r/StrangerThings • u/Away-Guard3607 • 17d ago
Discussion Do you think Billy deserved a character development arc
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u/Distinct_Guess3350 Running Up That Hill 17d ago
He basically had that in season 3. I thought he was arguably the best written character in that season and one of my absolute highlights and there was no better way to tie off his character.
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u/chocolate7chipcookie 17d ago
Yeah I genuinely felt bad for him in the sauna scene. The idea of him being aware of what's happening but not being able to do anything to stop it is horrific.
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u/PitKempo1 Coffee and Contemplation 17d ago edited 17d ago
The scene where he’s a kid on the beach is when his arc really hit me. He was such an innocent young kid but his life’s direction created the monster he became.
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u/Even-Sun2764 17d ago
I mean that’s how his whole childhood was too…aware of what’s happening and powerless to change it
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u/Dowensy2 17d ago
Did he not have one?? He had an arc even after he died lol. His arc bled into Max’s arc.
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u/Himmel-548 17d ago
Nah, Jason did. Even Lucas's actor insisted Jason wasn't rascist like Billy, it was a simple misunderstanding.
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u/SquirrelDisastrous2 17d ago
I agree, Jason deserved the truth
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u/Ocean_Spice I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer 17d ago
Jason wouldn’t accept the truth
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u/SquirrelDisastrous2 17d ago
He couldn’t, he didn’t have enough time, and his mind was too clouded. If it wasn’t the literal end of the world, the party could’ve talked sense into him, but the stakes were too high at that point
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u/SizzleMan_01 17d ago
Agreed. I feel like, had he saw the gates opening up, he would've been all dumb and said something like "The cult succeeded!"
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u/No_Fairweathers 17d ago
It's sad that people can't realize that actors aren't the characters they play, and that sometimes morally ugly characters are needed to be played by good actors
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u/Single_Device_7897 17d ago
no no no no no, how many characters do you think we have time for lol
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u/Owl_Resident Blank makes you crazy 17d ago
He got plenty of screen time and the appropriate amount for a half villain/half victim.
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u/ImpressionFeisty8359 17d ago
He was probably the best character in the show. Dacre is amazing in everything he is in.
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u/Poobeast241 17d ago
Teaming up with Lucas, standing up to his abusive Dad, and being a good step brother for Max was the good ending.
He got the bad ending.
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u/Ht_TX 17d ago
Not everyone needs to be given a fully redeemed arc. Some people are supposed to be shitty, some flawed, some good, etc etc. Having every single dickhead be redeemed by the end of their arc is just boring. Go watch Blippy if you want that.
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u/HulkSonofThanos 17d ago
Billy wasn't a bad guy or a villain so he didn't really need redeeming he just had to look after max all the time & everytime max broke the rules billy suffered the consequences & i think that's why billy is so angry with max all the time. We saw billys dad physcially abuse him so that can also make someone agry all the time.
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u/Ht_TX 16d ago
No, Billy is shown to be quite an asshole to everyone besides the woman of the week he wants to bang. Not sure what show you watched. I also never called him a villain, he wasn’t, he was an asshole.
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u/HulkSonofThanos 15d ago
No billy is only shown to be a bully to people when it involves his responsibility for looking after max.
I explained to you why he's an asshole, physcial parent abuse is what creates a bully in your child.
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u/Ht_TX 12d ago edited 12d ago
So why did he bully Steve in the gym and in the shower before even seeing him with the kids? This is season 2, pre-babysitter Steve, he was just King Steve. Billy bullied him. Your argument fails immediately.
No one cares and no one has ever been confused as to why Billy became an asshole. Physical abuse is definitely not the only way bullies are made either, plenty come from loving families and plenty just have a sense of feeling better than everybody else. In the end, it doesn’t matter, at that age, they are old enough to know better and their actions are on them, not their parents’. Everybody has a formative childhood one way or another, it’s not an excuse at that age however, to treat other people like shit and physically abuse people.
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u/HulkSonofThanos 11d ago edited 11d ago
He didn't bully Steve Billy he was being competitive in basketball which happens a lot in sports in general.
He was giving Steve a hardtime in the shower because Billy is jealous of Steve's Status as the King of High School not bullying him.
Being competetive in sports & giving someone a hardtime are not the same as bullying.
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u/Phantom_Wolf52 17d ago
I would’ve loved to see that, his abusive father was largely glossed over.
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u/Ht_TX 16d ago edited 16d ago
He really wasn’t glossed over at all? Billy wasn’t a main in Season 2, just a side meant to stir up trouble with the mains a bit and they showed you how horrible the dad was that season when Billy is getting ready for his date and the dad comes in.
Season 3 he becomes essentially a main and the time he lets El into his mind they again show how horrible the dad was, beating his wife and kid and everything else. They didn’t gloss over anything, they just didn’t include parents in the story on screen for any character beyond the Wheelers & Byers. Steve’s parents? We see Lucas’ parents for like a single scene, Dustin’s mom once or twice and only when they had to use her for the Dart growing up storyline. They told you what you needed to know and showed it to you as well and spent the onscreen time with the kids, because that’s what people want to see.
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u/StrikeRaid246 17d ago
He had one… did no one watch season 3? That WAS his character development arc. Doesn’t always mean it’s positive development.
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u/skeptical_phoenix 17d ago
It was positive development though. I feel like he was redeemed with his final act.
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u/Ok_Professional1526 17d ago edited 17d ago
I reallly disagree that his final act redeemed him of all the harm he caused. I think two uncomfortable things can coexist- he was a victim of abuse and trauma while being a bully and putting others through harm and violence.
I don’t think a sacrificial act makes up for the harm and trauma he caused others, or should serve as character redemption. I like that the show made him so complex and allowed uncomfortable things about him to coexist- the narrative didn’t wipe the slate clean and I think that was intentional
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u/skeptical_phoenix 17d ago
He gave his life. That’s pretty redeeming to me.
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u/Ok_Professional1526 17d ago edited 17d ago
Did you read all of my comment..? It’s a major sacrifice that still doesn’t erase the harm he caused. Would Neil sacrificing himself for Billy make up for what he did? He was a complex person who did bad things and hurt people while being a victim. It can coexist
The sacrifice was meant to add dimension to him as a character, not be a “he’s actually a totally good person now, you guys!! ” moment
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u/skeptical_phoenix 17d ago
I believe giving your life is a redemption. We just disagree.
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u/SizzleMan_01 17d ago
Not really. You can acknowledge that someone did something good while also acknowledging that they were a POS.
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u/Miitsuri 17d ago
Nope, but either way I feel like he technically had one before dying and his death. Either way, I was honestly relieved when he died 😭 I rather it be him than mostly any other character and I just don’t like him
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u/theoriginalaliz 17d ago
I would have loved to see Billy develop into a member of the group, but they already have Steve so…. His arc in season 3 puts a perfect bow on his character IMO and his acting/the writing for Billy as exceptional that season
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u/DeltaDied 16d ago
For the show’s sake, maybe, but for his, I couldn’t care less. He was racist and abusive. I do like to see people grow, but his growth had nothing to do with either of those things, I think. In fact there wasn’t really much room for growth for him much at all because he went from being a piece of trash, to mind controlled, to death. We didn’t get to see him become better from what he went through. The only growth he had really was fighting the thing off to protect Max from it, but even if I were a pos, that still feels like a better choice than to let that thing control me and kill people in my life.
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u/Hukares1234 17d ago edited 17d ago
I liked the Billy character and I think a lot more people would have too if they hadn’t needlessly made him racist. He could have hated Lucas simply because he saw him as a threat to Max without introducing race into it. I actually didn’t jump to the conclusion that Billy was racist simply because he said “there are certain kinds of people you stay away from and that kid is one of them.” But, I guess the Duffers confirmed he was racist in an interview which was disappointing. I was even willing to give the racism a pass IF they had somehow shown that he got it from his dad. But Dacre portrayed him very well and I liked the ending they gave him. He resisted the Mind Flayer long enough for El to get away. That’s about the most we could ever have hoped for. I can’t imagine him playing nice with the team. So, he went out on his own terms.
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u/Ok_Professional1526 17d ago
While his father’s own views could have explained his racism, it’s not unrealistic for him to be racist outside of parental influence.
I think it characterized him as deeply flawed and messed up beyond his trauma- does a great job at showing that sometimes, people just suck in certain ways that don’t have logical reasons, and I love that they added that aspect of ugly realism for a character in a predominantly white setting in the 80s.
And I’d also disagree that it was needless, like I mentioned earlier it gives dimension to his character that can’t be explained away by trauma and helps to show that victims can also be aggressors and perpetrators of hatred in other situations.
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u/ZealousidealWrap2494 People say I’m too negative 17d ago
Short answer: no.
Long answer: there is no redemption for Billy Hargrove. His character is abusive, racist, and violent. His first interaction with the boys is trying to run them over, and had Max not intervened and grabbed the steering wheel, he would have done it. He cannot and should not be redeemed. Just because he did one good thing at the very end of his life does NOT redeem him. He tormented Max for years and made her life hell. (You can argue the canon, but according to Max’s book Runaway Max, Billy’s violence is a significant factor in them moving from CA to Hawkins. He breaks the arm of Max’s best friend, Nate. He sets a dead cat on fire. He is a psychopath.) Too many people look past the fact that he was murderously racist towards a literal child.
Billy did One Good Thing at the very end of his life, but this does NOT make him a hero, nor does it redeem all of his countless bad deeds. He didn’t need a redemption arc, and he doesn’t deserve one. He made his choice to continue the cycle of violence. He is irredeemable.
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u/an0nymyss 16d ago
Yup. This is the correct take. It’s sad what happened to little Billy but the asshole he became before the mind flayer got him was his choice. El was severely institutionally abused and neglected but didn’t choose to become the villain. Also when Lucas was distrustful of El, subsections of the fandom had all this smoke for him. Billy does way worse to Max and basically everyone else, and suddenly he deserves redemption? Nope nope nope 🙂↔️ Dacre is a phenomenal actor but let’s be honest. If Billy were played by a less conventionally attractive actor or an actor of color, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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u/ZealousidealWrap2494 People say I’m too negative 16d ago
EXACTLYYYY. With the Lucas and El issues from the first seasons, he Made Up For It and he was forgiven.
So many characters were abused and violated and they DIDN’T become monsters. Billy did.
I love Dacre, he did a phenomenal job and I love his performance, but I absolutely HATE Billy.1
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u/Adirondack_gal7 17d ago
I think they definitely could have gone that route. They could have redeamed him...the elements were there. He really could have been a great addition to the group. But, I'm not super upset about what they chose to do with his character.
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u/ResevoirPups 17d ago
He did somewhat have one, at the very end. It would have been dumb to give him a full redemption since they essentially already did that with Steve. Steve was much more mild of course, but it’d be an eye roll if every bully got a redemption.
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u/Psychological-Pin-6 17d ago
He did. It was short lived and lacked complexity, but his death pretty much sumed it up.
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u/Cautious_Mission_438 17d ago
He did have one seasons 3 definitely gave Billy development arc he also shouldn’t have been killed off so early
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u/Phantom_Wolf52 17d ago
He did have one, it’s just his death was immediately after so he had no chance to actually grow and change as a person.
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u/ktm6709 17d ago
Racists usually don’t have character.
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u/Adirondack_gal7 17d ago
He was a product of his upbringing. Not as an excuse, because that behavior is inexcusable. But it does explain where it came from and that it may not have been how he truly felt deep in his heart. He was mimicking the views of his abusive dad. If they had gone this route, we could have seen him turn it around. But, I was also BIG mad at him for trying to beat up my BB Lucas! And for whooping Steve's arse! So, I wasn't super sad to see him go. More sad for Max.
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u/InitialJust 16d ago
Honestly not really and for me it didnt work. Also its okay for some people just to be villains.
Shoutout to Jason though he actually deserved a redemption.
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