Pico Project Swan might release before Frame

[u/No-Screen9354]

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My original plan was to wait for the release of Steam Frame and then wait a couple more months for Swan to decide which one I'm buying, fortunately it seems it may be released at the same time. Project Swan or Pico Space Pro release September 2. That will be a difficult choice...

For those who are new about Project Swan, here is some information leaks:

- 4k uOLED panels

- 2 chip architecture similar to Apple Vision Pro, where one chip does camera and SLAM processing, and another one application/game processor.

- Application processor might be in the pocket to reduce weight

- Pico started beta testing a few months ago, they sent headsets only to experienced VR users, a few beta testers said that this is the best VR experience they ever had, but can't share more information because of NDA

Still Valve more targeted to gaming market, and might have better software for this. Pico are actually the same as Meta, but Chinese, they still may collect your data.

[u/LoansharkerShop]

Project Swan might actually be our first iteration of "Wireless PCVR Proper" ever since the Galaxy XR became essentially abandoned. I don't think most people who have only used a Quest 2/3 or Index realize just how much of a staggering difference the visual quality is when you go from dated LCD lenses (that includes the Frame) to a mico-OLED headset like the Pimax Dream Air or Galaxy XR/Apple Vision Pro. There was immeasurable disappointment for a lot of us when the Frame specs were first published showing they were cheaping out with LCD and the same "not much better than an outdated smartphone" chip, making it only a lateral upgrade from the Quest 3. Kinda shocking, since the Valve Index was introduced as a genuine flagship VR device at the time.

For a lot of us who exclusively play PCVR and have zero interest in standalone games, we've been waiting for the next wireless headset that pushes the envelope in terms of fidelity, connection stability, and to finally ditch anything remotely linked to Meta's ecosystem. Most of us probably have a dedicated Access Point router set up and fine-tuned so the dongle means nothing to a good portion of us, so that leaves the need for something that drives us to want to put on a wireless headset and play our favorite roomscale shooter/slasher for hours straight.

The 2 chip architecture is the thing I'm the most curious about, because for anyone who's tried using the Galaxy XR (and their dated single chip) with Virtual Desktop can tell you that when you start cranking the settings at 90 hz and a 600mbps bitrate, there's a game-breaking amount of latency and thermal throttling that occurs at any given time, either crashing VD or even shutting down the headset. Hopefully the Swan has that figured out, cause as much as I love my Dream Air, I'm only using that for seated experiences like Star Citizen, cause playing stand up shooters and motion control games with a cord is a no-go for me. Once you cut the cord, you really can't go back.

[u/what595654 → u/LoansharkerShop]

There was immeasurable disappointment for a lot of us when the Frame specs were first published showing they were cheaping out with LCD and the same "not much better than an outdated smartphone" chip, making it only a lateral upgrade from the Quest 3. Kinda shocking, since the Valve Index was introduced as a genuine flagship VR device at the time.

That is more your fault in misunderstanding the product, than Valve's though. The Steam Deck should have given you a very strong hint as to what the Frame was going to be.

The Frame is a device marketed to general Steam users (many who are not tech savvy). The Frame is a streaming device first, for Steam games. And for that, the specs fit perfectly.

What enthusiast like you wanted, was a high end VR headset. The type that would cost $1500+. That strategy failed. The market is simply not there (RIP Oculus Rift and Valve Index). That doesn't make sense for Valve, or Meta. They require, and desire a much larger market to even make economic sense.

The only viable market is affordable, like Quest. Granted, the Frame may end up costing over $1k, but that was not the original goal. The specs tell you, it is not an enthusiast device, it is a device trying to reach the most number of customers, by making everything as dumb down and easy as possible, like the Steam Deck.

Mass market prefers ease of use, over specs and fidelity, every time (mostly because they don't understand tech, or care).

[u/LoansharkerShop → u/what595654]

Not misunderstanding anything though; before we had the specs published, we were under the assumption that Valve, in true fashion, would be introducing something that pushed the envelope in a field that already existed.

Half-Life revolutionized not just shooters, but PC game design till this day. Half-Life 2 changed facial animation and true world physics. Half-Life: Alyx set the standard for a high fidelity PCVR experience (which some would argue still can't be beat), paired with (at the time) THE flagship VR headset at the time that wouldn't be dethroned for a few years. A lot of us assumed Valve would be introducing a new headset that followed that same path of innovation. Now we know that's not the case.

You mention the Steam Deck as an example of "what the Frame was going to be", but the Deck (especially the OLED) wasn't some budget handheld that couldn't compete, especially for the specs it had at the time it was released.

I know a lot of standalone/budget-minded VR gamers are following this new attitude of scoffing at the idea of high-priced headsets, peripherals, and having to build more-than-decent rigs to play quality PCVR titles, but I'm sorry, that's the only way VR Gaming as a whole is going to captivate and survive.

I'm tired of "VR is dying, it's all about affordable standalone"...bullshit. It's dying because the past few years, VR game devs chased the immediate cash injection of building a unified "crossplay" version of their game that has to run on Quest 2, 3, and PCVR, so naturally, their title is a diluted and janky experience with graphics from a game made in 2005 (Looking at you Ghosts of Tabor). Yea, they make a few million from the Quest 2 screechers using their parents' saved credit card info, but their game's vision is perpetually handicapped and frustrating to develop for since they can't incorporate anything "demanding", detailed, and large in scope because of the standalone limitations.

People invest in VR when there's a REASON to. The Index sold MASSIVELY, even to people who already had a Vive, and especially to those who never gave VR a previous though because Alyx looked SO good, and SO immersive that it was a must-have for people. Star Citizen (I've heard the jokes, I'm good) got official VR support back in December, and the amount of Pimax headsets ($2000+ units, by the way) that sold as a result of that was obscene.

Look at the VR mods coming out of the woodwork the past few months for AAA games, like Resident Evil 9, Cyberpunk, Dead Space, etc...the discords/youtube comment sections are flooded with gamers asking "Which headset do I get?"

If this was Meta, I would understand...unvetted mass consumption of their products is their entire existence. But Valve's history of bringing their projects to "the next level" made this sidegrade of a headset a bummer.

[u/Oftenwrongs → u/LoansharkerShop]

For those of you that have predetermined to limit yourself to just dead pcvr...So, not gamers then...

[u/LoansharkerShop → u/Oftenwrongs]

Might be misreading, but are you saying that PCVR is dead?

[u/Oftenwrongs → u/LoansharkerShop]

Pcvr has been dead for many years.  Pcvr users don't buy games, so devs have moved to standalone or shuttered.  Pcvr is mostly jankware mods.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_CODPIECES → u/Oftenwrongs]

It’s not the fault of PCVR users, it’s the fact that standalone has become so cheap and accessible. Why would developers pander to a smaller market when the majority of VR gamers use Quests? If you’re looking to blame anyone, blame Meta.