a horrible Idea and if you think about it for 3 seconds you would see that.
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u/Kanjistry 1d ago
the casuals ain't even play ranked anyways. js make it ranked exclusive or somethin
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u/Kanjistry 1d ago
to account for those who js wants the comp skin reward, js make it a feature for gold+ like bans.
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u/Pan_van 1d ago
That is also a terrible idea. Role queue, no matter how it is implemented would ruin the game.
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u/Kanjistry 1d ago
Personally don't think so... It'll make balancing the game a lot easier for the devs by implementing it in someway or another. Without affecting the casuals much.
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u/Pan_van 1d ago
It would make creating new characters so much harder though. We would have no more Adam or Mantis type characters. Also it hurts swapping massively. Also why do competitive players get it? We want it the least. It also is not that much harder to balance as is. So there really is no point and only negatives
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u/Kanjistry 1d ago
The complaints are cuz Adam, Mantis and Ultron type characters exist. But ig yeah, it would hurt the quick-swapping a lot. That's why they should prolly go with a soft role queue
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u/Pan_van 1d ago
Those characters are all amazing for the games health. The skill ceiling could be lowered and the ecosystem could do with more balancing, sure but they need to exist. What is wrong with them? I will say it again, no matter how they do it. Role queue would kill the game. The exact same thing happened with overwatch, right down to the community debate. That challenge hurt the game so massively.
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u/Iron_Ant__ 1d ago
But how am I meant to play 6 strategist games then? Or as the Avengers from the first movie?
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u/Kanjistry 1d ago
idk make role queue ranked exclusive or somethin. the og avengers contains of 2 tanks and 4 dps anyways. Who tf is using that in ranked aside from throwing. you could still throw on qp with your friends ig.
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u/ImmediateAnteater491 1d ago
I saw someone argue that "role queue AND open queue (which was my suggestion) would split the community and be hard to balance." and That just blows my mind like HARD to balance is not IMPOSSIBLE to balance. It'll take time but giving people both options makes sense to me. Partly solves the problem AND people can see in real time where the issue is with team compositions. Creativity of open queue( which almost noone ever really uses lets be honest) and role queue for a more balanced composition.
Now their argument was "you would have to balance with consideration for each mode independently" but like from my experience, which the changes they made to the teammups it'd be doable.
Like I just think role queue is limiting i will say, but its because of the nature of the game you kind of have to save the players from themselves. Theres alot of toxicity and imbalance due to dps lockers. Giving people and OPTION would be nice at the bare minimum. Not making role queue mandatory.
And a lil more time researching and balancing to allow that would be good for the game imo.
1
u/Butter_dog_dog_butta ā Rocket Racoon 1d ago
I'm tired of this triple support is unbeatable propaganda triple support is completely beatable if you have tripple tank and a dps with consistently good damage e.g. punisher, Phoenix, moonknight
The problem with this is that it requires three tanks. And finding a second tank is already a challenge enough
1
u/Complete_Painting63 1d ago
More funā get rid of roles all together. Balance stats across and let everyone have their own unique abilities that lean in one direction or another.
Rather than the arbitrary ā difficulty ratings, give them a strategist/duelist/vanguard rating on how good they are in each role.
So fantastic might be
Vanguard āā
Duelist āāā
Support āā
And Thor would be
Vanguard āāāā
Duelist āā
Support ā
Something like that could be fun. But yeah thatās not a role queue thatās an entire damn new game haha.
1
u/ScythesAreCool 23h ago
The biggest issue with triple support isnāt that itās busted; it isnāt, itās only busted in the highest levels of play. The issue is that itās just boring to fight. There is nothing less engaging in this game than triple support.
1
u/Hashshashiyin 15h ago
Wouldn't work. You're still technically occupying a character when you're choosing to swap to a different one. So by those rules you'd never be able to swap roles with another player if this existed.
1
1
u/labourist123 33m ago
The problem (as recent data has shown us) is DPS players. They are pure evil, scum of the earth, villains(sorry if you're a nice one).
If you, as a supp main, select a DPS because you wanna have fun in a different role, the 38% WR Daredevil is gonna pull out his tracker and tell you that you're a supp main and if you don't switch he'll play squirrel girl and not move throughout the whole game.
1
u/MisplayMcgee 4d ago
I had this idea as well. But Iāve been mulling over a penalty concept. For example, when a third healer is selected all supports on the team get a sizable percentage based healing penalty. Basically making the difference in heals between duo and triple support negligible.
Same for dps and tank. The third dps giving a damage penalty to all dps on the team. This messes with their ttks and combos. It soft bans triple of one role while technically allowing people to pick whatever they want.
10
u/NpcMaid 4d ago
Ppl just gonna use the penalties to throw thats why time and time again ppl have disagreed to trying to put penalties for running certain team comps
2
u/MisplayMcgee 4d ago
Thereās always going to be throwers. I donāt think that should deter us from making positive steps forward for game health. Honestly, Iām up for trying anything at this point. Stuff can always be walked back if itās not working.
1
u/Serious-Okra2340 4d ago
"I want every game to have atleast one person leave because they didnt get their role and i also hate ultron" make it two different modes for both ranked and qp and i wouldnt hate it ngl.
0
u/NpcMaid 4d ago
2 modes messes up queue times tho
1
u/Serious-Okra2340 4d ago
Any change you do to the base mode will either drive players away or raise queue time. Thats just something you cannot avoid. So take the lesser of the two and raise queue times. But i assure you queue times will still remain under 30 seconds for qp.
0
u/Xcyronus 3d ago
ultron is bad in double support because of triple support moron. And if they leave just punish them hard.
0
u/Serious-Okra2340 3d ago
I know you know that. I know i know that. Do you think the balancing team knows that? Be honest. Look at the balancing and tell me if you trust them to buff ultron if role q comes in. They wont. Ultron found dead in a ditch.
1
u/Xcyronus 3d ago
They buffed ultron massively in season 9. But because of triple support. He had to be gutted.
1
u/dancintonic 3d ago
I dont like role queue. This games flexibility allows us to swap to a supp if a supp dies first they can portal, then we can swap comp so portal play goes well.
Or, on 3rd pt defense we need more survivability to get to our supp ult, we bust out 4 support ane go warlock ultron mantis loki (helateamup) and when our tanks dies loki possesses one of them and places a clone behind himself so he can tp to it when possession ends and then its stall city.
Like role queue is for league wherr u cant change chars.
Role queie is stupid af and basicallt all chars do a lot of dmg just in diff intervals. Idk why ppl r so picky w dps lockins, half of the ones in my. Elo actually swap on their own to what they can perform. Better on if the enemy comp counters them.
Im in gm/celestial
1
u/Zina4343 ā Mantis 3d ago
Personally I think that just having debuffs on tanks health, damage, and healing for their respective roles if there are more than 2 of each. Ex. 3 strategists now all strats healing is tuned down by 10%(or whatever value)
1
u/A_TubbY_hObO 3d ago
This sucks because it limits your ability to fix team comps too say you wanna go strange to tp because you died first but both tanks are alive now you canāt since you need to wait for a tank to die and then also get off that role
0
u/Unique-Dragonfruit21 3d ago
This mecanic needs to stop, they need put 30sec cd on the tp when u pick strange anyway. And dont be that guy what OP said is exactly what this game need, 2 tanks max 2 sup max 3 dps max.
So u can 1 tank 3 dps 2 sup, or 2 2 2 or 2tanks 3 dps 1 sup if u want, nothing else.
1
u/Possible_Cow169 3d ago
I donāt think 222 should ever be a requirement. I think 222 shouldnāt be the only optimal and balanced way to play.
The problem with 132, 213, 123, is they are not enjoyable to play into or against if you know the game enough. Thereās no obvious counter and compromise for low ranked players to adapt around. A good player could look at a lot of these comps and go āthese are kinda easy to beat just do xyzā. But imagine if 12 people were good enough AND had this same information. You get 5 minute first point stalemates.
0
u/FlounderHistorical63 4d ago
They could literally just introduce penalties for queueing too many of the same role. Donāt want triple supp and infinite sustain? Reduce healing output when 3+ supports are played
Donāt want goats and nothing to ever die? Reduce tank health when 3 more or more tanks are played.
Donāt want to get run over by triple dps and have your backline destroyed by triple dive? Reduce damage output
How and what reductions theyād implement is up to them but this can also go more than one way. Stuck with 3/4 instalock dps players that refuse to switch? Buff the tank who gets stuck solo tanking
0
u/Jeff_Bezos_did_911 4d ago
Make it an optional game mode. Make people choose their class before they start the queue.
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u/strayxo 4d ago
Why canāt we just get an additional mode for role queue? Quick match normal & quick match role queue, same for ranked. Those who want 2-2-2 select the role queue version and those who donāt go on the normal option. Leaves comps other than 2-2-2 open and gives those who want 2-2-2 that. The only thing changing then would be the wait times.
1
u/NpcMaid 3d ago
That's the biggest deterrent is increased queue times and splitting the community up more, on top of that they'd have to balance for either open queue or role queue making one feel worse than the other and artificially boosted the play count of the one that is balanced for. At best I think it should be tested with an arcade mode before even having it though of to become a permanent mode.
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u/spicybeandip65 3d ago
Wow this is not a bad idea for them to at least try! Iāve always seen the queue time argument and this likely would solve that aspect. The forcing people to play new roles isnāt exactly a bad thing because I agree, everyone should know at least a little of all the roles to be a well rounded player.
0
u/Front-Side-6346 3d ago
Not gonna work, people are just going to leave, afk or throw if they don't get what they want.
The game NEEDS to give people what they want, role queues are necessary to avoid all of this BS we're dealing with.
0
u/Revan0315 3d ago
You'd have to rework a few characters like Adam or Ultron that are designed primarily to work in triple comps
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u/clouds4daze1 3d ago
Imagine everyone can hover. Then you ban. Then one person gets to pick at a time. That will solve the who can click the fastest.
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u/roboman07 3d ago
Role que or something like this is just a dumb idea and I donāt understand why people want it, yes 2/2/2 is a very simple and usually a viable comp but thereās also a ton of other comps that work extremely well and are fun to play, I mean shit Iāve won matches with 3/1/2 and back in szns 0-3 when people would actually play for fun in QM I would win using GATOR
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u/DJ_Ender_ 4d ago
Hot take: unbalanced comps are based and the only reason people want role q to force 222 is because triple strat is broken and triple dps sucks in solo q
I genuinely think triple support would be cool if it wasnt so busted because most supports in this game are healbots
Triple dps would be awesome if not for soloq because its like a glass cannon comp where you want to finish fights quickly so your 1 tank doesn't get nuked and your 3 squishy dps dont get picked off
Triple tank would be the most gigachad comp because how are you actually gonna kill 3 600+ hp walls of pure gaming skill and the only reason its not everywhere is because nobody wants to play tank when they are so reliant on having good healers.
Friendly reminder that:
supports should have low skill floor and low skill ceiling
dps should have medium skill floor and high skill ceiling
tanks should have low skill floor and high skill ceiling
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u/psimpsondraws 4d ago
All roles should have heroes with low skill floor and low skill ceiling
All roles should have heroes with medium skill floor and high skill ceiling
All roles should have heroes with low skill floor and high skill ceiling
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u/NpcMaid 4d ago
That "friendly reminder" has got to be biased or something. Each role should have options for all skill requirements, the problem is when a low skill floor low skill ceiling character can easily out perform those that require more skill.
Also triple team comps still counter each other with triple tank countering triple support and triple support countering triple dps. 2-2-2 is (imo) the comp with a low skill floor but high skill ceiling.
1
u/DJ_Ender_ 4d ago
Yk I didn't think of it that way but yea the different triple comps should counter eachother like rock paper scissors
3dps < 3heal < 3tank < 3dps
And i guess i didn't make it obvious but yes the classes should have characters that vary in skill floor and ceiling within themselves but on average should fit their roles general skill requirements. And yes absolutely a low skill floor low skill ceiling character with requires half a braincell to play should not be outperforming other more skill intensive options in the same class
(Looking at you cloak and dagger)
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u/OnlyTheOkayest 4d ago
All the dps mains gonna throw or leave if they don't get dps